Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by argentus
Hungary hasn't necessarily been "spared", however I agree with you that reported numbers do seem low. Also note that the above site hasn't updated the Ukraine (and presumably other) numbers since Saturday.

RSOE is a Hungarian site. Also, the numbers are false, and even lower, close to zero in Hungary. The mentioned H1N1 cases even the death reports were not H1N1 at all. I live here in Hungary, so I can confirm the numbers are completely false. The death of those four people wasn't killed by H1N1 and one of them was also confirmed by the officials that the autopsy proved, it wasn't H1N1. But somehow they forgot to draw that one out, because 4 looks better then the official 3.

And no. We don't have anything in the last days, not a single case. Only the propaganda goes over and over again to take the vaccine as we have 6 million for you, but the Hungarians are refusing it completely. We're not stupid. No one is taking it.

So the question remained... why my country is spared by the virus?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Sharrow]

reply to post by Sharrow


Here's my doom theory.

It didn't miss a country, Ukraine is the origin of this new virus. The "mild" h1n1 virus was just a trojan horse to start a media circus on vaccination. All the people that were easily brainwashed are in effect "branded" by the vaccine, especially pregnant women or parents with very young children. My guess would then be that his vaccine is not really meant for the h1n1 virus but instead for this new Ukrainian virus which according to the latest news is much more deadlier.

So to conclude. TPTB thinks all the rebels that didn't take the vaccine will die from this hardcore virus and they will be left with vaccinated sheeple and their newer generation of vaccinated children which they have full control of. Quite a brilliant plan if by some miracle it was true but...

TPTB forgot that nature provides the cure for anything. Stock up on master tonic, youtube it.

Anyway that's my two cents of doom.

RSOE EDIS - World Map w/figures on running banner

reply to post by asen_y2k

Wikipedia

The Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs (Ukrainian: Міністерство внутрішніх справ України, Ministerstvo vnutrishnikh sprav Ukrayiny, MVS) is the national police authority of Ukraine. It is a centralized agency headed by a Minister of Internal Affairs (currently Yuriy Lutsenko), who is not only a formal member of the Ukraine's Cabinet of Ministers, but also the actual commander of the country's police.

Originally posted by broli
reply to post by Sharrow

 

It didn't miss a country, Ukraine is the origin of this new virus.

It brake out four days ago in Ukraine and Romania, even more. It would be here already as many foreign workers are coming across our borders. But here, we have nothing at all. Also it's reached Poland, which is a bit far from here, toward the north, but again, it skipped Hungary. How?

Check the map. Ukraine is on the northern east border of my country. Romania is on the southern east border. Poland is up to the far north.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Sharrow]

reply to post by Sharrow


Thanks for your reply Sharrow. Yes, I realize RSOE is in Budapest. They were pretty accurate -- at least insofar as the WHO/CDC numbers during the first wave earlier in the year (my opinion, as one who followed them). I didn't realize that they OVERreported numbers....... I think all agencies have underreported, primarily due to the logistics of testing, qualification and documentation of groups as they are infected.

Even the WHO proclaimed loud and clear that their sampling methodology was to test one or two individuals within a demographic and assume for the rest. As with the cases in Mexico, the deaths and intial infection counts weren't very accurate, until much later.

I'm curious -- and this isn't a challenge, just a question -- what makes you believe that RSOE is overreporting in Hungary? Forgive me if I've misunderstood. Just want good data, like everyone.

reply to post by asen_y2k


asen_y2k ... I've been following this thread closely and have to admit I'm somewhat confused by the conflicting reports that have been presented by members within this thread ... particularly concerning the degree to which the government/authorities/police/etc have or have not imposed additional restrictions on the L'viv populace. Obviously reports are very sporadic and we have to rely on insider reporting and first hand observations such as provided by yourself.

You mentioned a few posts back that you and your friends were detained & searched by police who were armed with AK47's, batons, pepper spray and wearing body armour. The impression given by you was that these officers were quite agitated (shouting & arm waving).

I'm sure that myself and many other posters would be most interested in a visual of any unusual police/military/civilian activity that you can see happening around you that is compltely out of the ordinary from what you normally see on a day to day basis. Obviously from your reports, there must be quite a bit of this extraordinary activity happening around ... after all, you stated that all you did was step outside your hostel and these police officers jumped all over you.

So, I'm just wondering if you'd be able to use a mobile phone camera or digital camera and take some photo's of what you see happening around you right now and upload/post them to this thread ... I'm assuming that there is no current law/restriction that prohibits you from taking such photo's ... and with your uni studies closed temporarily, you must have lots of free time on your hands at the moment.

As they say (and paraphrasing), a picture is worth a thousand ATS unsubstantiated and guesswork posts ! Such images would go a long way to confirming or falsifying many of the rumours being generated in this thread.

Thanks in advance and looking forward to seeing some of those pics very soon.

Originally posted by argentusI'm curious -- and this isn't a challenge, just a question -- what makes you believe that RSOE is overreporting in Hungary?

RSOE is working for the government. We have a great extreme political situation here and we're not believing the government at all as they're lying to us in the last years, but we know that and they can't hide their tracks. They're trying to create fear, but we know when they're lying. When we had proofs about their H1N1 lies, as more then 85% of my people supports the fight again the H1N1, i.e. doctors, and when even the government media is made great mistakes in their reports, and we learned it, they stopped to create false numbers and create false death reports via the media. That's the reason why the official numbers are not risen at all. They realized, their lies are not working here. Here, they rather adhere to their power, then to make business with the H1N1. For the government, one more mistake and a civil war will be on their hands. So they're not even try to risk anything until the next year elections. Almost all government party is way under 10%. The governing party's support is less than 10%, their allies is less then 1%.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Sharrow]

reply to post by Sharrow


Okay, Sharrow, thanks for the information.

Be safe.

reply to post by vita eternus


Yes I understand what you mean and being a ATS member for 2 years now I know pictures proove a lot. But I hope you can understand my situation. 3 policemen surrounding us and one in the car is not a situation where I could raise the phone and click a pic. All I could do was send a sms at that time to Mike(ATS member) to report on ATS that we can be arrested. Next time I will try to take pics from far if I see these guys.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by vita eternus

 

Yes I understand what you mean and being a ATS member for 2 years now I know pictures proove a lot. But I hope you can understand my situation. 3 policemen surrounding us and one in the car is not a situation where I could raise the phone and click a pic. All I could do was send a sms at that time to Mike(ATS member) to report on ATS that we can be arrested. Next time I will try to take pics from far if I see these guys.

I understand completely that being interrogated by police is NOT an appropriate time to start taking pics !

But pics taken during your normal daily activities of being on the streets, in the town, shopping, etc would go a long way to giving us all a better idea of the conditions you're experiencing and reporting to us.
Those pics would be even more valuable to us here on ATS considering that the western news media are currently doing virtually zero reporting on the Ukrainian situation and development.

I know that if I was in your situation, I'd be doing whatever I could to get as much evidence (reports & visual) sent up to others here on ATS and help create a more accurate and realistic overview of whats happening in your location. We could then use that info and compare it against what little mainstream media reports we occasionally get.

First report showed up on local news source today... picked up from the AP...

If the AP has picked up the story, we should start seeing it in general MSM now, though it appears to be a very general overview of the situation. Not a lot of details.

Ukraine's Health Ministry said Monday that 67 people in the nation of 40 million have died of flu, but did not say how many of those deaths were related to swine flu. Worldwide, outbreaks of regular seasonal flu claim 50,000 lives each year.

Nevertheless, all schools have been closed for a week across Ukraine, even in the capital, Kiev, where there have been no confirmed cases of swine flu. In western Ukraine, local authorities advised people to travel only when necessary, a Health Ministry spokeswoman said.

All outdoor markets have been closed in the western region of Lviv, where the governor also urged cinemas, cafes, nightclubs and theaters to shut down until further notice.

Some observers, including the speaker of the parliament, Vladimir Litvin, suggested that these measures are the result of political wrangling ahead of the country's presidential election in January. The pivotal vote could overturn the 2004 Orange Revolution that swept a pro-Western government to power. "We are seeing a political competition to see who will be the first to lead this process (of fighting swine flu)," Litvin said, according to the UNIAN news agency.

After receiving the shipment of 300,000 doses of Tamiflu at Kiev's Borispol airport, Tymoshenko said her government plans to increase its hoard of the drug by another 300,000 to 950,000 doses. "This is the supply that will reliably protect Ukraine," Tymoshenko said, ITAR-Tass news agency reported.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

Holy Hell - this is a major epidemic, PEOPLE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS. WHY is this being hidden? Why isn't THIS on the news? If they wanted to impose scare tactics, STICK THIS ON FOX NEWS and see how many people become scared then. God Help us all. Only he can... I don't know what the crap this world is up to, but sometimes I'm horrified to know that I'm in it and the things I may have to witness and endure during my life time...

what if we find out tomorrow? since the Govt (US)/media are hiding this ... we are going to eventually find out and they are aware of that... what if the situation in Ukraine turns out to be a little more than some of us expected ... ? (sorry i hate when people make predictions but all i am doing is rambling but just want to put it thought)

Black Tuesday? economy tanks we find out about the situation in Ukraine Flase/flag to aviod panic/riots quarantine ... trying to put some pieces together to see a broader picture ..

please dont riducule me... i am not saying this is going to happen at all... as i said just trying to see where this Ukraine piece fits ..


Be safe out fellow ATSers that are close to this one ..

Originally posted by nikiano

The pneumococcal vaccine should not be given out indiscriminantly....it is only recommended in a small group of people; people who are immunocompromised, and people who are missing a spleen. Plus, you can only take it twice in your life....revaccination more than once is not recommended.

Actually, if you're under the age of 64 you only need it once, but after that they recommend it every five to six years.

Plus, remember, there are risks associated with EVERY vaccine. Here are some of the more serious risks from the pneumococal vaccine:

Asthenia

Guillain-Barre syndrome

Paresthesia

Radiculopathy

Hematologic: Hemolytic anemia, Thrombocytopenia

Immunologic: Anaphylactoid reaction, Angioedema, Serum sickness due to drug

This is true. People need to make careful, informed decisions on the basis of their own personal risk analysis.

Plus, the pneumococcal vaccine only protects against the most common cocci that causes pneumonia....this infection they are seeing in Ukraine is said to be "atypical" (caused by an atypical organism) which means the vaccine probably wouldn't protect against the bugs anyway. So, you would just be risking serious side effects for no reason.

Perhaps, however we still have no definite confirmation on what exactly we're dealing with. It could still simply be influenza either alone and/or with secondary bacterial infections, including typical pneumococcal pneumonia. It wasn't an atypical pathogen at work in Mexico that killed all those people, after all (at least not one that I'm aware of.) It was H1N1 combined with poor medical care and living standards, and, most likely, a high incidence of secondary bacterial pneumonia.

The "atypical" descriptor arose because there were reports (how many we don't know) of so-called hemorrhagic pneumonia and because some tests were apparently negative for type A influenza. That isn't conclusive evidence of an atypical pathogen necessarily, though (although it certainly could be.)

We still don't know what we're dealing with in Ukraine one way or another, and won't for several days probably at minimum.

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Guess what...police are imposing quarantine. They had AK 47 guns and bullet proof jackets, batons and pepper spray on them. Caught us right outside the hostel, asked us what we were doing outside. We explained them about the meds. They did a full body search, detained us at the spot for 30mins. One guy did not have his id, he got arrested and taken to the station.

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

This type of event seems plausible to me. The public is asked to remain in their homes, until further notice, but media does not necessarily report an official quarantine. Then when someone steps outside at night they are confronted by 'police' asking questions, searches, etc..We can only hope that this type of event does not spread and is isolated in that area.
Asen, wishing you the best.

reply to post by AceWombat04


Yes, it lasts only 5 years, but according to the manufacturer, you should not take it more than twice in a life time.

That's why you should not use it unless you absolutely have to. Why? Let's say you take it now as a preventative when you are younger...then it wears off in 5 years. Then, you take it again, as a preventative for the next epidemic. Then you get old. You get cancer. You get immunocompromised....you need it again....oops. Sorry, can't have it. You already took it twice when you were younger.

The max you are supposed to take it in a life is twice. Here is the exact quote from the package insert:

"Because data are insufficient concerning the safety of the vaccine when administered 3 or more times, revaccination following a second dose is not routinely recommended."

And like you said, we still don't know what we're dealing with....so it's never a good idea to over-vaccinate, especially when you don't know what you're dealing with.

Also, in the health care field, when they say "atypical pneumonia" they usually mean atypical organisms, such as mycoplasma, legionella, chlaymidia, etc.. They treat it with different antibiotics than typical pneumonia. These organisms, and other atypical organisms, are not prevented by the pneumococcal vaccine.

Obviously, we're not talking about typical "atypical pneumonia" in the Ukraine right now, but it is atypical, compared to what they usually see.

But also according to the package insert, the only forms of pneumonia that it is effective against are those caused by Strep pneumonia.

From the package insert:
"It consists of a mixture of highly purified capsular polysaccharides from the 23 most prevalent or invasive pneumococal types of Streptococcus pneumonieae, including the six serotypes that most frequently cause invasive drug resistant pneumococcal infections among children and adults in the United States."

See....it just prevents against Strep pneumoniae. I highly doubt that what is causing the bleeding, liquified lungs in the Ukraine or in Mexico was strep pneumoniae.


edit to add:

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is I wouldn't go off recommending that people start getting the pneumonia vaccine because it only protects against one bacteria (strep pneumonia), and it doesn't protect against viruses, and with any vaccine, it also carries a lot of risks. Until we know what kind of pneumonia these people are getting, it's not a good idea.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

I suspect this has already been brought up earlier in the thread - I just can't go back through the 90 pages --- but - does anyone think the severity of the situation is being manipulated in Ukraine to effect the outcome of the election? Maybe even cancel it?


going gently,
G.

reply to post by Granton


Definitely yes. That's exactly what this is about and what I actually have been saying all those 90 pages throughout this thread , but of course don't take my word for it, look it up yourself and decide yourself.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Hi Asen, how are you holding up there? Got new heater already?

Tip for you for these situations with local police / officials ...bribe them off, money money money, that's what they want and they are looking for. And please be safe, never go to the station with them until you really have to, most likely you don't have to if you have done nothing serious, you can always buy yourself out. I'm pretty sure you know this already though if you have been living in there for a while.

Take care and be safe.