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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 12:48 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

in regard to missing deaths...
2,618,873 sick in ukraine, 601 dead.

still underreported, but closer to the truth...

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:09 PM
on one polish blog there's a poor automatic translation of some info from ukrainian site, but link to the source isn't provided - i'll see if i'll get it from them. still, there's a claim that in Kamianets Podilskyi there are 30 people dying from H1N1 daily. and that's one hospital in one city. also, they were told to never report cases of influenza and pneumonia, to avoid screwing up the statistics.

i know it's hard to verify at this point, but if that's a disinfo, someone worked very hard to make it appear real - mixture of polish and ukrainian words and mistakes just like from google translate. i'll post an update if i'll find out the source of this.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:15 PM

Wow....I never thought about them spreading virus to those countries who refused to sign the vaccine contracts, to scare other countries into signing them.

Holy crap.

Did you think of that theory? If so, kudos to you. I never in a million years would have thought of that, but in a sick way, it make sense. It's like the terrorists killing the hostages one by one until their ransom demands are met.

Jesus....if that theory is true, that is just scary. Scary beyond all imagination.

If it's not true, it would make a darn good disaster movie.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:21 PM
You cannot find the truth by keeping lies in the data. I tell people the Baxter story going around is incorrect and everyone demands proof. Give them the proof and they choose to ignore it.

Meanwhile the stories they choose to believe in have no proof.

Choosing to believe in what best matches preconceptions and bias will not lead to the truth, it leads to fairy tales you can feel comfortable with.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:21 PM
reply to post by nikiano

i don't believe that we have true governments. they are all puppets. it's all one big psyop. like in poland. people don't want the vaccine, minister of health refuses to sign the contract till big pharma will take the responsibility for side effects, people praise her, while H1N1 is being spread via chemtrails. people are getting sick, people die, and before they'll understand what happened, we'll have WHO 'taking care' of our country just like in ukraine, and her decissions won't be important anymore.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:25 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

most of data we have, is bended to some degree by officials, usually more than less. there's nothing we can do, other than to dig deeper. like with death tolls, there's no way we can find real, first hand data, unless directly from some people working in hospitals, and that may be hard, especially in case of ukraine. i can bet they were all warned about the consequences of releasing such information.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:27 PM
reply to post by nikiano

And the fact that countries who did not bother to vaccinate would be more vulnerable to a pandemic making it's way around the World is not possible then, in your opinion?

There wasn't enough vaccine to go around even if those countries had been able to afford it.

Ukraine is getting millions of dollars in medicine, vaccine and assistance for free now so how does that fit into the "you wouldn't pay us so we're going to dose you" theory?

They go around and spread the virus to countries who wouldn't buy the vaccine so they can turn around and give them medicine and vaccine for free?

Wow, that's one well thought out theory alright.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:32 PM

Originally posted by jedi_hamster
i've told her about eco's theory, that NWO wants to kill us using the virus, not the vaccines.

This is not an either/or situation here.
The disease can be dangerous. Most forms of the vaccine can be dangerous.
(I'm sure the elites have a safe way to avoid infection.)

You have read a great deal on this forum showing ways to fight of influenza and avoid the cytokine storm. Remember, whether your body evolved or was made by god, it has been given many systems for self repairing, detoxifying and fighting unwanted intruders. There are always survivors. Understanding the threat and knowing so many ways to keep safe, you are set to be a survivor. Even in the worst infected parts of Lviv, the death rate is minuscule compared with the infection rate.

After you have recovered from catching any one type of H1N1 it doesn't matter what nasty variation they release next. You will have a life-long degree of immunity to all H1N1 infections. You cannot get such a good immunity from a vaccination.

Use Google to learn how vaccines have been used as weapons and to spread disease and infertility. It's not just a case of a few contaminants. Once you let someone scare you into being immunised against this there is no knowing what they might do to you.

that moshe and baxter incidents were blown out of proportion hoaxes to point us in wrong direction.

Baxter have admitted to sending material to be used in vaccination, containing live avian influenza virus, to 4 laboratories throughout Europe. They have never denied that it was 72 kilo of the stuff.
There is no way Baxter would say they did this if it was a lie. It shows them up too badly as dangerously incompetent.

if we're right, NWO plan will result in all the conspiracy theory movement being totally compromised,

Compromising any conspiracy movement is easy. Just pay some people to join and spout theories that sound ridiculous, so the movement can be held up to ridicule, and pay a charismatic individual to spout a great sounding theory that TPTB can easily disprove if it ever gets taken to court.

We are awash with misinformation. To have a chance of seeing the truth you must listen to common sense, and read lots, comparing facts and ideas and not trust anybody.

it's the biggest psyop in human history, and when we'll realize what's really going on... it'll be too late.

Life is an adventure. Stay calm, stay ready, and sleep well at night.

And don't stop having fun.

We are not here to stay alive.
We are here to LIVE!

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:32 PM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

It depends on the country. Adhering to WHO policy on which deaths to count does have a huge effect on minimizing the real impact, you're absolutely correct on that one.

Is some countries we can access municipal and state / region / oblast public health statistics, in the US it makes it possible to see the numbers go in one way and come out another.

In Ukraine we had the hospitals and politicians telling the truth or something close to it about the number of people dying up until the point the WHO showed up.

Now that the WHO is there and controlling the count we won't know anything unless a politician or medical professional speaks out. The oblasts in Ukraine do not publish separate statistics anywhere that I can find.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:43 PM
reply to post by Kailassa

baxter belongs to NWO. what's the problem in sacrificing their credibility? i've stated that many times already, what if NWO decided to look as badly as possible this time? what if baxter said that 'yeah, we did it' on purpose? what if it's all staged to make you believe that that is their agenda, to kill you with the vaccines? i'm not saying vaccines are good, and i'm aware of the problems that come with them. but at the same time, this can be the biggest hoax of all times, and you may be manipulated to believe that there's a conspiracy that in reality looks entirely different. also, hit that conspiracy world would receive because of that, would be much bigger than impact made by some folks posting BS on forums and blogs. because, hey, IT'S BAXTER. THEY SAID THEY DID IT, SO IT HAS TO BE TRUE, THEY WANT TO KILL US WITH VACCINES! well, guess what. if that's a hoax, you're all screwed.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:51 PM

// 19.11.2009 // 15:14 //

Situation with influenza stabilized.

344 people died (updated at 06:47 pm) Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Stepan Havrysh confirms statements made by Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko that an epidemic of influenza and acute respiratory viral infections is diminishing in Ukraine.

"The situation with influenza is diminishing. The curve of influenza, which was the highest on November 4, now has reached its lowest point. Although the number of cases has been increased during Tuesday, we believe that it is situational position" - he said in the air of 5th channel. According to Stepan Gavrish, last year on average 18 people died of influenza and pneumonia every day.

According to the Ministry of Health, over previous day 18 people died of influenza and acute respiratory viral infections in Ukraine, reports Ukrainskaya pravda. In addition, referring to the results of the examinations which were held in London and tin he United States, Stepan Havrysh said that pandemic influenza has not mutated in Ukraine. However, he noted that the second wave of the epidemic may occur either “in December or January”.

Now, according to the first Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council, "the epidemiological threshold is exceeded in 20 regions". The Ministry of Health has confirmed 344 deaths of influenza and acute respiratory viral infections as of November 18 in 23 Regions, Kyiv, Sevastopil and Crimea.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:54 PM
Washington Post: Mutation of Swine Flu in Norway

Scientists in Norway announced Friday they had detected a mutated form of the swine flu virus in two patients who died of the flu and a third who was severely ill.

In a statement, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health said the mutation "could possibly make the virus more prone to infect deeper in the airways and thus cause more severe disease," such as pneumonia.

The institute said there was no indication that the mutation would hinder the ability of the vaccine to protect people from becoming infected or impair the effectiveness of antiviral drugs in treating people who became infected.

Scientists have analyzed about 70 viruses from confirmed Norwegian swine flu cases and found the mutation in only those three patients, Geir Stene-Larsen, the institute's director general, said in the statement.

"Based on what we know so far, it seems that the mutated virus does not circulate in the population, but might be a result of spontaneous changes which have occurred in these three patients," the statement said.

Does anyone seriously believe they aren't aware of what's going on in Ukraine? It sure looks like minimizing the issue and downplaying it rather than "hyping" it to me.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 01:56 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

yeah. i just saw the same info about H1N1 mutation on two polish portals, both releasing exactly same info and downplaying it.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 02:16 PM
All the comments on the Wash Post story are along the lines of "pig flu is a hoax, stop trying to scare people, it's not a big deal, etc, etc"

The public thinks it's nothing to worry about and that the press has exaggerated the level of threat.

As I've said, the disinfo campaign is to downplay the virus and convince people NOT to take the vaccine. They don't have enough, they're limiting who can take it and they are trying to convince people NOT to take it while downplaying the severity of the virus.

Nothing I see fits the theory of "pushing" the "killer vaccine" on people.

Far more people choose not to vaccinate which means they will kill more people by allowing the swine flu to do it's work than they will using a "soft kill" bioweapon vaccine.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 02:43 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Regarding the mutated virus in Norway, please see this post from October 30. They didn't test most people, because they were scared of getting infected. They told people to stay home instead of seeing the doctor. They've detected the mutated virus in only two of the dead so far. And that's because they've only tested 8 of those who died. 2 of 8 tested positive, so there might be more cases that we'll never hear about.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 02:53 PM
reply to post by Hellmutt

yeah, that's exactly what happens everywhere. in poland they're not doing testing as well. right now we have 4 labs able to do proper testing, specialized in H1N1, but each test costs, so doctors are not even doing tests. besides, this new strain attacks lungs very fast, so as eco pointed out not so long time ago, doing tests before the patient is dead... may result in false negatives.

it's amazing how they're comparing number of H1N1 cases and deaths to seasonal influenza data, not mentioning the fact that they're using laboratory confirmed data for H1N1 stats (for above reasons - heavily underestimated), and 'suspected cases' data for seasonal influenza. and people aren't questioning that data, saying that some of us are fearmongering - nothing could be further from the truth i guess.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 03:11 PM
Tamiflu Resistant Strain in Wales

The National Public Health Service for Wales (NPHS) has found person-to-person spread of a strain of swine flu resistant to Tamiflu within a South Wales hospital.

Five patients on a unit treating patients with severe underlying health conditions at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, have been diagnosed with swine flu resistant to Oseltamivir (Tamiflu).

Three appear to have acquired the infection in hospital.

Dr Roland Salmon, Director of the NPHS Communicable Disease Surveillance Centre, said: “The emergence of influenza A viruses that are resistant to Tamiflu is not unexpected in patients with serious underlying conditions and suppressed immune systems, who still test positive for the virus despite treatment.

“In this case, the resistant strain of swine flu does not appear to be any more severe than the swine flu virus that has been circulating since April.

They point out that the patients all have underlying health issues, compromised immune systems, etc.

It might still be a good idea to stock up on the alternative antiviral products in addition or in place of Tamiflu, just to be safe.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 03:18 PM
reply to post by Hellmutt

Add to that the very real possibility that this new strain which hit Ukraine may be harder to detect.

The nature of the receptor domain change means the virus will migrate deep into the lungs rather than remaining in the upper respiratory tract (where the swab tests take samples from).

Getting a sample from the lungs is a very complex and expensive procedure when preformed on live patients so if this strain is indeed causing false negatives as theorized the only way to be sure is to perform the full regimen of lab testing.

Outside of hospitalized cases most Countries are not performing those kind of tests. This means we really have no clue how bad the new strain will be / is or how far it is spreading.

For those who elect not to get the vaccine or cannot (like me) I strongly advise you to have antivirals on hand or have a Dr who will call them in for you quickly. This new strain means you should assume the virus will be affecting you badly and immediate treatment with antivirals is really the only course of action that will save you.

I know people prefer to use various home remedies but I wouldn't take a chance on this one. I'm set up for antivirals for the entire family.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 03:47 PM

Re autopsies, these are currently done in less than 8% of deaths in America.
Health insurance schemes don't seem to cover them and hospitals are rarely funded for them, so in these harsh times they have almost been eliminated. When they are done there is often pressure on the doctor/patholigist to only see what they are told to see.

Abstract: The U.S. autopsy rate has fallen precipitously over the last half century, from 50 percent of bodies to less than eight percent today. Using data for 46 states from 1987 to 2000, we analyze the degree to which the decrease in the autopsy rate is due to better imaging technology or to cost pressures. We find that cost cutting pressures are more responsible for the decline than technology improvements.

[edit on 20/11/09 by Kailassa]

Well if they do not do autospies as much then how does anyone know what we are dealing with exactly. What if something like the plague was going around and there were many deaths wouldn't the do autopsies to see if that is what people are actually dying from. How can they get any try moratility rate numbers on anything without an autotopsy?

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 04:19 PM

D225G mutation now confirmed in NORWAY! (not real headline of course)

The real headline is stated: "Signs That Swine Flu Wave Has Peaked in U.S."

Norway reported finding a mutated virus in three people who died or were severely ill. The mutation, known as D222G on the receptor binding domain, allow the virus to grow deeper in the lungs.

The mutation does not appear to be circulating and may have spontaneously arisen in the three patients, said Geir Stene-Larsen, director of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health. Only 3 of Norway’s 70 tested samples had it.

Asked about that, Dr. Schuchat said the same mutation had also been found in mild cases in several countries, and it did not make the virus resistant to vaccine or to treat
(visit the link for the full news article)

The D222G mutation allows the virus to bind to receptors on cells lining the lungs, which are slightly different from those in the nose and throat. Henry L. Niman, a flu tracker in Pittsburgh, has been warning for a week that D225G — the same mutation under a different numbering system — has been repeatedly found in Ukraine, which is in the grips of a severe outbreak and where surprising numbers of people have died with lung hemorrhages — the kind of pneumonia that can be caused by an immune system’s “cytokine storm” attacking a new virus.


This story confirms that the D225G mutation (same as found in Ukraine), has been confirmed in samples from 3 deaths in Norway. They say nothing is to worry, because only 3 out of 70 samples have the mutation, but we have heard analysis from Niman saying that most likely, this mutation is only able to be found when taken from lung samples (of the dead), not throat or nasal swabs... So basically, they will almost always test negative for this mutation unless they're already dead, so a better sample can be taken!

I started a thread on this article HERE

[edit on 20-11-2009 by seattletruth]

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