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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by Gordi The Drummer
reply to post by ecoparity
 


Hi Ecoparity,

I was under the impression that the currently known 2009 "swine flu" was Type A Influenza only?
(A combination of Type A Avian, Type A Human, Type A Swine (pig) from N.America, and Type A Swine (Pig) from Asia/Europe)

Is this info wrong?
regards,
G


That's correct but the virus has the infection vectors for both A and B influenza. Without getting into all the really complicated biotech the flu virus has two sets of connections it can make with host cells which are labeled as sub types A and B (there's also a C subtype from what I understand but A and B are the norm and I think type C is actually A+B).

This variant of swine flu currently in pandemic has the ability to make all of those connections so a vaccine which only targets type A would not stop it, the vaccine has to be able to stop all the connections and also be recognized by the immune system. It's like training a security guard to recognize the bad guy no matter which door he comes to - a type A only vaccine would leave the other doors unguarded.




posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by waterdoctor
IMO I think that the world has pretty much decided to let the people of that country live or die without much in the way of outside help.

If some day the general public in Ukraine will come to the same conclusion, nasty things can happen. It is in the interest of western countries to show at least some compassion for the largest country of Europe.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by JJay55
 


No the airports are open...all my friends have left...there are only 7 rooms occupied in my hostel out of more than 200

Cool. You are like an imbedded agent that is feeding info from the inside.
Can I ask a few personal questions? What is your general health? Do you have any symptoms now? Do you have a stockpile of food and personal supplies? Are you male or female? Do any of the others in the 7 rooms have symptoms? How old are you? Who do you report to? Who is aware that you are there?



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

Originally posted by waterdoctor
IMO I think that the world has pretty much decided to let the people of that country live or die without much in the way of outside help.

If some day the general public in Ukraine will come to the same conclusion, nasty things can happen. It is in the interest of western countries to show at least some compassion for the largest country of Europe.

Government won't prevent genocide. They will clean up after it but they won't prevent it, as shown throughout history.
But this is a good example to use in education. Government is there to make policy, and hire agencies to provide information on making policy. That's about all they do. They don't really provide much.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

Originally posted by waterdoctor
IMO I think that the world has pretty much decided to let the people of that country live or die without much in the way of outside help.

If some day the general public in Ukraine will come to the same conclusion, nasty things can happen. It is in the interest of western countries to show at least some compassion for the largest country of Europe.

Government won't prevent genocide. They will clean up after it but they won't prevent it, as shown throughout history.
But this is a good example to use in education. Government is there to make policy, and hire agencies to provide information on making policy. That's about all they do. They don't really provide much.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Gordi The Drummer
So, quick summary of the current situation in Ukraine...

It looks like approx 70 officially confirmed dead from "flu-like" symptoms.
Approx 1/4 million infected with cold/flu-like symptoms.

An official (Deputy Health Minister) announcing that this is NOT the same strain of H1N1 as USA/Mexico, therefore is likely to be a mutated strain.

Many of the dead appear to have indications of viral pnemonia, possibly as a result of weakened immune systems from the initial mutated H1N1 attack.

The (likely) specific mutation, (or any other cause) has not been identified yet.

Is this a fair summary? Anything missed out? Anything to add?

G

Good post and a fair summary, and one where it's better to quote all of it than just use the "reply to" button...

I'd like to add a little about the situation across the border in Slovakia. Going through that country is one of the most direct ways for any people who want to head west: Slovakia > Czech Republic > Germany > wherever you want from there.

Back in this post a couple of pages back, I posted a report from a reliable Slovakian media source which talks about what two of their top epidemiologists in the eastern Slovakian region are saying.

In summary, they have signs of the normal start of the seasonal flu season in eastern Slovakia. No swine flu. They have not found any cases of flu at variance with the typical seasonal flu. There is no indication that an epidemic is developing. The public are not greatly concerned. People are crossing the border to and from Ukraine but there's no panic.

But most important: a senior Slovak epidemiologist has called for people to get their regular, seasonal flu vaccine shot.

I commented that I found this interesting but as no-one has responded to the post then I'd like to say why.

If there was any concern among these medical experts in eastern Slovakia that there is an epidemic of swine flu just across their border in Ukraine, wouldn't they be calling for their people to get a swine flu shot? I would have thought so. But they're not. Only the seasonal vaccine.

That suggests to me that what is going on in Ukraine might be something for which the swine flu vaccine is not especially effective, so meanwhile, it's a wise move (in the experts' opinion) for Slovaks to get their regular flu shot as they are having cases of seasonal flu at the rate of 1500 per 100,000 inhabitants already. (Which is nowhere near epidemic levels, by the way.) I suppose the logic is that at least if they are protected from the seasonal flu then they may be less affected by something different that could come along soon.

I personally do not get flu shots and have not since I was old enough to legally refuse them. But the medical standpoint of an epidemiologist is different I expect.

Any opinions? I just find it a little strange, that's all.



On another note, someone asked how we would know if or when this Ukrainian epidemic has spread -- if it does. Well, I expect that if it starts to break out here in a big way, you'll hear about it. My wife still has all her contacts in the health care profession from years of working with them so we'd hear about it from them, even if it didn't make the news. But to be honest, the last time we had a serious epidemic here in the mid-1990's, schools were closed nation-wide for two weeks. And since then, we have had regional closures, all fully reported in our media. So in that respect, our authorities are reasonably open about things like this.

If it's extremely virulent and lethal, well -- that's another story. I don't know how much they will tell us under those circumstances because it simply hasn't happened before.

But I can say this: just from observing my local surroundings each day I'll be able to tell if there's anything major going on. Providing that I don't come down with it myself, that is.

Short answer: you'll know about it. Be sure of that. If our local msm won't spill the beans (and here in Prague they were on this Ukraine thing right away), there's enough on ATS who are in and around this part of the world and some of us will get the news out. We know you'd do that for us. And in something like this we're ultimately all in it together anyway, so we're glad to return the favor.

Mike



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


Well healthwise generally ok, few coughs here and there and had a minor cold previously. Yes i do have stockpile of food for 2 weeks. I am a guy, med student at (edited out). Yes one guy is seriously ill. I gave him one out of the 2 Tamiflu i received from the Polish border yesterday. Full flu symptoms. I am (edited out). Only my family and )edited out)know about me and have my personal number.

And right now me and my 3 friends have taken the decision to leave. We will be going to the airport in 30 mins and confirm our return ticket for (edited out) Will let you know when I return.

[edit on 3/11/09 by asen_y2k]



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by asen_y2k
 


Good luck. I wish you well.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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Mods can delete this post. It's no longer required.

Thanks,

Mike




[edit on 3/11/09 by JustMike]



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

Originally posted by waterdoctor
IMO I think that the world has pretty much decided to let the people of that country live or die without much in the way of outside help.

If some day the general public in Ukraine will come to the same conclusion, nasty things can happen. It is in the interest of western countries to show at least some compassion for the largest country of Europe.


I have plenty of compassion but that's not going to save the people of Ukraine. It's possible a great many of them are going to die and if there is a mutation of the virus (which is still not proven, they don't even have the equipment needed to determine that in the country) then we could see a complete and total collapse of the medical system and society in general there.

You can point your finger at everyone else but the simple truth is the government of Ukraine chose to ignore this pandemic and pretend it wasn't coming. They took no steps to prepare for it in any way and now it's too late. With a quarter million infected and growing there's nothing anyone can do for them now even if we tried.

The Ukraine is like a flooded compartment in a ship, the only action left now is to seal off that compartment before it floods the other compartments around it and possibly sinks the ship.

If people want to find a conspiracy so bad then look into why Ukraine chose not to prepare for this. Did the people there choose not to be vaccinated or did the government make that choice for them? That's what I'd like to know - who made that decision on behalf of the millions of people who may end up paying for it with their lives?

Realistically its already too late to isolate the country so even if they seal the borders it won't matter. In every pandemic simulation run to date they can't push the red button fast enough to stop the spread. If there's a mutation at work there it will be everywhere else in a week or so. The longer it takes for the WHO to determine if that's the case or not the further it can potentially spread.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


Hey Mike if anything goes wrong, I will text you.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by asen_y2k
 


Okay, man. Please check your u2u's. I'll have my phone with me at all times.

Best regards and stay low,

Mike



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


Just out of curiousity...If the swine flu is able to make connections with both types A and B does that mean one needs both the h1n1 vaccine and the seasonal flu vaccine to be fully protected from h1n1 or is the h1n1 vaccine enough?



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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Poland Gov will not buySwine flu vacs.


www.thenews.pl...



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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By the way, here is the link of the thread I started in regards to how I think the web bot predictions might relate to this Ukraine epidemic, in case anyone is interested.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by ahemot

Originally posted by waterdoctor
IMO I think that the world has pretty much decided to let the people of that country live or die without much in the way of outside help.

If some day the general public in Ukraine will come to the same conclusion, nasty things can happen. It is in the interest of western countries to show at least some compassion for the largest country of Europe.


I have plenty of compassion but that's not going to save the people of Ukraine. It's possible a great many of them are going to die and if there is a mutation of the virus (which is still not proven, they don't even have the equipment needed to determine that in the country) then we could see a complete and total collapse of the medical system and society in general there.

You can point your finger at everyone else but the simple truth is the government of Ukraine chose to ignore this pandemic and pretend it wasn't coming. They took no steps to prepare for it in any way and now it's too late. With a quarter million infected and growing there's nothing anyone can do for them now even if we tried.

The Ukraine is like a flooded compartment in a ship, the only action left now is to seal off that compartment before it floods the other compartments around it and possibly sinks the ship.

If people want to find a conspiracy so bad then look into why Ukraine chose not to prepare for this. Did the people there choose not to be vaccinated or did the government make that choice for them? That's what I'd like to know - who made that decision on behalf of the millions of people who may end up paying for it with their lives?

Realistically its already too late to isolate the country so even if they seal the borders it won't matter. In every pandemic simulation run to date they can't push the red button fast enough to stop the spread. If there's a mutation at work there it will be everywhere else in a week or so. The longer it takes for the WHO to determine if that's the case or not the further it can potentially spread.

I hate these times; are we all doomed? If the population of the world dwindles and we have to rebuild lets do it right this time.
I promise that if it becomes a doomsday scenerio I will fight to live so I can help rebuild a better world.
We are sinking only because we may have to begin again. Maybe it is time for a recycle of earth so this time we care about the people,and the earth over money and poltics. I am not I saying I want this to happen but something good MUST come out of it. IF it doesn't we lost as a civilzation!



[edit on 3-11-2009 by dreamseeker]



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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Update to my previous post of deaths in Irpen, a small suburb of Kyiv.

In Irpen's State Tax College, 2 students and 1 lecturer died last week. The incident involved 10 people, who got severely ill. Since Irpen has no appropriate health facilities, the decision was taken to move them to the hospital in another city - Buchansk. However, the medical help came to late and three people have died.

informburo.org...



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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If you have the time this is a good discussion of the current state of what is happening with the N1H1 in Ukraine.

rense.gsradio.net:8080...

DR. Niman talking about whats going on.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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www.who.int...


3 November 2009 -- According to the Ministry of Health of the Ukraine, the country has now recorded more than 250,000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care. As of 2 November, 70 deaths from acute respiratory illness have been reported.

Regions in western Ukraine continue to show the highest rates of acute respiratory illness/influenza-like illness. The level of activity in the Kyiv area is also increasing rapidly.

Laboratory testing in Ukraine has confirmed pandemic H1N1 influenza virus in samples taken from patients in two of the most affected regions. As the pandemic virus has rapidly become the dominant influenza strain worldwide, it can be assumed that most cases of influenza in Ukraine are caused by the H1N1 virus.

As elsewhere, WHO strongly recommends early treatment with the antiviral drugs, oseltamivir or zanamivir, for patients who meet treatment criteria, even in the absence of a positive laboratory test confirming H1N1 infection.

At the request of the government, a multi-disciplinary team of nine experts has been deployed by WHO and arrived in Kyiv yesterday evening. Discussions with the Minister of Health were held this morning to brief the team.

Team members will now begin field investigations to characterize the clinical and epidemiological features of the outbreak. Work will initially begin in Lviv region, where reported numbers of cases showing severe manifestations of acute respiratory illness have been especially high. Two virologists on the team have started working at the National Influenza Centre and the laboratories of the Central Sanitary and Epidemiological Station in Kyiv to provide diagnostic support.

Samples sent by the Ministry of Health were received today by the WHO Collaborating Centre for Reference and Research on Influenza, Mill Hill in London, UK. The laboratory will conduct confirmatory tests and further characterize the virus.

Many questions remain to be answered. The outbreak in Ukraine may be indicative of how the virus can behave in the northern hemisphere during the winter season, particularly in health care settings typically found in Eastern Europe.

Given the potential significance of this outbreak as an early warning signal, WHO commends the government of Ukraine for its transparent reporting and open sharing of samples.

WHO continues to recommend no closing of borders and no restrictions on international travel, including to Ukraine. Experience shows that such measures will not stop further spread of the virus.
.



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