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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 03:58 PM
I was closely following this thread since the beginning but stopped after some 70nth page.

I concluded myself that a regular pneumonia and seasonal flu epidemic has started but government has decided to exploit that for their own agenda. Surprisingly, I think the only thing not manipulated by said agenda was the Ukrainian printed media and ministry of health. That said, the stunt has partly failed mostly due to insufficient amount of panic in order to sustain control through fear.
Hopefully I am right and all those garlic meals with lemon beverages against a non existent enemy will help boost immunity

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:04 PM
reply to post by ahemot

Hate to bust your false information, but it IS NOT Major News Outlet! Why are you doing that, to raise up the panic and to put up false rumors?

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:06 PM
reply to post by SassyCat

Do you think that the whole purpose of the viral hype is to stop the nations elections? that came into my mind in the beginning of this thread.

A state of national emergency can go as far as stopping the entire nations and easily control for the present administration.

I know that government in some of those countries are not very honest to the people, hell here in the US we are not better with a corporate manipulated media .

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:18 PM
Recominonics commentary just in half an hr ago from Dr Niman of

Ukraine H1N1 Deaths and Hospitalizations Spike Higher
Recombinomics Commentary 21:54
November 2, 2009

255516 Influenza/ARI
15810 Hospital Admissions
235 Intensive Care
70 deaths

The above numbers reflect the latest government update on cases in the Ukraine. They are dramatically higher than those reported in the past few days and raise concerns that the death toll will increase significantly over the next several days.

Some wire service reports and comments from WHO have downplayed these numbers, noting that the death rate for Ukraine is similar to other countries in Europe. However, the deaths in the other countries accumulated over the entire pandemic flu season, while the deaths in the Ukraine were in the past few weeks, with most cases reported in the past few days.

About 5% of patients admitted with H1N1 infections have died in other countries, so that rate in the patients currently hospitalized would increase the deaths in Ukraine 10 fold, which would be markedly higher than any other European country. Moreover, the vast majority of the cases, hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and deaths are in three Oblasts in western Ukraine. Lviv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk (see map).

This concentration of H1N1, including serious and fatal cases, raises concerns that the virus in this region has changed. Samples have been sent to London


Thanks for all the input to all the regular posters on this issue, I've not enough time myself to ferret around for updates to constantly post but am very grateful to all who do and am reading every single post that gets put here


posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:22 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Like I have been saying throughout this thread: Elections are the biggest reason for the hype. They saw opportunity when flu / H1N1 cases started to rise and went for it. The second reason might be this:

Am not too sure has anyone listened me though, my information has been "boring" and not the one conspiracy theorists want to hear so when it's not interesting I have noticed it just get ridiculed with personal attacks or ignored here even if it might be the truth. (am actually one of the conspiracy therorists but not in this case)

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:28 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

The release of that huge number of people hospitalized has the emails flying this afternoon. The possibility of a lethal mutation in the H1N1 virus looks more likely than we've seen to date.

Based on past occurrences a majority of those hospitalized will die in the time period between now and 30-45 days. That would be so far off the scale for swine flu fatalities I can't even describe what it might mean for the rest of us.

I hope that figure is wrong, maybe they're counting all admissions, even the in and out w/ medication and a note for bed rest patients?

Not good.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 04:36 PM
Not that it matters a hill-of-beans (US expression)...but I too have followed this thread from its inception with rapt attention. Not so much for the "why"...yet...but for the "what". My view of the "why", I feel, is somewhat skewed as I have no historic context for the region (unlike those actually "there"...asen and Former_USSR) and those next to "there" (JustMike, Luppa et al).

Asen_y2k has been of interest as the OP but also as a foreigner who is a medical student with somewhat direct connectivity to a local hospital. Former_USSR provides the flavor of the local population with additional insight into the local second-hand sources. Both have given me a unique view that I did not have prior to the onset of the current condition.

The value of those on the borders (again, to me), helps me understand how the neighboring countries assimilate and view data coming out of the Ukraine again, with historic context of relations that I am just beginning to understand.

All of the data presented (sans the name-calling) is useful to me as a researcher (as I am sure it is to the others here). Again, this direct and indirect data provides a rich set of information as we begin to attempt to understand if there is a "what"...and if so, is it generalizable...face it, in reality, it's sitting in the back of all our minds (sorry if I generalized too much there).

Additionally, there has been an increase of position statements attempting to encapsulate the "why" or motivation (if any) behind these goings ons...and frankly speaking, understanding the motivations of individuals or nation-states is a field of study that has existed for centuries...and we still haven't gotten it all figured out.

At the end of the day, I guess I'm saying to those who are putting info into the pot...please keep it helps...really it does...if your source is flaky or shady...just state so, and we can each personally weight the data appropriately. If you feel someone is mis-stating or mis-quoting...provide your context and we'll add it to the mix.

We're all here to try to figure this thing out...right?

And, No...I can't give you back the five minutes you wasted in reading this...I'll go back to sharpening my pencils again.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:12 PM
reply to post by jonke05

Nice post.
Why? Europe is motivated by elections. Since in many countries there is only a 2 week campaign by law, it's possible that political pressure is achieved by other methods. Hegemony only allows a few choices so the media becomes a tool. Product of the culture.

AQ is also motivated by elections. The more relaxed government election possibilities that will allow immigration of overpopulated Islamic countries into Western territory is a benefit for Islam in the future. Further, the spread of Islam is the goal of every muslim, attaining a place in foreign governments is quite an accomplishment.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:16 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

"So one report of a man who is coughing up blood and choking on it having "black ears" means we are dealing with a tropical virus of some kind? It wouldn't be more likely that he was suffering from lack of oxygen and turning blue?

I found your post above, both astounding and ignorant. Who said anything about a tropical virus? Are you referring to Marburg? Well since you don't seem to be clear about the disease, It was first discovered in Marburg Germany.

Marburg virus, which caused an epidemic of hemorrhagic fever among laboratory workers in Marburg, Germany, in 1967.

The symptoms are very similar to flu. I've already listed them with the links, but feel free to do your own research.

The other part of your post to me regarding ears bleeding as it relates to a high fever, is absurd. If that were the case we would have many infants with bloody ears.

You said you would not believe a blog report and it would require real news for you to believe that, well I gave you a real "news story" and an eye witness report and yet you just simply discount the facts and trivialize the story as only one.

You know as well as I do that this is NOT the same swine flu that most of the world is dealing with and in your latest post you said the same as I, that the H1N1 has probably mutated into a lethal strain. Well I agree. However, with that being said it is STILL A HEMORRHAGIC VIRUS!!! Just as the Spanish flu of 1918 was. I think people know the difference in blue or black!!

With all I have said you still push your one way street that this is "Swine Flu"
Why? I asked you what is your background in, Microbiology?, Medicine? You did not answer, why? I thought you were a reporter or a remote viewer or something like that. You seldom post sources and yet you speak with such authority, why?

You discount other posters for example "Clouds",as if he doesn't know what he is talking about, and yet he is always willing to list his source of info., something I have not seen from you, but you come off as the expert?
I don't get it!

This is not pneumonia folks, I don't believe this is H1N1 either. The medical authorities do not know what it is, so they will tell you something you are already comfortable with and to some degree complacent about. It is much easier than saying "We have a lethal hemorrhagic virus, that we can't treat and and can't stop". The truth is that is exactly what is going on. Do your on research and draw your own conclusions.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by paxnatus]

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:25 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

According to those figures they're going to be looking at roughly around 860 deaths in The Ukraine, without factoring in further hospital admissions and without factoring in a possibly higher than 5% death ratio due to any mutations that may have occured.

Is that correct?

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:28 PM
reply to post by paxnatus

I appreciate you keeping an open mind that this is something bigger than H1N1 but if that is the case then we have a serious problem in World Health and Disease Control.
From my observation WHO and the CDC are only counting organizations, they don't set protocols or have requirements in reporting facts from Health Ministers. Instead governments decide what information to release when and how. This would cause serious delay in the event of Marburg or ebola or a biological attack.
Seems to me that WHO and the CDC are called in after the fact. They come in and count and diagnose. What good is that?

Is there an organization that monitors biological arsonals? Can this organization report accurate and timely? We still don't have a clear picture of WMD in Iraq. Why not?
As the world becomes smaller and terrorism increases there will be more biological accidents, incidents, and worry for people like us who have stuck to this 100 page thread. Why isn't the info out there at a source that is reliable and accurate? Maybe I'll start one.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:34 PM
reply to post by paxnatus

I found your initial post to me to be quite rude so fairs - fair I suppose.

I was referring to pneumonic plague, a disease which mostly occurs in Africa now.

You're completely wrong about pneumonic plague which should be obvious if you'd given it any thought at all and a simple google for "bleeding from ears" will bring up a common set of causes, the most prevalent being ear infection and high fever.

Really, this is all that needs to be said: Google: pneumonic plague ukraine

I don't know how you feel about ATS being the primary driver of that falsehood but I don't feel too great about it.

If the discussion here is limited only to experts in the medical field please let me know, I must have missed that requirement. Having virologists, microbiologists and researchers among my email friends has proven to be very helpful so far, however.

Not that it matters, are you in the Ukraine? Have you taken samples for testing and confirmed pneumonic plague or Marberg? Does it not make sense to you that if something that lethal were responsible the quarter million infected would be dying in the streets by now? How you and Clouds could jump to that conclusion without even thinking over the basic logistics and manage to generate pages of "belief" in it blows my mind.

I'm sorry but you're completely wrong and the people on ATS who live there have enough to worry about without someone scaring the crap out of them over something so foolish.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:50 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Here's an interesting post I found on another parallel thread from a person from the Ukraine:

Hi to everybody. I am from Ukraine even i don't leave there now.. I want to make several notes. 1. Dont trust a word to what ukr. officials are saying. Whatever they say is lie. 2.In Kiev and eastern part of Ukraine most of people don't take this all serious and don't understand why they closed schools. This flue doesn't look different from other years. 3.People in Western ukraine are quite concerned even no major panic. I found a person from Ivano Frankivsk. He has conncetions in the local ambulance. He is saying officials are hiding real numbers. Only today over 70 people were put to hospitals. As a matter of fact his close friend who works in ambulance got to hospital yesterday. Many cases people die in just several days. When they make autopsy they see lungs are completely destroyed like after a long time pneumonia. Doctors don't know what is it. He also sent me instructions for the hospital employees. They are colecting all kinds of tests and send them to Kiev and never get results.. If you want details about these instructions I can translate. Treatment is same for everybody.. But strange thing some of the ill people don't have fever... There are rumours in that region that a burial of people on which was tested biological weapon during USSR was open. But its just rumours so far. What is obvious is that above some cities AN26 are flying and sometimes spraying smth. I even got a picture... But officials completely deny this...


Thought some of you might find it interesting.

The one interesting part of the quote I found interesting is that she mentioned that the patients there were not having fevers. This has been commonly reported with the h1n1 flu, too. So, that is more evidence that it could be h1n1 or a mutation thereof. But then....with the other rumors of re-opening an old bioweapons burial ground and spraying...who knows!

[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:55 PM

if you follow the govt update link on that page
its odd that Lviv is #13
and odder still is that emblem at the top of the snake headed into the grail...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by DChenO]

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:57 PM
reply to post by Luppakorva

I believe you, because I know how politics play in countries in the region, also I would not be surprise that at the end the whole thing while unfortunately is nothing but a hype.

No mutations just the viral infection and a government using the hype of swine flu epidemic to keep control of the government.

Time will tell.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 05:59 PM
reply to post by nikiano

Believe it or not that is exactly what my husband said at the beginning of the pandemic hype in that region, it seems like something was release in the area perhaps to take advantage of the swine flu pandemic.

But like I say before time will tell.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 06:02 PM
reply to post by nikiano

Lack of a fever is also a known symptom of swine flu cases going back to Mexico. That's one of the media mis-steps I've noticed, they tell people that high fever is the primary indicator of swine flu when we have thousands of cases where the patient had a lower than normal temperature until the worst part of the immune response began.

When I had it I also had a lower than normal body temperature more often than a fever.

There's a theory that the low body temp is an "intelligent" immune response from our genetic history. This swine flu virus thrives at higher body temperatures and cannot reproduce at lower temperatures, hence the theory that victim's immune systems respond first by lowering the thermostat.

The primary indicator of swine flu is a severe cough and body aches. The cough is deep and painful. Fever may or may not be present. If the victim goes into a cytokine storm reaction they will quite suddenly develop a high fever and confusion / hallucinations and have trouble breathing. From there they begin to turn blue as the lungs fill up with blood. Without treatment they will begin coughing up blood and go into a coma. Death occurs in as little as 12 hours up to months later depending on the victim's health, age and how strong the immune response was.

The lung conditions you describe are very common in those who die from immune response. The T cells actually attack the lining of the lungs causing them to hemorrhage. This same mechanism is also seen in the other major organs leading to some pretty gruesome descriptions of "melted organs" / "cooked organs" and so on.

I'm sorry to have to post that so many times but people keep making the mistake of thinking those symptoms indicate some other pathogen is at work. I'm afraid its the same thing we've seen since Mexico - it just hits some places and people much harder than others. It is a scary virus when it kills though, as scary as Ebola or any other virus that attacks the host in that way.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 06:09 PM

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by nikiano

Believe it or not that is exactly what my husband said at the beginning of the pandemic hype in that region, it seems like something was release in the area perhaps to take advantage of the swine flu pandemic.

But like I say before time will tell.

Wow...never thought of that! Thanks.

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 06:12 PM
Dr Niman responds to my question about pneumonic plague or other hemorrhagic viruses in Ukraine:

Swine H1N1 can cause a hemorrhagic disease, which has been descibed in many cases, including those in Ukraine. Similar disease was caused by the 1918 pandmeic strain, which also was H1N1 and of swine origin. There have been no reports out of Ukraine that would point away from H1N1. The range of symptoms for H1N1 are quite broad. Some have no symptoms. Others have symptoms with no fever of low grade fever. My whole family has been infected with H1N1 (PCR confirmed in 2/4). All of our cases were mild. I had a low grade fever for less than 12 hours (I was PCR confirmed). My wife had no fever. One daughter (who was also PCR confirmed had a fever of 103 F). We all had coughs. Some had chills and night sweats. Some had a sore throat. Some had a headache. I believe one daught and I were reinfected about a month later. Others of course have had much more severe disease. About 5% of those hospitalized in the US die. Many are young previously healthy adults with no underlying conditions. H1N1 is widespread throughout the northern hemisphere. In the US absenteeism is high (up to 30-50%) and schools close because too many teachers and administrators are sick to keep the schools functioning. The same scenario is hapening in the Ukraine and other European countries. H1N1 is called a pandemic for a reason, and appears to be taking a turn for the worse. Ukraine may be leading this change, but it is quite widespread and deaths are increasing in Europe, Asia, and North America. The flu season has just started amd it is likely that most flu this season will be swine flu. There is NO seasonal flu circulting in the Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe, other than a few sporadic cases. In the US and Erurope, over 99% of infleunza A is swine flu.

Dr Niman - Flutracker

posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 06:14 PM

Originally posted by nikiano
reply to post by ecoparity

Here's an interesting post I found on another parallel thread from a person from the Ukraine:


Can you link where you found this blog or post? I am most interested in following first hand accounts from the area over what the media choses us to read. Which is the main reason I am following this thread.

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