Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

reply to post by Kailassa


It all comes to the same thing, the manufactures of vaccines were already getting patents way before the swine flu was a pandemic, remember Norvatis already had the vaccine ready when it became a "global epidemic by WHO" I remember we got a thread on that.

Seems that the Ukraine outbreak is all many think about, the forget that before the Ukraine it was a littler town call La Gloria

The first known victim of the swine flu was five year old Edgar Hernandez, who lives in the town of La Gloria in Mexico.

La Gloria is part of the municipality of Perote – where an outbreak of flu and chest infections has affected 1,600 people out of a population of 3,000 since February.

The high death rate from flu in Mexico is down to poverty – people living in cramped, overcrowded conditions with poor nutrition and little access to healthcare.

At the heart of Perote is Granjas Carroll – one of the country’s largest pig farms.

Some 50 percent of the operation is owned by the US-based corporation Smithfield Foods. It produces close to a million pigs a year.

The biggest reason that swine flu was renamed was do to the food industry complain that swine flu will make people thing about pork products

www.socialistworker.co.uk...

Originally posted by unicorn1
reply to post by seattletruth

 

'Atleast we can all agree now that taking the vaccine isn't the smartest choice, the D225G mutation has shown to be resistant.'

Am I missing something? I didn't see an actual consensus on this.
It really depends how widespread the variant is. Some people might argue that the vaccine still offers protection to the original strain and is therefore better than nothing.
Don't get me wrong, at the moment I have no intention of getting the vaccine. I can think of a few reasons not to get the vaccine but I don't understand the one that says that because the D225 mutation is resistant, there is no point in getting it.
Is that what you are saying?

If you are vaccinated against swine flu you may be immune to one of the many low-morbidity variants of it. If this type is circulating in your area, the vaccine may prevent you catching it.

If you are not vaccinated you are likely to catch one of these common strains, which many report is no worse than regular flu.

If the high morbidity strain spreads to your area, and you have already had a bout of a low morbidity one, you are likely to be immune, just as people who caught Spanish flu early were immune to the deadly version which came in the second wave.

However if you were vaccinated instead you would be unlikely to have any immunity to it, and would be a sitting duck.

Originally posted by Kailassa
However if you were vaccinated instead you would be unlikely to have any immunity to it, and would be a sitting duck.

See, this is the part that bothers me. It's like saying the human body has no immunity at all.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by calohan
. . . .

GSK secret contract binds Government to SILENCE !
Dr Eric Beeth 2009-11-02 18:13:41
Dear all,

The Flu Case - I am a Swedish general practitioner working in Belgium, and quite involved in this issue, as together with three citizens and another GP we advised the Belgian Government last Friday in court that this is a disguised pharmaceutical trial on human subjects, with real risks involved.

(Snipped the text here!)

(to make the quote fit in the context of my post below, and making it a bit shorter/Chevalerous)

And what an informed consent it was.

One really needs to read that through a few times to grasp the full import.

For those who don't want to download a pdf, here's a copy/paste of the Pandemrix consent form.:
(bolding is mine)

Consequently, I the undersigned …………………………………………………………………….. certify that:

• I have been made aware of the risks incurred by this vaccination against the A/H1N1 virus, knowing that a large-scale study will take place during this current vaccination campaign 2009-2010, in order to establish whether the product presents, at its current stage of development, any side-effects in either the short, medium and/or long term;

• I have been informed that my doctor is under obligation to consign personal data relating to me (last name, first name, national register number together with the reference of the manufacturing batch of the product injected) to a centralised electronic data-bank called “e-health” under the auspices of the Belgian government; my doctor will likewise be required to supply additional data relating to the safety of the product over the coming years;

• I have been informed that the manufacturer of the vaccine has obtained legal immunity in the event of the appearance of side-effects, and that I will therefore have no means of appeal against the company GSK; I have also been informed that in the event of unspecified damages relating to this vaccine being brought against me, the law protects the administrator of the vaccine against any legal or administrative proceedings.

I have taken good account of the pros and cons of this vaccine, including the conditions under which it is being launched which constitute a counter-indication for vaccination with Pandemrix, a product containing squalene. I have fully understood the possible consequences, the risks and the benefits associated with this vaccine, and I agree to be vaccinated in full knowledge of these facts.

www.asanat.org...

By signing this you are agreeing to take part in a medical study.

You are agreeing to your doctor providing not only your present, but also your future details to "e-health".

You are agreeing that use of this vaccine is contra-indicated.

In other words you are being asked to get vaccinated and at the same time being told that, medically speaking, it's a bad thing to do!

Oh man! none of the people I know in Sweden and Norway has been presented to a paper or signed any paper from the authorities before they took the Glaxo Pandemrix shot at the health-clinic.


Do we have anyone here from Belgium who had the Pandemrix vaccine shot yet?

If so? did they present this paper for you to sign before taking the Pandemrix A/H1N1 vaccine from GSK??

I'm very interested to hear if anyone from an European country has been presented to OR signed a paper like this before taking the GSK Pandemrix vaccine?

Please come forward with this information and tell us how they do in your country - are they making you sign any paper before the shot?



[edit on 30-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

Does anybody have info on the 1932-33 flu the same time frame as the bodies just returned to Ukraine from Russia. If im not mistaken there was a serious flu problem in those years that didn't make it to pandemic level.

www.csa.com...

Though man has made impressive advances in the field of medicine over the last century, we remain vulnerable to a host of diseases, ranging from the common cold to those that can only be characterized as frightening. Influenza pandemics (worldwide) have occurred at various times in the 19th and 20th centuries. Several pandemics have been recorded; the first Asiatic (Russian) occurred in 1889-91 when one million people died. In 1918-19 a second pandemic suspected to have originated in Europe, known as Spanish Influenza, took millions of lives worldwide. Pandemics keep occurring regularly, in 1932-33; 1947-48; 1957, when Asian flu killed 1 to 1.5 million people; and the 1968-69 Hong Kong Flu outbreak, which killed 0.75 to 1 million. The possibility of a new type of pandemic influenza-due to mutated strains of Influenza, particularly H5N1-is nightmarish.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by JBA2848]

reply to post by JBA2848


I found some more information on the 1932-33 and also the 47-48 and 57 Honk Kong flu interesting this were pandemics now been tagged to bird flu.

Pandemics keep occurring regularly, in 1932-33; 1947-48; 1957, when Asian flu killed 1 to 1.5 million people; and the 1968-69 Hong Kong Flu outbreak, which killed 0.75 to 1 million. The possibility of a new type of pandemic influenza-due to mutated strains of Influenza, particularly H5N1-is nightmarish.

Avian influenza viruses do not normally infect species other than birds and pigs. Migratory aquatic birds, most notably wild ducks, are the natural reservoir of avian influenza viruses that inhabit the intestines of these birds. Infection in domestic poultry is thought to occur due to contact with these aquatic/wild birds. Fifteen subtypes of influenza virus are known to infect birds, providing a large pool of influenza viruses potentially circulating in bird populations.

www.csa.com...

Found something else about the 33-34 flu pandemic was so lethal because it was a famine going on at that time in the Ukraine.

On Saturday, November 24, all Ukraine will observe the 75th anniversary of the Ukrainian famine or Holodomor of 1932-33. The scale of mourning was made public both to Ukrainians and the world.
Nothing, however, is known about the famine, which also affected Russia, and how the date will be marked in Russia. There is no information available about any official events on either the Internet or from news agencies.
This oversight in the official response to the tragic date in Russia and Ukraine is unlikely to be due to the difference in the number of victims: between 3.5-4 million Ukrainians perished in the famine, while Russia lost hundreds of thousands.
Kiev believes that the extent of the losses from the famine surpasses even World War II.
But even if the number of Russian victims does not run into the millions this does not mean that Russia is incapable of honoring the memory of those hundreds of thousands on a nationwide scale.
The overwhelming fact is that Moscow is anxious to divorce itself from the 1932-33 tragedy for political reasons.
The Russian authorities fear losing the information war against Ukraine, which is demanding that other countries recognize the Holodomor as genocide of Ukrainians.
Although the regime guilty of the crime no longer exists, Moscow is concerned that if there was an admission it would have to bear the moral and maybe material responsibility for the millions of deaths 75 years ago.
Moscow is making every effort to block Kiev's plans to turn the Holodomor into an international issue like the Jewish Holocaust of World War II.
The authorities are also trying to wipe out all memory of the event that is now extremely unsafe politically.
There are, however, no documents testifying that the famine was deliberately engineered for ethnic reasons.
Moscow had to repay German industrial loans, and was forced to clear out barns in grain-producing areas.
At the same time, the geographical range of the famine shows that it hit mostly the Soviet Union's outlying ethnic regions. Aside from Ukraine the famine raged in the Kuban, Stavropol, Don, and the lower and middle Volga areas, which were part of the Russian Federation.
A year earlier, in Kazakhstan, which was also part of the Russian Federation at that time, one in three Kazakhs died from starvation.
In the Volga area the worst hit was the German autonomy, which was wiped out in 1941.

en.rian.ru...

reply to post by JBA2848


While there may have been a flu problem in the Ukraine in 1932-33, there were much more serious problems there at that time. This was the time of the Holomodor...the intentional starvation of millions of Ukrainians at the hands of Stalin, who locked them inside their borders, confiscated their grain, and sold it on the international market, while millions of Ukrainians starved, to the point where some were reduced to cannabalism. Under such conditions, various illnesses found plenty of weakened hosts.

For more indepth information, you can watch the new 12 part documentary on the subject here

reply to post by Kailassa


These statements do seem somewhat oversimplified, black/white:

If the high morbidity strain spreads to your area, and you have already had a bout of a low morbidity one, you are likely to be immune, just as people who caught Spanish flu early were immune to the deadly version which came in the second wave.

However if you were vaccinated instead you would be unlikely to have any immunity to it, and would be a sitting duck.

I don't understand why this should be so. Its the same immune system reacting; whether it was activated by an actual infection or a jab, is it not?

I also wonder about all the hype surrounding super lethal mutations. What is the likelihood that something that bad will develop given that it has not done so, that I've heard of, in the millenia that we have existed?

I agree that over use of anti-virals/anti-biotics and mass immunizations increases the pressure for such mutations, but my guess is that the immune system of the majority of us will in the end be able to fight off whatever comes along -- mainly because it has always been so. That is why we, as a species, are still here. No?

reply to post by marg6043


Ukraine just had a lot of bodies from the Ukraine Famine returned to them from Russia I just wonder how many of those could have been infected with 1932-33 flu due to being unheathy due to famine.

www.infoukes.com...

www.kyivpost.com...

The remains of 602 people caught fleeing famine in Ukraine 60 years ago and shot by the Soviet secret police were reburied on Saturday, closing a dark chapter in the country's history.

Ukraine's Holodomor, or death by starvation, was denied by the Soviet Union for decades.

reply to post by Angiras


My point is they just had 602 bodies of people who died during the 1932-33 pandemic/famine sitting some where in the open and reburied them on Saturday. Could they have dug up old diseases when they dug up those bodies and stirred up some old disease from 1932-33.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by JBA2848]

One consistent note on this thread is, IMHO, a certain reservation regarding making a final, unreserved pronouncement about which pathogen is the primary culprit. Accepting, for the moment that H1N1 in the form of a virus is involved, how can we be sure that it is the tip of the spear which is responsible for the outright liquefaction of lung tissues?

One possibility is that pneumonic or tubercular cohabiters of lung or other bodily tissues are unleashed by the viral stress of a “mild” flu infection in what might be thought of as a domino effect. Some pre-existing conditions might be catalyzed by any strain of flu or even a simple URI. We can probably rule out hangnails, sprained ankles, and alopecia as bad actors in combination with the “flu”, but surely dormant, TB, pneumonic pathogens, diabetes, meningeal
membrane flaws and other health issues might be, say, 90% of the problem in morbid cases. Then again a resident pathogen might find the appearance of hemagglutinin-neuraminidase a tasty snack or some handy genetic Legos with which to do a bio-science project in one’s tissues.

The absolute western ho-down which is swirling around binding sites trying to pin down the H1N1 sequence du jour (as your alter ego hamster put it) is downright comical. Every day it’s a do-si-do and a promenade around the sequence lab trying to settle on this or that final answer even hinting that the “mutations” or “current re-assortment” might necessitate a “new vaccine” will have to be concocted.

Cool…throw out the current batch (already paid for) and charge for a whole new vaccine permutation. Big pharma must surely tremble with expectation over that possibility, with visions of hypodermics dancing in their heads.

ECO…there you go again referring to yourself all the time. I this, I that, I the other. Now you engage in ad homonym against Rebecca Carley going back 5 years. Please be kind enough to point out which of her statements are untrue or inaccurate. From her perspective at the time she was merely repeating the official story out of Ukraine and other locals which are still in a tizzy over an accurate read.

Rebecca Carley

We do NOT know what disease the people were/are coming down with. We
do know that doctors are describing the disease as Pneumonic Plague,...
or as some type of hemorrhagic fever, or as hemorrhagic influenza, or
as hemorrhagic pneumonia. We know that the illness, whatever it is,
does not appear to be A/H1N1. We do not know if the disease is a
recombination of A/H1N1 with other viruses or some totally different
virus or if it is in fact a virus. We know that the World Health
Organization (WHO) has had several days to sequence the genes of the
disease but has failed to release this data.

We know that WHO has NOT called for the quarantining of the Ukraine
or the shutdown of all global travel to/from the area of infection and
that this is the same thing that they did when Mexican Swine Flu(A/H1N1) first broke out and that the failure to contain that virus
early on ensured its spread throughout the world.

We know that the internal temperature of the lungs of those with a
terminal case of what many are calling 'Ukrainian Plague' is often
from 130F to 135F. We do know that autopsies show that the lungs are
filled with blood, and are black in color, and that the lung tissue
has turned to mush. We know that patients who first show any signs of
illness usually crash in less than 48 hours, sometimes the same day.

Similar results have been cropping up allover the planet since that post. So far, the H1N1 devotees have failed to make a convincing claim of responsibility for the currently alleged "terrorist." As above, we still have much to learn about the true nature of the several different epicenters on the planet regarding what they have in common and what each considers unique.

Additionally, one must always be careful when condemning others or extrapolating a previous mistake or problem they might have had. One take on her issues reminds me of kangaroo courts composed of counter-peers who feel threatened by alternative references.

Witch-hunts are still fashionable from time-to-time, and one must also consider forgiveness as a possible alternative to continued vituperation and condemnation. Having worked for fifteen years as a behavior modification specialist and another five in counseling technique, one finds that we all have potential for good. The trick is to understand the following:

The essence of training for the good is that “We endeavor to modify behavior through intermittent reinforcement of successive approximations.”



PHARMAHOAX

reply to post by JBA2848


That is very interesting I had no Idea that bodies has been return after so long, knowing the Ukraine political mess they have right now, we will never find out if they are link to the diseases.

reply to post by PHARMAHOAX


Rebecca Carley: "We do NOT know what disease the people were/are coming down with. We do know that doctors are describing the disease as Pneumonic Plague,... or as some type of hemorrhagic fever, or as hemorrhagic influenza, or as hemorrhagic pneumonia. We know that the illness, whatever it is, does not appear to be A/H1N1. We do not know if the disease is a recombination of A/H1N1 with other viruses or some totally different virus or if it is in fact a virus."


Am extremely appreciative of your posting this.

reply to post by calohan


PDF file

You might want to read the above pdf file I linked for you.

Originally posted by nikiano
So, basically, what we all knew in our hearts that would happen, did happen. A mutation occurred in the virus making it more lethal (D225G mutation made the H1N1 virus go deeper into the lungs) and the vaccine does NOT prevent getting infected with this mutation.

Once again: the vaccine does not seem to protect against this more lethal mutation of the virus. Yet the WHO doesn't make an announcement to this effect, thus putting millions of people at risk for severe side effects who might go ahead and get vaccinated anyway.

This is just shameful. People need to weigh all the pros and cons before taking a vaccine. One of the "cons" they should know is that the virus has now mutated into a more deadly form, and the vaccine does not offer any protection from this mutation.

To me, this gives clear evidence that the WHO is totally in bed with the vaccine manufacturers.

Not only is the vaccine not as effective against the D225G mutation, but if you get infected with the D225G H1N1 after recieving the vaccine, the adjuvants in the vaccine will greatly increase your propensity towards a cytokine storm (which is already greatly increased because of the D225G mutation).

Furthermore, as Niman predicts, even if the D225G mutation was not better selected naturally, widespread vaccinations will basically force the D225G strain to become the most common form, because the vaccines will kill off the standard form of H1N1.

Boy, 'lotta good this new fangled vaccination dealy is doin' for humanity, tell yah what.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by seattletruth]

reply to post by PHARMAHOAX


Please use the external source quotes tags when quoting someone and provide links to the quotes.

That lady is referring to the news reports which were coming out of Ukraine in the first days. This discussion has already covered the fact that Ukraine Doctors did not have enough nasal swab test kits, that the kits they had were the type that gives false negatives and that the strain of flu found in Ukraine does not generally show up in nasal swab tests anyway.

The strain does show up in lung tissue samples taken from the dead.

What we do know is that during that first week, when the Doctors were unable to detect the flu virus, they ran every test known to man to try and isolate what was killing so many patients and medical professionals. Pathogens common to the region would have been the first to have been tested for.

We don't have even one single report of any of the pathogens people in this thread are blaming. Then they go beyond Ukraine and claim these same pathogens are responsible for the deaths World-wide.

As I've said, either these few individuals have one serious problem with admitting there is a swine flu due to prior statements made about it being a "hoax" or the goal is just to create conflict on the thread.

Your source lost her MD license for being crazy. I generally don't look to insane people to provide answers that perfectly sane scientists can provide in the thousands. I also do not accept misconceptions as part of the chain of evidence when investigating a conspiracy and this one is chock full of them.

Seasonal vaccines are not big money, for example. They have consistently lost money and most people are not paying for the swine flu vaccine. Government programs which paid for the vaccine mean that the clinics and hospitals giving them out have to do so for free here in the US.

There's a consistent pattern here of people being willing to accept any lie so long as it supports their preconceptions. All that does is wreck the overall credibility of those people even if they have some good points.

reply to post by seattletruth


Niman hasn't released a new commentary updating it but he no longer believes the vaccine will increase the risk or effects of the D225G strain on those who took the "dead virus" vaccine.

So far out of the four points of research to confirm it he's determined that three of them show no added or worse effects for the vaccinated or the public.

The live virus vaccine nasal spray is a different story, however. It's entirely possible the people who took that vaccine may actually be walking incubators for D225G which will kill the unprotected around them while they remain safe.

It's very complicated but he will probably update the commentaries in the next week or so regarding this. He's still saying the vaccine will protect people and that they should take it, a point I disagree with right now due to conversations with other virologists. They say the last week of Dec will be the time to do it if someone should want to.

There will be no new vaccine coming out, at least not in time to matter. The next wave arrives in January and it will be the one to watch out for. I'm heading out to the cabin tonight and won't be back until mid January.

SO ECO...Let us procede:

WILLIAM CAMPBELL DOUGLAS II, M.D.

Pandemic panic still doesn't add up

The feds, Big Pharma and doctors who should know better are all lining up to tell you how safe the swine flu shot is.

Don't you fall for it! Almost every day, I'm seeing new stories about misled people who roll up their sleeves for that "safe" vaccine... and then pass out, get sick or even die.

Let's get real here and look at the facts, not media hysterics.

A 14-year-old athlete in Virginia can barely walk after his swine flu shot. He's struggling with Guillain-Barre syndrome after his vaccine. A young woman in France is facing the same battle – again, right after a swine flu shot.

By some estimates, there was an eight-fold increase in Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare and debilitating autoimmune disorder that can lead to paralysis and death, after the 1976 swine flu vaccination panic.

Are we facing the same thing now? It's hard to say, but clearly something is going on with these dangerous needles.

In China, two people dropped dead right after getting vaccinated. In New York, nurses gave swine flu shots to at least two kids without permission from their parents – sending one of the kids, a 6-year-old epileptic, to the hospital. And U.S. medical workers are fighting courtroom battles to protect their rights and avoid mandatory flu shots.

The contradictions here are endless. On the one hand, the Centers for Disease Control has advised against testing for H1N1 flu since July.

On the other, a new swine flu detection test was just given fast-track approval by the FDA.

The CDC says we don't need to count individual cases anymore... yet everywhere you turn, there are new numbers being tossed around from all directions.

How do we know people are sick if we're not counting them? Why do we need a new and unproven test for the disease if we no longer need to test for it?

Now, Big Pharma is saying maybe people only need half a dose of the swine flu vaccine to get full protection... after telling some people they'd need as many as two or even three doses (Side note: I'll bet my lab coat you'll pay just as much for that half a dirty dose as you do a full one).

Plenty of people have already gotten that now-excessive full dose... with many children getting two shots. Does that mean they've gotten quadruple what they need?

Yes, there's a lot more to this picture than they're letting any of us see... and it may be years before the truth finally comes out.

You've been warned.

My neice is in her residency and was forced to take seasonal and H1N1. My sister was furious. We are all very concerned. Have you seen the girl who developed dystonia after her jab? She can only walk backwards. By the way...does anyone out there have any info what-so-ever that the vaccine works?" Have been searching for the slightest indication that sombody has found a way to determine that a given person was actually protected. No luck. What they need is a test which indicates specific, anecdotal suseptability and then having shown appropriate blood titers after the shot.

Isn't it kinda creepy how these vaccine types are always talking about shots for "target populations?"

PHARMAHOAX

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by seattletruth

 

Niman hasn't released a new commentary updating it but he no longer believes the vaccine will increase the risk or effects of the D225G strain on those who took the "dead virus" vaccine.

So far out of the four points of research to confirm it he's determined that three of them show no added or worse effects for the vaccinated or the public.

The live virus vaccine nasal spray is a different story, however. It's entirely possible the people who took that vaccine may actually be walking incubators for D225G which will kill the unprotected around them while they remain safe.

It's very complicated but he will probably update the commentaries in the next week or so regarding this. He's still saying the vaccine will protect people and that they should take it, a point I disagree with right now due to conversations with other virologists. They say the last week of Dec will be the time to do it if someone should want to.

There will be no new vaccine coming out, at least not in time to matter. The next wave arrives in January and it will be the one to watch out for. I'm heading out to the cabin tonight and won't be back until mid January.

No, actually, if you check his website, you'll see his post from 11/28 (which I posted early this morning), Dr. Niman clearly says that it has been shown that the vaccine does NOT protect against the D225G mutation.


Here, I"ll post it again, right from Dr. Niman's website:

WHO Confirms D225G Vaccine Failure

One isolate from Ukraine with the mutation had changed so that swine flu vaccine probably would not protect against it well, Britain's national medical laboratory reported Friday.