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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by zeddissad
reply to post by Maya00a
 


I'm afraid that you are comparing annual statistic with 14 days statistics. Or do you think that people on ATS will fill 200+ pages with same crap with which MSM feed us for 8 month? I know that the thread is looong but if you follow it then you realize that there is something important and you will find tons of good pros and cons arguments here. Honestly - this thread is best critical information source which I can find just know.

regards
z.


I've been following the thread since the beginning and have posted a few times.

I was quoting someone else's statistics that they'd posted and was referring to infections across the world since the beginning, in April, not just Ukraine figures since the 28th October.

Just an anxious mum that is reading as much info as possible to be able to make informed decisions on behalf of my kids.




posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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For all of you who follow labvirus . com, I just want to tell you a little story.
Yesterday, they posted a video of some guy talk about DUMBS (Deep Underground Military Bases). Basically, this guy mentioned that it's a plague (I believe he said pneumonic) in the Ukraine, that the DUMBs in the USA have more activity than normal going on (which he said was the case around 9/11) and he then went into the RFID chip. He said the purpose of the plague was to wipe all of us out.
So, I pointed out a couple of things on the comment section:
1. If it were the plague the fatality rate would be WAY, WAY higher. Possibly into the 100s of 1000s, definitely into the 10s of 1000s.
2. If they want to kill us all with the plague, why do they need the RFID chip at all. Seems kind of unnecessary to tag a corpse...

Anyway, I've left a couple of comments there before. When I woke up this morning, the comments above were removed.
My point of relaying this tale is that it seems to me that A LOT of people have an agenda. Don't buy into everything you read. If these guys thought I was wrong and had a reason for it, they could have just replied to my comment. They did not.
Keep a level head when reading or listening to MSM and Alternative Media.

This has been a public service announcement from the LevelHeaded Conspiracy Theorists Union.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 19-11-2009 by really]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Everyone is so worried about swine flu mutations from Ukraine while ignoring the larger threat.

European techno music.

We need a vaccine for that!

I saw the D.U.M.B.S. video also and agree, it was dumb. It's labeled as proof that the elite are moving into the rabbit holes and showed nothing at all in the way of evidence. I've seen those same photos a million times, nothing new there and half of them are shopping mall parking garages, the flood chamber beneath Tokyo and so on.

You have to dig Doc and his indoor shades though. I keep waiting for him to announce "WKRP Radio-o-O-o-O".

Anyone using the words "pneumonic plague" and "Ukraine" within an inch of each other is immediately ignored by me as an uninformed source.

I'll accept that the Teletubbies infected Ukraine with VD before I'll listen to one more "plague" claim.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by JJay55
"The lack of a more detailed report on the sequences generated by Mill Hill continues to cause concern. Initial reports suggested there was no reassortment or anti-viral resistance markers identified, but reports did not exclude small changes, including acquisition of receptor binding domain changes such as polymorphisms at HA position 225 (D225E, D225G, and D225N). D225N was linked to the global expansion of amantadine resistant H3N2, and D225G was isolated from lungs of fatal cases in Sau Paulo, Brazil, as well as pandemic isolates from 1918 (A/New York/1/1918) and 1919 (A/London/1/1919)."

Ok, so what the heck does this mean???
And what is the genetic thing mentioned?


Polymorphisms are gene variations that can occur within a single species.

One strain is now resistant to an antiviral, Amantadine.

Swine flu in Brazil has changed to be more like the 1918 Spanish Flu virus which was retrieved in 1997 from frozen bodies in Alaska and recently reconstituted.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


It's not just the video, it's labvirus . com, too. They put up every snippet of "news" about this epidemic and people buy into it. If you question them, they often take down your comments. One article posted there blames satanists for this outbreak, another the Jews. I commented on that with something along the lines of, "One article posted here blames satanists for this outbreak, another the Jews. Which on is it guys? Do you have any proof of either?"
Guess what? Comment removed.
The moral of the story is, when it comes to your government, media, outside government organizations and the alternative media - don't rock the boat. Your questions will not be appreciated.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Maya00a
 


My apologies then. Maybe that little devil named Fear bit affected my reasoning - I live 700Km west of Ukraine border but last thing which I want to do is spread panic. Thank you for your calm post and I wish you and your family the best.

regards
z



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
Everyone is so worried about swine flu mutations from Ukraine while ignoring the larger threat.

European techno music.

We need a vaccine for that!

Don't wary. We are almost extinct specie. Be aware of french hiphop and emo BS. BTW many years ago Spiral tribe disappeared in US so maybe your neighbour is sleeping cell

For the record I listen classical and jazz. Techno is good for 3 day dance party not for listening at your living room.

EDIT: this is off topic so MODs delete it please

[edit on 19-11-2009 by zeddissad]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by zeddissad

Originally posted by ecoparity
Everyone is so worried about swine flu mutations from Ukraine while ignoring the larger threat.

European techno music.

We need a vaccine for that!

Don't wary. We are almost extinct specie. Be aware of french hiphop and emo BS. BTW many years ago Spiral tribe disappeared in US so maybe your neighbour is sleeping cell

For the record I listen classical and jazz. Techno is good for 3 day dance party not for listening at your living room.

EDIT: this is off topic so MODs delete it please

[edit on 19-11-2009 by zeddissad]

Yeah we needed a little break of flu talk. Thanks for the pleasant distraction!



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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The other major point was something like 200,000 people die each year of "regular" flu on a good year with low death rate and up to 400.000 on a particularly bad year.

What does that mean in relation to this outbreak? About 200 people worldwide have died of swine flu and another say 30 of this new variation?

Well the numbers seem to represent a much much lower mortality rate than regular flu and the rest is media blowing it out of proportion to get people to vaccinate.

And supposedly the WHO changed the definition of a pandemic from highly contagious disease with a hi mortality rate, to just highly contagious/infectious diesease with no mention of mortality rate.

.....SNIP



I was asking something similar earlier in the thread.

So far the 'official' numbers aren't anywhere near as high as the seasonal flu.

How can anyone possibly calculate an 'official' mortality rate when they're not even testing everyone showing symptoms? I understand that they're only testing cases admitted to hospital or if someone dies.

I just don't understand how anyone, official or otherwise, can possibly even begin to calculate how deadly this virus is (old strain or new strain or whatever the correct term is).

Countries in the southern hemisphere, such as Australia, have already been through their flu season and I didn't see any reporting that numbers increased there. Why not? The vaccine wasn't available before or during their winter.

The whole saga is very strange!


It is very strange but what is stranger still is every person who dies no matter what it is has an autopsy. If each person who died from swine flu complications then it would easily be reported. If they can test people for swine flu while alive couldn't the do to after death?


[edit on 19-11-2009 by dreamseeker]

[edit on 19-11-2009 by dreamseeker]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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The stats can be a bit misleading. Seasonal flu is measured in each location according to the amount of damage it does in a "season". This usually covers an entire year even though the season doesn't last the whole year.

The swine flu is coming in and matching an entire season's worth of damage in one week or two. Add to that the way pandemics come in waves and hit a country over and over again and at the end of it all, if you compared the numbers apples to apples the pandemic is worse.

Lastly the pandemic virus average age of death is 19. Seasonal flu usually affects only the sick, the old and infants. Swine flu is killing healthy, young adults and children who would not be threatened by seasonal flu.

Hopefully the pandemic will burn itself out or peak without matching the virulence of the 1918 pandemic. That's the real concern here, that we have yet to see this virus at it's worst. Ukraine has given us a small hint of what we could be in for and even that is mild compared to the larger potential.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


Well the CDC has changed their offical information over and over again. I have watched this happen. We went from 2,000 swine flu deaths down to 877. How does this happen. Is it being overreported or underreported. I do not want to be told a bunch of lies by the CDC I want it straight! If 10,000 people in america have died from swine flu well let me know.
Maybe the Urkraine situation is what everyone is going through? How do we knew when something does not add up?



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


news.xinhuanet.com...


U.S. reports 572 flu-related deaths, 5,486 hospitalizations in past week


www.chinaview.cn 2009-09-26 08:33:15 Print

HOUSTON, Sept. 25 (Xinhua) -- The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Friday reported that 572 people had died of influenza and pneumonia-associated complications in the past week, bringing the death toll to 936 since the beginning of September.

Meanwhile, according to the latest statistics released by the CDC, 5,486 people across the country have been admitted last week to hospitals resulting from all types or subtypes of influenza, not just those from the A/H1N1 influenza virus, bringing the total number to 10,082.

In an effort to add additional structure to the aggregate reporting, the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists (CSTE) and the CDC have developed new case definitions for influenza-associated hospitalizations and deaths to be applied for the 2009-2010 influenza season, formally beginning from Oct. 4.

This new system was implemented on Aug. 30, 2009 and replaces the weekly report of laboratory confirmed A/H1N1-related hospitalizations and deaths since July.

States can now report to the CDC either laboratory confirmed or pneumonia and influenza syndromic hospitalizations and deaths resulting from all types or subtypes of influenza. To allow states to implement the new case definition, counts were reset to zero by the CDC on Aug. 30, 2009.


They did say the numbers were reset but they did it quietly and nobody caught it. I posted it on a couple of threads when I seen it.
"To allow states to implement the new case definition, counts were reset to zero by the CDC on Aug. 30, 2009."



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


All the evidence I've seen points to the CDC, WHO and News Media under reporting the issue and manipulating the statistics to minimize the impact.

Theories on this range from an economic preservation agenda to panic prevention to keep people from demanding vaccines that are in short supply and so on.

Some think the issue is being hyped and emphasized.

I don't agree with that, I think they do want people to take it seriously but don't want to create panic. The US and other govts ran a lot of drills with scenarios involving "vaccine riots" where people became violent when there wasn't enough vaccine.

This doesn't exactly fit the popular conspiracy that the plan is to get people to take the "killer" vaccine so it gets ignored.

I've always taken the approach that if the evidence does not fit there might be a problem with the theory.

A very vocal and passionate vaccine rejection movement is complicating the issue as well.

I see a consistent and long running effort to hide the real level of danger. Since Mexico the stats have been downplayed, sequences delayed and the results minimized as much as possible. There is a narrow area of disinfo the WHO and CDC can operate in, they don't outright lie they just kind of bend the facts and hope we'll all go along with it.

Thanks to the state of news reporting in the World, they seem to be getting away with it, indeed.


[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


Believe me I caught it! I saw as soon as they changed their reporting again. I even posted about it on here.I called the CDC and get a BS answer. I am so angry that we are not being told the real truth from the Urakraine, the USA or the world!
If we add up all the numbers together I wander how many that would be. It seems like a clever way of disguising the true information. How hard is it to give straight forward stats. Are the people that give the information to reports idoits or simply lying to us. I want to know the truth!



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by nikiano
. . . .
If you're going to keep putting yourself out there as an expert, you should reveal what you do for a living. After all, when you go to medical continuing education program, every speaker has to disclose their biases, i.e. they have to reveal who they work for, and whether or not they are getting paid any "consulting fees" by any drug companies or other organizations.

I have just pointed out over and over again how biased his posts sound, that that I would like to know what he does for a living and who is paying his salary, etc... since now he's on here giving medical advice.

I never once asked him to leave the thread, nor do I want him to leave. There have been many posts that he has made to this thread that I have found very valuable. However, that does not mean that I also do not find his posts without bias.
. . . .

It's like the rice pudding sprinkled with arsenic my dear old mother used to feed me. If you're hungry enough it's worth eating anyway, and you can get immune to the arsenic. If someone is sprinkling propaganda onto the information they give, they can still be just as lovable as my mother was.

Btw I really appreciate the sincerity and integrity of your posts. You help make this thread worth reading.

What do you think of the reports of the WHO using tetanus vaccines to cause infertility in girls in Nicaragua and the Philippines? Do you see any possibility of the swine flu vaccine reducing female fertility?


"One must take draconian measures of demographic reduction against the will of the populations. Reducing the birth rate has proved to be impossible or insufficient. One must therefore increase the mortality rate. How? By natural means. Famine and sickness" Robert McNamara


Thank you, Kailassa,

Actually, I have never heard the reports of the WHO using tetanus vaccines to cause infertility in Nicaragua and the Phillipines. Can you direct me to some links so I can read about it?

Thanks!



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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www.recombinomics.com...


D225G Lung Tropism Driving H1N1 False Negatives?
Recombinomics Commentary 23:17
November 19, 2009


The recently released H1N1 Ukraine sequences by Mill Hill provide additional insight into the evolution of H1N1. Ten isolates were sequenced, including HA from all 10. Four had the predicted receptor binding domain change D225G, which has been found on multiple H1N1 genetic backgrounds. All four of the sequences with D225G were from the four fatal cases. Although it is possible that there are two distinct H1N1 viruses in circulation, it is more likely that the virus is present as a mixture and those with higher concentration of D225G produce high concentrations of virus in lungs, leading to cytokine storms and deaths. Isolates with mixed signals coding for position 225 in H1N1 have been deposited at Genbank, supporting the mixture hypothesis.

These mixtures could be generating false negatives in cases where the level of D225G is high. Virus with D225G would quickly move to the lower respiratory tract and the low levels of wild type in the upper respiratory tract would be clear by the host's immune response. These patients would be infected and seriously ill, but the reduction or absence of virus in the upper respiratory tract would test negative. The CDC has warned that rapid tests have a sensitivity of 10-70% . Thus, in some circumstances only 10% of H1N1 infected sample test positive. This low sensitivity seems to be somewhat linked to H1N1 samples.

The negative data would lead to more testing for other respiratory viruses, which may explain the data reported for rhinoviruses in the Philadelphia area. No unusual strain has emerged, suggesting that the viruses may simply represent opportunistic infections associated with the H1N1 infection that is testing negative.
?



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


They seem to like using "technicalities" to hide the number of deaths.

As an example, people who die form swine flu die from any number of problems caused by the infection - cytokine storms that wreck the lungs and leave the patients drowning in blood, heart attacks, organ failure - there's a pretty long list.

First they come and in and say only lab confirmed positives for H1N1 will be counted among the dead as having died from H1N1. This let's them slow down the release of stats and pull the big number back down to a small one.

Then they look at a patient who died and say, oh, he died of drowning, not the swine flu and they don't count him. Mexico wanted to minimize the number of dead to keep a tourism industry afloat so they were all too happy to let the WHO play this game there.

They can play that game all day long....



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Just found this on www.theflucase.com

Unconfirmed reports are coming in that thousands of people in what appears to be a rural area under quarantine in the western Ukraine have been killed by vaccines.

A Ukrainian woman who crossed into neighbouring Poland told people there that she had driven into the Ukraine to meet a friend but was stopped about 60 km from the border and told that parts of the Western Ukraine were closed at a distance of about 100 kilometers from the border with Poland.

These people allegedly told her that there were thousands of dead people lying on the streets inside those closed off areas.

Also, there are mass graves filled with bodies covered with lime.

The woman said the people had died as a result of vaccinations. The vaccines allegedly came from France.


More of the story:

www.theflucase.com... tid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

So maybe this has been a testing of the vaccine which has killed those in Ukraine



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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I AM NOT SAYING I BELIEVE THIS but there is now a story going round that there have been mass deaths and bodies in the streets in Ukraine
www.theflucase.com... tid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en
???
Hopefully it will be debunked.
[edit on 19-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 19-11-2009 by unicorn1]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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So, I thought I'd give you all an update on our hospital situation.

The hospital that I work in (along with every other hospital in my state) was shipped quite a lot of free antiviral medications (Tamiflu, Relenza, etc..) from the State Health Department back in May, when they figured out that the flu epidemic would probably be worse than previous years.

We've hardly been using any at all, because we just haven't seen that many flu patients this year!

Last week, the state health department called us and asked us how much we have left. They were surprised that we had so much left, when the other hospitals in town were already asking for more. Starting last week, we (and every other hospital in Arizona) now has to fax the health department a running quantity of how many antivirals we have left in our supply.

Also, the health department stipulated that:

1. We cannot charge patients for the anti-viral medications that we got from the department of health, since our hospital got them for free.

2. We cannot dispense any antivirals to any patients unless they test positive for influenza. This is to prevent people who don't really need it from getting the medicines, so we can save it for those who do need it.


So, that means that if you're sick in Arizona with flu symptoms, and if you go to the hospital, unless you test positive, you cannot get the anti-virals. (Unless the hospital got them from somewhere other than the State Health Department, which is possible.)

Now that the new mutation on the virus seems to be pushing the virus deep into the respiratory system (i.e. into the lungs rather than in the naso-pharyngeal area), I wonder if everyone with a severe case will test negative for influezna? Hmmmm....


Edit to add:

Well, it is my birthday today, so I'm going to go out and party with some friends! Talk to you all tomorrow!


Good luck, Ukraine. I hope those reports aren't true about thousands dead in the streets.....

[edit on 19-11-2009 by nikiano]



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