Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by TonyBravada

Originally posted by nikiano

2. If you're wanting the silver just for the flu, you could go with a similar remedy that is cheaper and more readily available. Ferrum phosphoricum, for example, is a known flu remedy, and ferrum is just one row above argentum on the periodic table of elements. And ferrum phosphoricum is a common remedy that you can find at any of the health food stores that sells homeopathics.


Well with everything in this thread, it's very difficult to determine what is true, what is paranoia, what is panic, and what is straight make-believe...

But with regard to iron being a row above silver, I'm not sure how you equate the two in that sense. There are a number of terrible conclusions people may come to based on that logic. Mercury is just a row below silver, as is gold (which is toxic when it forms a salt, though harmless as a metal.) You appear to be a pharmacist? I am not trying to attack you in any way, it's just that I have a heavy background in chemistry and equating silver and iron like that is very bothersome to me - especially considering all of the transition metals that anyone is likely to encounter are found in 3 rows. Silver is in the 2nd and is thus either in the same row or just one row away from so many things.


You sort of came in on the tail end of the conversation. Go back a few pages (about a hundred and fifty) and you'll see where I was coming from. When I first put the flu symptoms into my repetorization software, ferrum phosphoricum came up as a pretty good fit for the Ukranian flu symptoms.

Yes, iron is not that closely related to silver compared to other minerals closer to silver in the 5th row, but the availability of remedies at the health food store are limited. There are only a few number of phosphate salt remedies at the health food stores. One is phosphorus itself, and the other is ferrum phosphoricum.

Of course, argentum nitricum is much closer to argentum metallicum or argentum phosphoricum, and argentum nitricum is available as a remedy in the health food stores, but HE SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT A REMEDY THAT WOULD GET INTO THE LUNGS THAT IS SIMILAR TO argentum phosphoricum AND IS READILY AVAILABLE AT THE THE HEALTH FOOD STORES, but argentum nitricum doesn't have an affinity to the lungs the way that argentum phosphoricum does.

Ferrum phosphoricum is closer to argentum phosphoricum than argentum nitricum, AS FAR AS THE ABILITY TO GET INTO THE LUNGS, because of the phosphate salt. Phosphorus would also be closely related to argentum phosphoricum. Plus, ferrum phosphoricum is a well known flu remedy, whereas argentum nitricum is not.

But that is why I also gave him a list of other flu remedies.

I know my chemistry, but I also know my homeopathy. And homeopathically, two mineral remedies close to each other on the periodic table are more likely to be closer to each other than remedies that are farther away from each other. To see where I'm coming from, read Jan Scholten's Minerals and Homepathy books. They're quite fascinating, and really make the mineral remedies come alive.





[edit on 4-12-2009 by nikiano]




posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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Excerpts from:

Flukraine: Swine flu mutating with a strain of politics



( www.globalresearch.ca... )


A case tested in Ukraine was determined to be a "low reactor" to the swine flu vaccine. This means that the current vaccine is ineffective against this mutated strain. As one of our forum members pointed out, this last reference comes from one of the primary sources used by the mainstream media: Dr. Henry L. Niman's 'Recombinomics' website. Further investigation reveals that Dr. Niman was a keynote speaker at a conference in Asia in 2006 along with a whole roster of representatives of some of the largest pharmaceutical corporations in the world, among them Scripps, Merck, Roche and others. [...] Global Research contributor F. William Engdahl also casts doubt upon Dr. Niman's credentials and motivations as a serious and credible source of information.


Engdahl questions whether the current outbreak in the Ukraine is swine flu at all and has written two excellent editorials investigating the internal politics and wider geopolitical factors. In his article Ukraine, WHO and the Geopolitics of Swine Flu Panic, Engdahl concludes that events "appear to be a political concoction by a threatened government to avoid election defeat and possibly declare martial law." The Ukrainian Presidential candidate Sergiy Tigipko agrees stating that the Flu 'epidemic' is being used to distract public attention from real problems. Engdahl takes account of current political upheaval and cites an interesting hypothesis from Dr Lawrence Broxmeyer: Broxmeyer suggests that the WHO and CDC wish to divert attention from a worldwide epidemic of tuberculosis, while focusing attention on flu instead. Indeed recently the WHO changed its categories of causes of death to lump death from influenza in the same group as death from tuberculosis and other pulmonary disease. Given the present Swine Flu hysteria, any pulmonary death seems to be reported as "death from H1N1 influenza." In a passing note the report typically notes the patient also suffered from lung problems.



mod edit, for original source

[edit on Sat Dec 5 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by calohan
Excerpts from:

Flukraine: Swine flu mutating with a strain of politics



( www.globalresearch.ca... )


A case tested in Ukraine was determined to be a "low reactor" to the swine flu vaccine. This means that the current vaccine is ineffective against this mutated strain. As one of our forum members pointed out, this last reference comes from one of the primary sources used by the mainstream media: Dr. Henry L. Niman's 'Recombinomics' website. Further investigation reveals that Dr. Niman was a keynote speaker at a conference in Asia in 2006 along with a whole roster of representatives of some of the largest pharmaceutical corporations in the world, among them Scripps, Merck, Roche and others. [...] Global Research contributor F. William Engdahl also casts doubt upon Dr. Niman's credentials and motivations as a serious and credible source of information.


Engdahl questions whether the current outbreak in the Ukraine is swine flu at all and has written two excellent editorials investigating the internal politics and wider geopolitical factors.



Great find!

Yup. That is why you can only take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt. I had a sneaking suspicion that the person who was using this person as his main reference was a pharmaceutical insider.

Dr. Niman might be an expert on virology, but using him as an expert in tracking this epidemic is sort of like a magician using a pretty assistant to distract everyone's eyes, while the real trick is happening up his sleeve.



[edit on 4-12-2009 by nikiano]

mod edit, source

[edit on Sat Dec 5 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 


I think you have things about right with what you've said, and have been saying right along. And I feel and have felt the same way with one exception: and that is that an expert in nonsense is nonsense himself.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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I am so glad and very relief that the good people in ATS hard work and research is finding the real truth behind the Ukraine pandemic and the so call mutating virus.

Why I am so relieve? because it means that to this day the swine flu will be not more than the same swine flu of 76, with its sadly share of casualties just like the seasonal flu every year.

Thanks for all the good work.


the truth will always prevail



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I am so glad and very relief that the good people in ATS hard work and research is finding the real truth behind the Ukraine pandemic and the so call mutating virus.

Why I am so relieve? because it means that to this day the swine flu will be not more than the same swine flu of 76, with its sadly share of casualties just like the seasonal flu every year.

Thanks for all the good work.


the truth will always prevail


Sorry, I don't quite follow your logic..

You say that because a person who claims to be a virologist, actually turns out to be a virologist that has a CAREER, that means that he is a liar?

What would you be saying if it turned out that he wasn't an active virologist? That we couldn't trust him then?

You know, the W.H.O. is not the only ones that have been releasing D225G sequences.

Your post really shows that you like to jump to conclusions and believe what you DESIRE to be the truth. Wishful thinking does not make it the "truth".

Many of us thought the swine flu was a benevolent hoax at first. Some peoples egos refuse to let them admit they might be wrong

[edit on 4-12-2009 by seattletruth]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


Sorry to burst your bubble of conspiracies in mutating virus, but here in my neck of the woods swine flu has become none existent, never was a pandemic and never amounted to what the big pharma, the government and the WHO or the Ukraine mutating propaganda wanted.

Come down for a visit we no even had any cases of bad cold yet.

That is my reality, that is what I see ever day, no some news by the so call experts with shady ties to some agenda.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Another article by W. Engdahl on Ukraine theme. This quote summarize pretty well article content:



The Ukraine deaths attributed by WHO and Ukraine authorities to an uncontrolled outbreak of H1N1 Swine Flu are not the result of H1N1, a virus whose very existence has never been demonstrated by WHO. The deaths appear to be a consequence of collapsing general health conditions as well as supplies of basic grains. The IMF conditionalities imposed on Ukraine as a precondition for a stabilization loan and not Swine Flu is where we should look for the cause.


globalresearch.ca

BTW www.globalresearch.ca is one of my favorite geopolitical site.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by zeddissad
 


The are also one of my favorite site, they make very clear to show how politics makes have a big influence in world news.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by seattletruth
 


Sorry to burst your bubble of conspiracies in mutating virus, but here in my neck of the woods swine flu has become none existent, never was a pandemic and never amounted to what the big pharma, the government and the WHO or the Ukraine mutating propaganda wanted.

Come down for a visit we no even had any cases of bad cold yet.

That is my reality, that is what I see ever day, no some news by the so call experts with shady ties to some agenda.





So.. Because swine flu isn't hitting your area, that means it isn't happening anywhere else in the world??

By that logic, there is no war in Iraq or Afghanistan either.

You continue to show your propensity towards wishful thinking, but that does not make it a fact.

Further more, do you expect to see swine flu zombies walking down the street once they get sick, just so you know its "really happening"?

One might assume that they'd be at home sick, or at the hospital. Do you check in at the hospitals every day?

Also, you didn't answer my previous post, and didn't reveal any ground breaking "mutation-gate" emails that got hacked and proved that there is no mutation, so you didn't "burst my bubble". This is not something that I *want* to be happening.. I just have a bad habit of looking at all the evidence to find the truth, not the convenient "truth"

And just think about this: the novel form of H1N1 relesed in April is more suited towards replication inside swine. The D225G mutation is only a change of ONE of the 500+ proteins. In a virus that does not have DNA to double check the replication process, do you really think that its unexpected that the virus will mutate at ONE of those 500+ locations that allows it to replicate better inside human lungs?

I'll answer that one for you so you dont have to post: "but I'm not seeing it in my town and i know its a harmless flu except for that one time in 1918. Gotta make sure to add bold so I can make my baseless opinions look more like a fact!"

Also.. Why isn't it obvious that the media outlet and W.H.O have both tried to underplay and deny this whole mutation thing?? Especially combined with the "low reactor" lab results.. How does that fit into to the "mutation hoax", if it is all made up? Wouldn't they have postulated a hypothetical mutation which wasn't negatively effected by their vaccine so that they wouldn't face possible losses if the public became fully aware?




[edit on 4-12-2009 by seattletruth]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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Interesting link today, though I'm not sure when posted.

Sums it up quite well I think.


CIA Operated Aerial Spraying Plane Carrying "Mutated" Virus Shot Down in China


Reports circulating in the Kremlin today are stating that a US government contracted airplane piloted by American CIA agents and carrying a cargo of a "mutated"swine flu virus intended for aerial spraying was shot down at China's Shanghai Pudong airport by a saboteur team of what are believed to be Israeli Mossad soldiers seeking to prevent an American attack...

According to reports China (China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force) contacted the Indian and Nigerian intelligence officials about the presence of these US operated Ukranian aircrafts amidst growing concern that the United States were spreading “biological agents” in the Earth’s atmosphere also which some Chinese officals believed to be a attempt to mass genocide via the spread of h1n1 swine flu...

But, to the most horrible outcome of this mutated swine flu virus is the World Health Organization now reporting that it is killing people in France, Norway, Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine, and the United States as the death toll from this Global Pandemic is now reported to be nearing 8,000 and China now reporting that this deadly disease has now crossed over into dogs.




posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by asianeko
 


Asian, I thought it was interesting as well, but we must remember that this is from Sorcha Faal, known disinfo shill...



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by seattletruth
 


Ahh I didn't know this. Thank you for setting me straight.

I actually stumbled upon this in another forum I frequent, one having nothing to do with theories at all! (It's a forums dedicated to sufferers of a particular phobia) I immediately figured I'd give it a peek and share.

I'm still learning what sources are viable and what sources are not.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by asianeko]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by asianeko
 


Asian, I thought it was interesting as well, but we must remember that this is from Sorcha Faal, known disinfo shill...


Oh, is he disinfo?
I read once in his column the Bush family had been tricked into going to Camp David and they'd all been captured and extradited to the Hague, to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

So didn't that really happen?


Sorcha has great conspiracy theory dreams, and is kind enough to write them down for our entertainment.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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That article was an interesting read. He managed to even include the Mayan calaendar into the mix.


But is it all hooie?

I remember reading about that Ukrainian spray plane being forced down in Mumbai some time ago. That really did happen did it not? I kept thinking of that incident back when Asan was telling us about hearing unusual airplanes overhead in Lviv.

I think just as there is misinformation sometimes in even the legit science reports we get, there are grains of truth in the fanciful stories too. A discerning eye to all sources I say.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 

That's how he does it.
He reads the papers too, he's obviously into conspiracy stuff.
He takes a few current events, stirs in the hopes and fears of people like us, and then indulges us with his wild daydreams.

His articles are as useful as a broken clock.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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One might assume that they'd be at home sick, or at the hospital. Do you check in at the hospitals every day?


Perhaps it's one of those small towns where everyone knows each other. Either that or she's going door to door!



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by Americanist
 


I don't have too, that is where one of my neighbors works at in the local hospital pharmacy, she wasn't even forced into getting the vaccine, still we never go any school closings or mass deaths in town.

And for my husband that happens to work in our local military base, none of the people he work with have known of anybody getting sick or themselves with swine flu, now we do have an increase of hart attacks lately.

My daughter works for one of the local banks, none of the co-workers been sick and neither their children at school beside the back to school bug, and for my son he works for a game store none of his co-workers been sick either.

And what else can I say, nothing no even in the neighboring towns, after the initial propaganda for vaccinations now is nothing, the swine flu just has been gone with the wind, still now we have the news media telling all no to forget that the seasonal flu is around the corner, so come down and get your seasonal flu vaccine is plenty.


BTW I live in GA. while at the hype of the swine flu season we got all kind of propaganda, everything were lies, the actually death from pneumonia has not been higher than any other season before, while the TV were showing lines of people waiting for swine flu shots it was nothing but a lie and the TV lines where from other states mass vaccination.

So again, where is the swine flu now, yes I remember . . . mutating around the world . . .

What a joke.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I'm in agreement with you, marg6043.

Here in Australia a few months ago, we were the 1st country to make the swine flu vaccine available. As far as I'm aware, there has been NO mass stampede by the average guy/gal in the street to their local clinic/hospital/doctor to get their free shot. The government has done virtually nothing to encourage the populace to get the vaccination.

Basically, the swine flu "epidemic" has been a non-event here in Australia. Like yourself, I have not personally seen a single person with confirmed swine flu ... neither has any member of my family or any of my friends. If it hadn't been for the initial media hype leading up to the so-called "pandemic" alert, you could be forgiven for asking "swine flu ? what swine flu ?".

And if swine flu is so "low key" here in Oz, why should we believe that it's radically different in other countries ? After all, Australia is very much a part of the 21st century global community and doesn't exist in isolation from the rest of the world.

So, one can now ask ... has the swine flu had a major impact on the world's population ? The answer has to be NO.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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I stopped reading around page 100+
Now this thread has reached page 239 ... with all those posts, there must finally be some kind of consensus as to what's been happening in the Ukraine. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to summarize in a few short sentences what this thread has concluded and achieved ?





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