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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 08:44 AM
I am beginning to see a bit of a pattern here with this flu.
They were saying before that once H1N1 takes hold; then there is very little of the normal flu around.
Now, H1N1 has indeed had some mutations that make it more deadly; specifically in terms of going deep into the lungs and causing bleeding and pneumonia.
However, it appears that this mutation does not replace all H1N1 like the scenario with H1N1 vs the regular flu. The mutations are unstable. They seem to pop up and cause a lot of harm to the individuals infected, but they do not seem to take over the whole population.

I get the impression that in Ukraine, and elsewhere, there are a number of different variations of H1N1 going around all at the same tiem, like a bowl of different coloured jellybeans.

So yes. There is a new strain more deadly than the regular, not unlike the 1918/9 one, but it is concurrent with lots of less deadly variations. It is not taking over.

Cause for concern, but not for panic.

[edit on 11/20/2009 by wayno]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:17 AM

Originally posted by jedi_hamster
they're spraying the skies all over poland, i saw it myself in my city.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]
Thank you! People like to blame individuals for fearmongering, when all you are doing is spreading the truth, thanks to your first-hand reports! Stay well and keep sending info while you can.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:17 AM
reply to post by wayno

that's something we don't know, but i would be carefull with such statements. numbers of cases are underreported, here in poland for example doctors are refusing to do tests, because that costs, and apart from tamiflu, they have no ideas how to cure it anyway. so the actual numbers of infected people and deaths is much higher. think how many people are dying from pneumonia each year. H1N1 causes pneumonia in severe cases, and such cases may go unnoticed, at least for now. we have to wait till the amount of cases visible will reach such point that it won't be possible to ignore nor underreport it anymore.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:46 AM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

Of course there is room for much error in trying to determine numbers of people sick, numbers of people who died and even what they died of. There is even sufficient cause to wonder about motives of governments and agencies making reports. None of this questionable.

My only point is, regardless of data specifics, it does seem to me that while mutations and recombinations are occurring on an on-going basis, there appears to remain a mix of pathogens out there that is making people sick, possibly including bacteria that might or might not be sprayed from planes; but there is no one new super bug on the loose that is going to get us all.

Even if one develops, my impression is that it soon enough fades into something less harmful. I am of the impression that the need for vaccinating everyone is just unwarranted hype. Normal common sense precautions and reliance on our innate body defenses should do just fine for the majority of us.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:53 AM
I was trying to find some more information today on whether or not the new mutation d225 was spreading to any other countries besides the Ukraine, and it seems, it is now killing people in Norway.

**I still don't know whether I trust the Recombinomics guy or not (seeing as how he owns his own vaccine company), however, so far, he is posting updates. I'll try to see if I can find corroborating evidence from another source.

D225G in Fatal H1N1 Cases in Norway?
Recombinomics Commentary 14:05
November 20, 2009

Laboratory tests from 70 patients are examined, of which eight patients have died. Total is the mutation found in five of the patients. Two of them are dead, while the other three have been hospitalized with serious illness in intensive care units.

The new mutated virus thrives further down the respiratory system than the original. It shuts down the lungs of patients, which means more severe disease than the original virus, which first affects the throat and upper respiratory tract.

Since the new virus in the lungs and is only detected in patients who have been admitted to hospital, experts expect that it is less contagious than has affected most who are infected so far.

Both the vaccine and Tamiflu as a treatment will work also for this variant of the virus, "says director Geir Stene-Larsen at the NIPH.

The above translation suggests that D225G has been found in the lungs of dead and dying patients in Norway. An investigation into the excessive H1N1 deaths in Norway had been ordered and a news conference has been called to discuss the "mutation". The description sounds like the D225G found in fatal cases in Ukraine.


posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:54 AM
This scares me I just hope this is just a temproary thing. The spanish flu went on for 2 years and we have already had thie swine flu for 8 months.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:55 AM
reply to post by wayno

I am beginning to see a bit of a pattern here with this flu.

Apple Valley Ca. U.S.A. Chemtrailer just past right over my house.
Long azz streak across the sky. Others in the distance.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by randyvs]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 10:01 AM

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by wayno

I am beginning to see a bit of a pattern here with this flu.

Apple Valley Ca. U.S.A. Chemtrailer just past right over my house.
Long azz streak across the sky. Others in the distance.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by randyvs]

Ok, this is not quite on topic (sort of, maybe) but I have to admit, I don't know anything about chemtrails. I hear about them all the time, but I thought all jet planes leave contrails in their wake? I remember growing up in the midwest, and I thought every jet that passed overhead left a long white line in their wake.

What is the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail?

Can anyone refer me to good thread on ATS describing the difference between the two? I honestly don't know if I believe in chemtrails, but I'd be open to researching it.

The spraying that was sighted in the Ukraine, right before this infection broke out, that wasn't chemtrails, was it? Wasn't that spraying lower to the ground, and weren't people reporting globules of stuff on their windows the next morning?


[edit on 20-11-2009 by nikiano]

Edit to add: Nevermind providing links, I just found a bunch of threads on chemtrails vs contrails here on ATS.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 10:21 AM
I can confirm that the virus has mutated as this is on the news both in Norway and in Sweden.


The first articles is on swedish and norweigan language. Use google translation.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Albiona]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 10:26 AM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

Ok, it is your choice but it is a pretty scary thought to think that some group is doing this spraying and it's also scary to think that a plague of sorts is occuring....

On another note i hope this thing doesnt get into rats or mice coz if it does then we will be funked... plus it could mutate again into something else!!

To the guy who said he saw planes spraying.... where exactly were you? At what distance? And if you were in the vicinity how come you are ok?

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 10:30 AM
reply to post by nikiano

Ok, this is not quite on topic (sort of, maybe) but I have to admit, I don't know anything about chemtrails. I hear about them all the time, but I thought all jet planes leave contrails in their wake? I remember growing up in the midwest, and I thought every jet that passed overhead left a long white line in their wake.
Contrails are just ice and disipate about one mile behind the
Chemtrails do not disipate at all, instead they leave streaks all the way across the sky, that linger and spread for miles.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 10:51 AM
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

they were flying above my head, more or less. very, very low. those weren't jets. i live in a town in southern poland. since i was observing them through the window, i wasn't directly affected by it i guess. overall i'm more or less fine. some short cough, some very rare and rather mild pains in chest and heart, but i have those for quite some time right now, so i don't relate those to H1N1. this new strain, when it gets into lungs, isn't mild at all. it kills in hours.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 11:40 AM
Ukraine Webcams
WebCam - Ternopil, Ukraine: link

WebCam - Chernivtsi, Ukraine:link

WebCam - Luts'k, Ukraine:link

WebCam - Rivne, Ukraine: link

WebCam - Independence Square - Ukraine:link

Here are some web cams from Ukraine. Seems to be night there presently but I guess we could wait for it to be daylight there and we should see the dead bodies in the streets. If the dead bodies are not in the streets I guess the news article about barricades and dead bodies in the street can be labeled hoax. But im sure some people will say the helicopters took them away.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by JBA2848]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 11:46 AM

Originally posted by dreamseeker

The other major point was something like 200,000 people die each year of "regular" flu on a good year with low death rate and up to 400.000 on a particularly bad year.
. . . .
Countries in the southern hemisphere, such as Australia, have already been through their flu season and I didn't see any reporting that numbers increased there. Why not? The vaccine wasn't available before or during their winter.

It is very strange but what is stranger still is every person who dies no matter what it is has an autopsy. If each person who died from swine flu complications then it would easily be reported. If they can test people for swine flu while alive couldn't the do to after death?

Re Australia, pretty well all our flu cases have been swine flu for the last 5 months, but it appears that no more people are dying of the flu here than do every year. However people are getting sick repeatedly and staying sick for 3 to 6 weeks, and pneumonia has become much more common.
The rates of people taking sick days have skyrocketed, and this is not through fear of catching something, as people here treat it as a nuisance, but don't fear it.

Now summer has started we are in no danger for the next 6 months, and the fact that pretty well everyone has now caught it should mean we would have an immunity to even the deadliest H1N1 mutation if it is released here.

Despite certain claims made which Baxter &Co would be glad to fund, catching a disease gives you a far greater and longer immunity to it and its variants than any immunisation will.

Re autopsies, these are currently done in less than 8% of deaths in America.
Health insurance schemes don't seem to cover them and hospitals are rarely funded for them, so in these harsh times they have almost been eliminated. When they are done there is often pressure on the doctor/patholigist to only see what they are told to see.

Abstract: The U.S. autopsy rate has fallen precipitously over the last half century, from 50 percent of bodies to less than eight percent today. Using data for 46 states from 1987 to 2000, we analyze the degree to which the decrease in the autopsy rate is due to better imaging technology or to cost pressures. We find that cost cutting pressures are more responsible for the decline than technology improvements.

[edit on 20/11/09 by Kailassa]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 11:50 AM
reply to post by JBA2848
Nice links to the webcams, thanks. Seems like all of the 'dead bodies' that I saw were quite animated.......... OH NO! ZOMBIES!

I realize people are dying over there, I just couldn't help myself. Sorry.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by butcherguy]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 11:59 AM
I just heard reports on BBC NEWS that one person from Cardiff has been taken into hospital with a new strain of the virus.... first confirmed case of new strain.... didn't say it was this new one in the ukraine though....

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 12:21 PM
Obviously the chart I posted only has the "official" deaths on it. I wanted to see if anyone would notice the 500 or so missing deaths in Europe.

The WHO will probably cut the total in Ukraine by fifty percent or more before its through.

Dr Niman DOES NOT own a vaccine company. He holds several patents used for detecting pathogens (like cancer) and Recombinomics is his theory on how a virus evolves.

He wants to license his patent to the vaccine companies so they can better predict what strains of virus will be coming years in advance. In this way they could stop future pandemics in the seasonal flu shot.

Most of us here don't take seasonal flu shots but enough people do out there to offer us herd immunity. (In some countries). I'm not aware of any companies using his patent at all right now so to claim he's making money on vaccines may actually be incorrect.

He is a virologist and does know how to analyze sequences plus he posts updates very quickly. I'll use that kind of information from anyone I can trust who publishes online and meets ATS external content rules.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 12:34 PM
How to fight people who see through the official story:
1. Invent an easily disproved conspiracy.
2. Disprove it.
3. Crow.
4. Mock and slander those who have presented an alternate view.
5. Disrupt the thread and take it off on a tangent.
6. Avoid producing facts, as people can use them to show the truth.

The WHO has the agenda of population reduction, primarily in 3rd world countries and of "coloured" minority populations.

The IMF offers money to countries and then grabs them in a stranglehold, dictating internal economic policy and punishing them if they don't do as they are ordered. The Ukraine in October disobeyed these orders, giving a 20% increase to workers and pensioners.

The vaccine companies run a Mafia style protection racket. They spread disease in countries which will not buy vaccines for the latest disease or sign agreements absolving the companies of all financial responsibility for the harm their vaccines do. This allows them to get into a position to safely fulfil the WHO's depopulation agenda.

The CDC is a group of individuals, some bought by the food and drug companies, some trying to do the right thing by Americans. So we here mixed messages from them, depending on who is getting the information out. They may be trying to decrease panic because, as individuals, they are aware of the dangers of this vaccine, and don't want to push people into taking it.

The governments of various countries who have any conscience left are caught between a rock and a hard place. Many are not as blindly unaware as we might assume. They have to find a way to take care of the populations without upsetting the IMF. They have to placate the legal drug Mafia without allowing their populations to be the latest testing ground.

It makes sense that an aware government, seeing the way the 1918 virus has been resurrected and something very like it in circulation now, and seeing the Baxter release of 72 kilo of live Avian Influenza virus, would want to protect its population from forced vaccination by these extortionistic disease-mongers.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 12:42 PM
I believe that this thread has to do with the al qaeda message the days are pregnant thread and the CIA rendition n horse stables..

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 12:47 PM

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I just heard reports on BBC NEWS that one person from Cardiff has been taken into hospital with a new strain of the virus.... first confirmed case of new strain.... didn't say it was this new one in the ukraine though....

I had just been reading about it on the BBC News site.

Health officials say a Tamiflu-resistant strain of swine flu has spread between hospital patients. Five patients on a unit treating people with severe underlying health conditions at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff were infected. Three appear to have acquired the infection in hospital.

They are thought to be the first confirmed cases of person-to-person transmission of a Tamiflu-resistant strain in the world.

This is what I am most interested in. To know if the virus has started reacting/behaving differently in countries other than Ukraine and this strain is apparently Tamiflu resistant.

Hmmmm...... now is this to convince more people to have the vaccine because at the moment people think they don't need it because, if they get the virus, then they can have Tamiflu.

Or, is this really a 'new' strain? It took ages to find out about the small changes in the Ukraine strain how would they know about this new strain so quickly?

Any other countries reporting new strains now?

Seems each day just leads to more questions, for me!

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