Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Ok good news for me...got a pack of tamiflu, vitamins and mask and anti cold meds, sent from Poland.
Guess what...police are imposing quarantine. They had AK 47 guns and bullet proof jackets, batons and pepper spray on them. Caught us right outside the hostel, asked us what we were doing outside. We explained them about the meds. They did a full body search, detained us at the spot for 30mins. One guy did not have his id, he got arrested and taken to the station.

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

I have relatives in Ukraine, specifically in Crimea and Kiev, and from what I hear from them this does appear to be overhyped. Perhaps the hype is associated with approaching elections, but so far it is not clear who stands to benefit from it. But what is clear is that this already spiralled out into a political debate with plenty of mud slinging. There is no widespread panic but people are noticeably concerned in select regions. This is about the time when regular flu and flu-related illnesses arise in the region, and in Ukraine just as in Russia some flu seasons can be pretty severe even without any special strains. So far the numbers of sick and dead aren't really extraordinary.

Also neighboring countries, especially Russia and Belarus don't appear too concerned, at least yet. No travel restrictions or even warnings have been made, and there does not appear to be a spike in the numbers of sick in those countries. Interestingly, the Baltic countries did issue travel warnings, although they have far less people traveling to/from Ukraine than Russia. I am going to be traveling to Odessa and Crimea in two weeks, and I am not really concerned at this point.


I would say that it is too early to start spreading panic at this point. Ukraine is in a pretty bad state as it is right now without this, and false rumors and speculations are not going to help anyone, especially with the important election approaching. Already this flu talk is starting to overshadow the crucial elections.

reply to post by asen_y2k


What city are you in, and what police units are they? I don't see what a quarantine like you describe has to do with a flu outbreak, or how it can prevent it. At first the government didn't care and wasn't even aware of what it going on, and next they go straight to imposing a total quarantine? This better not turn into some political trick.

It appears that Timoshenko, who is a Presidential candidate, is starting to heavily capitalize on this "epidemic" or whatever it really is. She is already heavily lobbying foreign countries to give aid to Ukraine, and trying to magnify this to be more serious than it is.



There are also other important news playing out in Ukraine in the last couple of days, which seem to be completely overshadowed by this hype. It concerns Ukraine's negotiations with Russia for gas import, and it appears that Yuschenko may try to pull another trick before he is booted out of office for good.

Kiev denies gas payment problems, expects EU loan

KIEV, October 30 (RIA Novosti) - Ukraine has denied a remark by Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Friday that Ukraine is again having difficulty paying for Russian natural gas supplies and the EU is not going to lend Kiev money to solve the problems.

Putin added that Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko told him by telephone on Friday that President Viktor Yushchenko was blocking payments for Russian gas supplies.

The Russian prime minister said that IMF data showed Ukraine had gold reserves of $27-$28 billion, with a maximum of $12 billion required to cover the payment. He also noted that the European Union had refused to extend any loans to Ukraine to cover its gas purchases.

Ukrainian president's representative for international energy security issues Bohdan Sokolovsky said Putin's statement was "unfriendly."

"On July 30, the European Commission and three honorable international financial institutions published a joint statement on a $1.7 billion loan to buy Russian gas. However, the head of the Ukrainian government is still slow at fulfilling the conditions in order for these funds to be transferred," Ukraine's presidential press service quoted Sokolovskiy as saying.

Kiev asked the EU for a $4.2 billion loan to pump Russian gas into its underground storages in order to avoid gas transfers into Europe.

"The EU has not given Ukraine any money," Putin said. "Ukraine has not received a single cent, not one hryvnia."

en.rian.ru...

I am not trying to derail the topic, but I do see a relation here. Plus there seems to be no other topics discussing this critical issue.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


They are MBC, in English MVS. I am in Lviv...
I don't know about total quarantine. They kept telling us, what are you doing outside? Its karantine(quarantine). It was about 1.45 in the night.They were shouting and throwing their hand around...


[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Originally posted by iggster

Originally posted by nikiano
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Here's an interesting post I found on another parallel thread from a person from the Ukraine:

****
(

Can you link where you found this blog or post? I am most interested in following first hand accounts from the area over what the media choses us to read. Which is the main reason I am following this thread.

I tried to, but I could't quote from a parallel thread. Let me try to add a link...

here you go...her post is about half way down the page. by Irinka.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by maloy
Also neighboring countries, especially Russia and Belarus don't appear too concerned, at least yet. No travel restrictions or even warnings....

Romania places all hospitals under quarantine amid flu threat -Xinhua

Minister says Ukraine flu epidemic to create emergency in Hungary -Caboodle

Looks like more than just mere flu propaganda to me.

Ukraine Mystery Outbreak Sparks WHO Concern as Disease Spreads -Bloomberg



RSOE Emergency and Disaster Information Service
Epidemic Hazard - Europe
Number of infected: 255,000
Number of dead: 67



[edit on 2-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Ok good news for me...got a pack of tamiflu, vitamins and mask and anti cold meds, sent from Poland.
Guess what...police are imposing quarantine. They had AK 47 guns and bullet proof jackets, batons and pepper spray on them. Caught us right outside the hostel, asked us what we were doing outside. We explained them about the meds. They did a full body search, detained us at the spot for 30mins. One guy did not have his id, he got arrested and taken to the station.

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

A show of force is only as good as the enforcement. Still it doesn't sound like a fun place to be right now.

reply to post by maloy


I seriously doubt the swine flu is being hyped by the current government, they're going to end up answering for not implementing a vaccination program if things are really that bad (which every credible medical reporting source says it is). It would be in their interest to downplay the swine flu and try to convince people some other pathogen is to blame.

All I can say is this should be very entertaining when the WHO arrive and get some tests going. As corrupt as they are even they won't put up with political posturing via the pandemic.

I'm getting the impression people on one side of the country are getting hit hard and the other side hasn't been fully affected yet. We're getting polar opposite reports from people claiming to be there.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Ok good news for me...got a pack of tamiflu, vitamins and mask and anti cold meds, sent from Poland.
Guess what...police are imposing quarantine. They had AK 47 guns and bullet proof jackets, batons and pepper spray on them. Caught us right outside the hostel, asked us what we were doing outside. We explained them about the meds. They did a full body search, detained us at the spot for 30mins. One guy did not have his id, he got arrested and taken to the station.

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Thanks for the update. Glad you made it home, safe and sound.

Yeah, that definitely does not sound like election propaganda stuff. A quarantine is not a good way to get someone to vote for you! A quarantine means they're serious.

Same with Romania....you don't just quarantine hospitals for no reason.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

Okay sent all the links I could find to a close relative that works at a news agency. Their news director said they will break the story on there local news cast after a few more decent links, the link to the Bloomberg site is what peaked their interest (they are watching the wires now to see what else the can get)....

Keep it up everyone, the more reseach we all do, the easier it will be to break this story in the US, even if its only local it will start the trickle of info to the public.

reply to post by Regenmacher


I am not saying that there is no flu outbreak or that there is nothing to be concerned about. Certainly there is a spike in reported cases. But it is important not to let the hype get in the way of facts, and right now there are still few facts to really know what is going on. Certain recent actions by Ukrainian government are somewhat suspect in light of approaching elections. I may very well be wrong, but I know Ukrainian politics and politicians pretty well. It is abnormal for someone like Timoshenko to be so up at arms about something like this.

Something is not right here. I just feel it. We missed one detail, which would be the key in this matter.

A little loud meditation...
The Ukrainians and the Romanians didn't want to take the vaccines in the first place, just as my people. If they're not taking it, theoretically the TPTB is starting a second front with the pandemic, but they're leaving my country out from it, which is the most resisting of all in Eastern Europe and became the flag carriers in the "Fight against the H1N1 vaccine" battle. While it is the neighbor to both of these countries, we not get the H1N1 at all. Why? What is making my country to different then others? Why Ukraine or Romania got it? This make no sense at all.

The essence is, the H1N1 is came from the west, i.e. from Germany, spreading toward east... but, and here comes the but, it's suddenly jumped over my little country, Hungary and hit these two countries instead damned hard.

What is missing from this picture? Why the virus is sparing, avoiding one country?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Sharrow]

The region is particularry vulnerable because they haven't had a big flu epidemic in 5-7 years. The locals do not have built natural immunities. If they are also refusing the vaccine then the population is at risk and the Health Minister decided to quarantine as a precaution. Smart. Meanwhile the tests in London should be revealed soon.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by maloy

 

I seriously doubt the swine flu is being hyped by the current government, they're going to end up answering for not implementing a vaccination program if things are really that bad (which every credible medical reporting source says it is). It would be in their interest to downplay the swine flu and try to convince people some other pathogen is to blame.

The thing is - the Ukrainian government is in total disarray right now. It is not clear on which politicians the blame rests on, as it is not even clear who is actual in control of the country. The politicians have split into tree factions, and all politics have been reduced to intrigues and tricks. Yuschenko is guaranteed not to win the election as it is, and Timoshenko and Yanukovich can both easily avoid the blame. It is a delicate and complex situation, which is being clouded even more by recent news.

Believe me, I am concerned as well about the flu, having relatives there and traving there in two weeks. But in my opinion there seems to be some political play behind this all that has not fully unraveled yet.

Originally posted by ecoparity
All I can say is this should be very entertaining when the WHO arrive and get some tests going.

I would very much like to hear their view, and I think no panic should be spread until then.

Originally posted by ecoparity
I'm getting the impression people on one side of the country are getting hit hard and the other side hasn't been fully affected yet. We're getting polar opposite reports from people claiming to be there.

Yes that is the case. Crimea seems to not be effected as of yet, and most regions in the Eastern half of the country report little abnormality.

reply to post by JJay55
We didn't have great flu pandemics in the last years either, just few minor ones. So, that's not an explanation. If they had seasonal flu, we had one. If they had great snow, we had one. Even the weather is almost the same. But now, it's so different. Both countries are only 250 kilometers from here and here at this side of the border... we have nothing at all.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Sharrow]

Originally posted by asen_y2k
They are MBC, in English MVS. I am in Lviv...

That makes sense. But MVS is technically not police. There has been a question recently from whom they now take orders, since there was a major dispute about their jurisdiction. Do you know if the local police is there too? And what are the news reporting about the quarantine? There doesn't appear to be anything like that in Kiev.

I also heard that Ukraine received first international shipment of Tamiflu today. If there is a major flu outbreak, the hospitals and hospital staff would be hardest hit first - so I assume that is where the vaccines would go now.

reply to post by Sharrow


According to RSOE EDIS, Hungary hasn't necessarily been "spared", however I agree with you that reported numbers do seem low.

Also note that the above site hasn't updated the Ukraine (and presumably other) numbers since Saturday. I think you have an interesting point. Makes me wonder if there have been somewhat precise vectors of contamination. That's not to imply intentional vectors. I just wonder, like you, if there is some common causality.

reply to post by maloy


I am a foreigner. Can you please tell me more about MBC?? Who do they take orders from. No specific news about quarantine, but they were certainly yelling karantin at us!
And there is only MBC, 4 of them. They were there with a squad car...

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

DP

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

TP

[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]