Memoirs of Hitler aide could finally end Holocaust claims

Final Member of Hitler

www.telegraph.co.uk

Experts say his account of his time as Hitler's direct link to the SS could discount the claims of revisionists who have tried to claim the German leader knew nothing of the extermination programme. Right-wing historians have claimed the planning for the murder of six million Jews was carried out by SS chief Heinrich Himmler.
Mainstream historians believe it inconceivable that Hitler did not issue verbal directives about the mass killings in Darges' presence. Other courtiers, such as armaments minister Albert Speer and propaganda chief Josef Goebbels, had their diaries published post war wi

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 10/30/2009 by x2Strongx]

This is going to definitely fuel the whole thing that the holocaust never happened. Now, maybe he wasn't responsible for it at all. For some reason I kind of doubt it... but it's an interesting read non-the-less...

There was some funny things in there as well

e.g. -

In 1944, Darges' relationship with Hitler changed at a conference when Hitler ordered him to destroy a fly that buzzed around the room. Darges suggested that, as it was an "airborne pest," the job should go to the Luftwaffe staff officer, Nicolaus von Below. Enraged, Hitler dismissed Darges, yelling, "You're for the eastern front," and Darges was sent to combat.

I guess Hitler didn't have a sense of humor after all...

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 10/30/2009 by x2Strongx]

Heres a thier maybe the NWO its been in the making for a long time and thier has been a NWO all this time just been very sneaky until the last decade or so.

Maybe they set up Hitler to take the fall for the Holocaust and if this is true maybe Hitler was a great leader just trying to make his country better for his people.

Wow thats kind of crazy I mean look at what they can do know it wouldn't take much to start a rumor and say Hitler was doing the Holocost.

the NWO has been around since 1913 and probally even longer because its in the Revalation maybe aliens planed the future for us.

reply to post by slipknotrules2009


Wasn't it Churchill that said, "History is written by the victors"

History/Propaganda... it could go either way at anytime by any side I guess.

I say to my employees: Don't believe everything you hear and only half of what you see.

reply to post by x2Strongx


It's plausible that Hitler didn't knew about it. I mean, now we know that he had Parkinson and that it was getting worst through the years. In the final stages he was already with a dubious mental state.

I think it's not hard to make the step (knowing the kind of posture that Himmler, Goebbels and Speer had) claiming that Hitler didn't knew about it...

Some people find it funny that Churchill was *considered* a pervert (regarding woman), drunk, rude, and a serious smoker... And Hitler was a person who loved animals,was a vegetarian, and everyone on his close staff said he was a adorable person.

If this comes out to be true, we'll have a serious twist in History.

I mean, if you clean the responsability for the Holocaust off Hitler's back, then you have another leader that was fighting a World War. That will bring to the ground the idea that MANY people have regarding some countries.

It's not really going to change anything either way.

If Hitler didnt know what was going on he isnt suddenly going to become a saint. Rolling over Europe and all.

Not so much of a "twist" in history as a punchline:

"And while 6 million people were slaughtered he didnt even notice!!!! Woooo!!!" And a whimsical Hitler puts his hands on his head and laughs at what must have simply been a prank to make him look the fool. Oh, what fun.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


The problem is, there are a lot of people who think Hitler was the right guy for the job, and many people out there believe that we need another Hitler.

This is not my opinion nor my ideals. It's a fact. There are people (I'm not talking about neo-Nazis), "average joe" kind of people who actually start to think that Hitler wasn't that bad in punishing those who came into his country.

And if you make a step back, and actually start presenting to people what the German people and Hitler had passed by in the years before he was in power... People start to come close to Hitler. I have seen this happen to many people.

Untill now, people didn't take the step of ADMIRING Hitler because he had the Holocaust shadow on him.

If you take that out, Hitler becomes (to many people) a person who they can actually admire.

And with all the sudden "the History was written by the wrong people" topics coming up, with all the twist that some historical aspects have been suffering, even with Pearl Harbor...

...is that hard to believe that people might start to think "Oh, Hitler wasn't that bad. He was just fighting against all the injustice that the German people had suffered!"?

I don't think so.

And this could actually be dangerous.

I know this Hungarian guy and he told me this story. When the Red Army broke into Hungary in 1944 they murdered all the Jews in his town, they then put out through the media that the Germans had killed them! Don't know if it's factual but it has made me think about how much total blame for the holocaust can be blamed on the Germans alone.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
I know this Hungarian guy and he told me this story. When the Red Army broke into Hungary in 1944 they murdered all the Jews in his town, they then put out through the media that the Germans had killed them! Don't know if it's factual but it has made me think about how much total blame for the holocaust can be blamed on the Germans alone.

I believe, if you look it up, that the Hungarians, for the most part, killed their own jews. The Jews that survived the pogroms conducted by the Hungarian Fascist, Arrow Cross Party, and were then used by Himmler as 'hostages' to sell to the 'Zionists', were mostly Jewish refugees from other occupied territories. The Hungarian Jews, those born and raised there, were mostly rounded up, their possessions taken, and then murdered, by their former friends and neighbours. No orders or directions were issued by the Nazi Party to precipitate this action, the Arrow Cross Party acted purely on it's own initiative.

But I am sure, at the end of the war it suited them much better to blame the Red Army, though with Soviet occupation, I would assume that they reverted to blaming the Nazis.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

If Hitler didnt know what was going on he isnt suddenly going to become a saint. Rolling over Europe and all.


Who cares what he did to Europe they have kings and queens and think thier bloodline should live on Europe is the country trying to take over the world now.

Maybe he was fighting the NWO and they started the Holocaost and pinned it on him, then he was dead and couldn't answer any of the questions to clear his name.

From what I read Hitler was a great leader and maybe he was just trying to protect his people or its all bs.

We will never know the truth. Remeber our government lies just look at IRAQ that proves thier all liars doing whatever they want until we don't go along with it until the pull a FALSE FLAG.

reply to post by slipknotrules2009


Because conquering nation after nation and imposing strict fascism is a great way to stop globalization and global governance?

I'm sorry but I can't do enough mental gymnastics to make Hitler anti-NWO. Maybe in the way that he wanted to be head of his own NWO so he battled to stop the Bilderberg styled NWO?

It's like saying Napoleon was totally anti-NWO because he wanted to conquer the world.

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by x2Strongx

 

It's plausible that Hitler didn't knew about it. I mean, now we know that he had Parkinson and that it was getting worst through the years. In the final stages he was already with a dubious mental state.

No, it's absolutely implausible IMHO that he did not know. Have you ever lived in a fascist dictatorship? All political power is centralised and leads to the Fuehrer, Duce etc. He may not have given the order orally but in written form to Himmler who then took the necessary steps to bring the "final solution" into motion. But there is no doubt in my mind that he not only knew but personally either orally to Himmler or in written form ordered the extermination of all Jews and all other "sub-humans".

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by x2Strongx
Some people find it funny that Churchill was *considered* a pervert (regarding woman), drunk, rude, and a serious smoker... And Hitler was a person who loved animals,was a vegetarian, and everyone on his close staff said he was a adorable person.

Well, he was adorable, i.e. he had a lot of charisma and his people swallowed all his fascist propaganda, because of that charisma. Look, I can imagine some German peasant far out in the countryside not knowing about the holocaust and even that just barely, but Hitler? Get real! And it doesn't mean that fascists cannot be adorable in their private moments when they forget about their crooked ideology and just behave as simple human beings. While in the army, I had a Captain who was a complete fascist. Discussing politics with him was a disaster, but once we decided to leave politics out of our relation, we got along just fine. Just goes to show you that adorable in private moments does not mean that the man was incapable of ordering the holocaust. He did and that's the end of it. Oh, and revisionists, yeah, they love to twist history around for their sinister political purposes. They are fighting battles impossible to win in Europe, especially in Germany. Oh, and I was shown a documentary in German high school all about Nazi Germany and the extermination of the Jews. Oh and by the way, that Goebels guy he looked suspiciously Jewish to a lot of people in his time and I tend to agree.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by WalterRatlos]

Originally posted by x2Strongx

This is going to definitely fuel the whole thing that the holocaust never happened. Now, maybe he wasn't responsible for it at all.

What do you mean?
I read the article, and if anything, it seems to indicate the opposite reaction.

From the article:

Experts say his account of his time as Hitler's direct link to the SS could discount the claims of revisionists who have tried to claim the German leader knew nothing of the extermination programme.

Anyway, I agree with one of the posters (didn't read the entire thread yet - sorry) who said it was not entirely "implausible" that he really did not know. Only, I would rephrase it: it is not implausible that he never wanted to hear anything about it, and that he did not acknowledge - not even to himself - that it was happening.
(Stranger things have happened throughout history!)

Not that it matters very much...










[edit on 31-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by x2Strongx


This is total crap - Hitler was a lunatic who wanted people dead and he engineered the whole thing.

What that says about the world is horrific.

Was Hitler a horrible dude? Sure! Did he think the Jews should be treated like crap? Sure! Were six million Jews killed during WWII? I don't think so...

Originally posted by Vanitas
Only, I would rephrase it: it is not implausible that he never wanted to hear anything about it, and that he did not acknowledge - not even to himself - that it was happening.

And, if I may say so, a brilliant piece of re-phrasing. From all the accounts that I have read, no one has worded the situation quite as well and as succinctly as you just have. He refused to discuss it with Himmler, and if you look at the accounts of Himmler's personal aides, it is clear that Himmler was told to just do the job. Such was the Fuhrerprinzip, that was how things worked in Hitler's Germany.

It should be made all the more clearer, when and if, Goebbels diaries from late 1941 onwards are published. They were found a few years ago in Russia's archives, but have yet to make any appearance. I cannot help but wonder what they contain that is holding the process up, but either way, there is not a historian of that period that doesn't appreciate quite how important those diaries are to our understanding of Hitler's actions.




[edit on 31-10-2009 by shamhat]

reply to post by shamhat


Wow... that's awfully nice of you to say. Thank you!
(I try to give every situation - and the individuals involved - their due consideration. Stereotyping is of no use to anyone.)

It's funny - but hardly surprising! - you should mention Goebbels...
I was going to mention him myself, but thought it might be too long-winded a reply in the context of this thread.
Many people don't know that not only was Goebbels the one who practically coined the "Heil Hitler" salute (starting with one of his articles published in 1923), but - much more importantly - constructed and propagated the notion of the "unwitting" Fuehrer.
(The saying "If only the Fuehrer knew!" wasn't only popular among the people, but was - so I am told - actually hung in offices and other public places - to remind them, I assume, that any wrong doing they may witness would not be condoned by the Fuehrer.)

But - this is a strictly personal impression (gathered from books such as Reuth's very good biography of Goebbels) - I believe he went even further than just protecting Hitler's image: I believe he actually tried to "protect" him and prevent him from hearing anything unsavoury.

And, like yourself, I assume (even though you did not mention it explicitly here), I was struck by the odd situation surrounding the Wannsee conference, for example. But that's a long story, so let's leave it at that.

I think it was Speer who said it best (speaking of himself, of course, but I think it could be extended to Hitler): "I knew enough to avoid knowing anything further."
(My paraphrase.)









[edit on 31-10-2009 by Vanitas]

Adolph Hitler was a megalomaniac. History is not written to portray him that way - he WAS that way.

British PM Chamberlain attempted to appease these thugs, going back home with a promise from Hitler that Germany, after the Austrian Anschluss and the seizing of the Sudetenland, had no more territorial claims in Europe. He called it 'Peace in our time.'

Of course, on 1 September 1939, Germany invaded Poland. Later, both they and Russia subdivided the nation between themselves. Following the regular Wehrmacht came the Einsatzgruppen. They were terroristic in nature and had free range to kill indiscriminately anyone whom they felt posed a threat to the occupation and new order.

Germany later betrayed Stalin and the Soviets by invading Russia as well. Papa Joe had not too long prior carried out a purge in the Red Army's officer corps and when the German Army was suddenly in his back yard, his forces were nearly leaderless.

Nazi Germany was the aggressor, along with Fascist Italy. Kristallnacht and the holocaust are not a fairytales. Hitler and the Nazis WERE the NWO of their day. They initiated a wholesale slaughter across wide breadth of Europe.

You can't make this stuff up and you can't bring the dead back to life for political expediencies.

Originally posted by Vanitas
But - this is a strictly personal impression (gathered from books such as Reuth's very good biography of Goebbels) - I believe he went even further than just protecting Hitler's image: I believe he actually tried to "protect" him and prevent him from hearing anything unsavoury.

I'm an admirer of Goebbels, if one is allowed to be such a thing, and his diaries (the ones currently available) shed enormous light on 'Hitler's World'. I don't agree with his racism, but at the time there was nothing unusual about it, most of the western world, or the elite thereof felt that way about Jews, Goebbels views are merely recorded for posterity in intricate (and vain glorious) detail, not in long forgotten anecdotes.

His 'worship', and it can be described as nothing short of 'love', of Hitler, did extend to protecting him, but by the time of Wannsee and the 'holocaust' itself, even he was excluded from the inner-circle around Hitler. Which is why part two of his diaries are so important. The role of protector by this time was filled by Bormann, and Bormann seems, as things progressed, to know better than to let certain details reach Hitler. It was Bormann who met with Himmler and checked all reports before they reached Hitler. But as you say, this does not mean that Hitler did not know, it is far more indicative that he did not want to know and was unwilling to discuss it.

Originally posted by Vanitas
And, like yourself, I assume (even though you did not mention it explicitly here), I was struck by the odd situation surrounding the Wannsee conference, for example. But that's a long story, so let's leave it at that.

You assume correctly and lets, I agree, leave it at that.

reply to post by shamhat


Oh - maybe you could start a thread about him, because I'd really like to discuss a few (really just a few) things about Goebbels.

Personally, I find it striking that as late as 1920 or 1921 he was - as per Reuth - still composing little scatologically humourous pamphlets in rhymes involving the swastika and a chamber pot. (The activity requiring a chamber pot rhymes with swastika in child talk, in case anyone is wondering...)

??!

The transition seems almost unfathomable.
But then I am reminded of other fulminant conversions...

LATER EDIT
(mostly for the benefit of those who like to believe some people are just born rabid criminals, etc.):

This famous excerpt from a letter Goebbels wrote on February 17, 1919, to his girlfriend Anka Stalherm (here quoted from the English translation of Reuth' biography) speaks - literally - volumes about how complex the human psyche - and the history it drives - really is:

"You know, I don't particularly like this exaggerated anti-Semitism. [...]
I wouldn't say the Jews are my best friends but I think we won't get rid of them with insults and polemical attacks or even pogroms, and if we could, that would be both highly ignoble and unworthy of decent human beings." *
(The emphasis is mine.)

Again: ??!

It is also very poignant, I suppose - certainly striking - that at the age of twenty, I believe, he wrote the more or less exact prefiguration of his own destiny: Judas Iscariot.
When you read it and compare it with the facts of his own quest, the analogy is impressive.
(I could talk about it for a long time... but I won't. )










*The translation of the same passage in David Irving's book about Goebbels is slightly different, mostly in its tone:

"As you know, I can’t stand this exaggerated antisemitism' [...].
‘I can’t claim that many of my best friends are Jews, but my view is you don’t get rid of them by huffing and puffing, let alone by pogroms—and if you could do so that would be both highly ignoble and unworthy.’







[edit on 31-10-2009 by Vanitas]