Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by jedi_hamster
reply to post by butcherguy

 

then maybe ask some mod to ban everyone trying to do personal attacks here from now on. it's a great thread, but from time to time 2-3 persons appear and try to discredit eco's theory and my posts as well, without even trying to proof their claims. if someone thinks something about someone else, (s)he should take it to U2U - such issues are nothing compared to the importance of the subject we're dealing with here, but at the other hand they successfully block any possibility to claim own opinion, because one immediately gets bashed right in the head.

like kids.
PEOPLE ARE DYING, DAMMIT.

I am not bashing eco. I told him he has a right to post his opinion just like anyone else. However, he seems to be putting himself out there as an expert, yet he refuses to say what he does for a living, or what organizations he is affiliated with. I have simply asked him 3 or 4 times to clairfy that, because his posts sound extremely biased, but he refuses to. To me, that is suspicious.

If you're going to keep putting yourself out there as an expert, you should reveal what you do for a living. After all, when you go to medical continuing education program, every speaker has to disclose their biases, i.e. they have to reveal who they work for, and whether or not they are getting paid any "consulting fees" by any drug companies or other organizations.

I have just pointed out over and over again how biased his posts sound, that that I would like to know what he does for a living and who is paying his salary, etc... since now he's on here giving medical advice.

I never once asked him to leave the thread, nor do I want him to leave. There have been many posts that he has made to this thread that I have found very valuable. However, that does not mean that I also do not find his posts without bias.

We all have our own biases. I merely want to know if his biases come from within.....or from without. Rather, is he here of his own accord, or has he been sent here to do some work for another organization?

It's a simple question, yet he refuses to answer. That is not bashing....it is merely being persistent. As long as he is persistent in posting his expert opinion over and over again, I will be persistent in asking who he works for, over and over again. It's called checks and balances. If he would just tell us what he does for a living, I'd stop asking him.

Like I said, some of what he posts is valuable. Just because a drug company funds a continuing education program doesn't mean that the CE is all wrong. It just means that you have to take what the presenter gives you with a grain of salt, and a bit of discernment.






[edit on 19-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 19-11-2009 by nikiano]

I did some looking into this, and only two articles of interest came up. But boy, are they interesting!!

Lets take a look at the first, found here: Bioterrorism in the Ukraine?
This is a pretty informative article giving the rundown of what we know, what we don't know, on line with many theories presented here. A very interesting read to catch up on things, and perhaps refresh yourself on a few facts you may have overlooked in 200 pages.

Now, this is the interesting one! Sep 2009 Interpol had a "Black Death" simulation
"In September 2009 Interpol had a simulation. What they simulated was a "global bioterrorism attack" and it was called the "black death scenario". Interestingly that scenario has now came to be a close reality with the pneumonic outbreak in Ukraine."

It is starting to look more and more like this event was planned, or at the very least, expected.

Thanks for the posts. Yes, it reminds us of the "drills" that happened on 9/11 and 7/7....just before the attacks.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by nikiano
Thanks for the posts. Yes, it reminds us of the "drills" that happened on 9/11 and 7/7....just before the attacks.
[edit on 19-11-2009 by nikiano]

uh oh, Christmas is coming. Christian holiday, same as 911 was a Christian holiday and that's the MO.
And with Iran threatening this week. And Obama stalling on the Afghan decision this might very well be a showdown.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JJay55]

reply to post by JJay55


it means that H1N1 currently killing people in ukraine, as well as in poland, is very similiar to H1N1 from 1918. here in poland we have exactly same cases - H1N1 + heavy pneumonia + black lungs filled with blood. same as in ukraine, so i guess it's exactly the same strain.

i've heard rumors that in poland, despite the official statistics, it's even more deadly than in ukraine. as a matter of fact, it's possible - first case of death was reported around 4 days, if not less, after they've started sprayings. and those are probable cause, since after that new cases began to appear all over the country.

Originally posted by JJay55
uh oh, Christmas is coming. Christian holiday, same as 911 was a Christian holiday and that's the MO.
And with Iran threatening this week. And Obama stalling on the Afghan decision this might very well be a showdown.

Christmas is an interesting thing to bring up. Especially with the fact many sources are saying to expect the worst in December.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by asianeko]

reply to post by nikiano


biased or not - that's YOUR opinion. as such, take it to U2U. this is conspiracy related forum, do you really expect people to reveal their personal details here? also, i don't recall him calling himself an expert, neither i'm calling myself an expert. i guess he called Niman an expert, but when it comes to Niman - you can google his credentials i guess. when it comes to people posting here, if you're considering someone an expert - that's your opinion. he's open to critics, just like i am. to critics based on facts, not on accusations. prove to him that he's wrong, and he'll agree. instead, you're expecting that he's either NWO insider or he has no right to has the knowledge he has. it doesn't work this way. you would be amazed knowing what i know. still, there are things not meant to be shared, since everyone has to discover his piece of truth on his own, otherwise one won't believe.

end this already. discussing it here any further is pointless. period.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Common cup or plate is problem especially with bacterial infections - streptococus and staphilococus families and so on. Viruses (here kind of flu) usually use respiratory mucosa as pathway into the body. Now they report also possibility of infection through eyes. I think - and please correct me - that there is much greater risk of infection in room with coughing man then if you share cup with him, shake his hand or even kiss him. I live in quite wild community with very low hygiene standard then rest of society think is normal. Yes we had troubles with some illnesses but nothing out of normal. Yes everybody here got some african beast after our friend came back from Mali - but I'm pretty sure that situation would be same with higher hygiene standard. Just one point: If you are in contact with various bugs on regular basis, then your immune system is much stronger. Our children have 3-4 time stronger resistance against hepatitis than average population - laboratory confirmed on 3 cases. Dirt and body fluids interchange are not your enemies if you can keep it in reasonable proportions.

reply to post by jedi_hamster
I forgot to say... YOU are in Poland, we need members on the ground where this disease, whatever it is, is. I want to thank you for what you have brought so far and am looking forward to more 'on the scene' reports.

reply to post by butcherguy


my comment about genetic changes in H1N1 under the post on one of polish portals, stating that there's no mutation, was already removed. we'll see where it goes. as long as i have proper internet access and am alive, i will be posting here. if i'll suddenly stop, that will probably mean that either i don't have internet access anymore, they've censored certain sites like ATS, or that i'm dead.

Originally posted by nikiano
. . . .
If you're going to keep putting yourself out there as an expert, you should reveal what you do for a living. After all, when you go to medical continuing education program, every speaker has to disclose their biases, i.e. they have to reveal who they work for, and whether or not they are getting paid any "consulting fees" by any drug companies or other organizations.

I have just pointed out over and over again how biased his posts sound, that that I would like to know what he does for a living and who is paying his salary, etc... since now he's on here giving medical advice.

I never once asked him to leave the thread, nor do I want him to leave. There have been many posts that he has made to this thread that I have found very valuable. However, that does not mean that I also do not find his posts without bias.
. . . .

It's like the rice pudding sprinkled with arsenic my dear old mother used to feed me. If you're hungry enough it's worth eating anyway, and you can get immune to the arsenic. If someone is sprinkling propaganda onto the information they give, they can still be just as lovable as my mother was.

Btw I really appreciate the sincerity and integrity of your posts. You help make this thread worth reading.

What do you think of the reports of the WHO using tetanus vaccines to cause infertility in girls in Nicaragua and the Philippines? Do you see any possibility of the swine flu vaccine reducing female fertility?

"One must take draconian measures of demographic reduction against the will of the populations. Reducing the birth rate has proved to be impossible or insufficient. One must therefore increase the mortality rate. How? By natural means. Famine and sickness" Robert McNamara

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by nikiano
. . . .
If you're going to keep putting yourself out there as an expert, you should reveal what you do for a living. After all, when you go to medical continuing education program, every speaker has to disclose their biases, i.e. they have to reveal who they work for, and whether or not they are getting paid any "consulting fees" by any drug companies or other organizations.

I have just pointed out over and over again how biased his posts sound, that that I would like to know what he does for a living and who is paying his salary, etc... since now he's on here giving medical advice.

I never once asked him to leave the thread, nor do I want him to leave. There have been many posts that he has made to this thread that I have found very valuable. However, that does not mean that I also do not find his posts without bias.
. . . .

It's like the rice pudding sprinkled with arsenic my dear old mother used to feed me. If you're hungry enough it's worth eating anyway, and you can get immune to the arsenic. If someone is sprinkling propaganda onto the information they give, they can still be just as lovable as my mother was.

Btw I really appreciate the sincerity and integrity of your posts. You help make this thread worth reading.

What do you think of the reports of the WHO using tetanus vaccines to cause infertility in girls in Nicaragua and the Philippines? Do you see any possibility of the swine flu vaccine reducing female fertility?

"One must take draconian measures of demographic reduction against the will of the populations. Reducing the birth rate has proved to be impossible or insufficient. One must therefore increase the mortality rate. How? By natural means. Famine and sickness" Robert McNamara

Did you guys watch the video of the swine flu nun on youtube? Posted in here on a thread somewhere it is a 6 part series and she mentions a few things...

One of which your post reminded me of, which was one of the main ingredients of the H1N1 vacination was a chemical patented for use in the new permanent birth control shot... (other ingredients super high mercury levels etc. many experts claim they will not be vacinated themselves or for thier families)

The other major point was something like 200,000 people die each year of "regular" flu on a good year with low death rate and up to 400.000 on a particularly bad year.

What does that mean in relation to this outbreak? About 200 people worldwide have died of swine flu and another say 30 of this new variation?

Well the numbers seem to represent a much much lower mortality rate than regular flu and the rest is media blowing it out of proportion to get people to vaccinate.

And supposedly the WHO changed the definition of a pandemic from highly contagious disease with a hi mortality rate, to just highly contagious/infectious diesease with no mention of mortality rate.

Also they can mandate or order countries to administer the vacinations making they madatory etc. That imho is the scary part of the whole scenario!

Originally posted by zeddissad
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Common cup or plate is problem especially with bacterial infections - streptococus and staphilococus families and so on. Viruses (here kind of flu) usually use respiratory mucosa as pathway into the body. Now they report also possibility of infection through eyes. I think - and please correct me - that there is much greater risk of infection in room with coughing man then if you share cup with him, shake his hand or even kiss him. I live in quite wild community with very low hygiene standard then rest of society think is normal. Yes we had troubles with some illnesses but nothing out of normal. Yes everybody here got some african beast after our friend came back from Mali - but I'm pretty sure that situation would be same with higher hygiene standard. Just one point: If you are in contact with various bugs on regular basis, then your immune system is much stronger. Our children have 3-4 time stronger resistance against hepatitis than average population - laboratory confirmed on 3 cases. Dirt and body fluids interchange are not your enemies if you can keep it in reasonable proportions.

How much cancer do people get in your community that has no obvious cause? I have read that having a fever every now and then can burn up cancer cells before they get a foothold.

I believe people are too afraid of infections these days. It's better to look after your health so you can fight them off, and to make sure your children are exposed to childhood illnesses when they are young and healthy. That way people grow up strong and can trust their bodies to look after themselves.

It's a fact that people who catch the flu can expect to have some immunity to that type of flu for the rest of their lives.

according to official (faked to avoid panic) reports, there's a 5th victim of H1N1 in poland. actually, he died at friday, but the reason of death being H1N1 was just confirmed.

remember what i've said about the time between first sprayings and first deaths? they've started sprayings at thursday/friday night. first death: at friday. of course polish minister of health claims that 'H1N1 isn't causing any deaths in poland'.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

Originally posted by tnt3kgt

SNIP.......

The other major point was something like 200,000 people die each year of "regular" flu on a good year with low death rate and up to 400.000 on a particularly bad year.

What does that mean in relation to this outbreak? About 200 people worldwide have died of swine flu and another say 30 of this new variation?

Well the numbers seem to represent a much much lower mortality rate than regular flu and the rest is media blowing it out of proportion to get people to vaccinate.

And supposedly the WHO changed the definition of a pandemic from highly contagious disease with a hi mortality rate, to just highly contagious/infectious diesease with no mention of mortality rate.

.....SNIP

I was asking something similar earlier in the thread.

So far the 'official' numbers aren't anywhere near as high as the seasonal flu.

How can anyone possibly calculate an 'official' mortality rate when they're not even testing everyone showing symptoms? I understand that they're only testing cases admitted to hospital or if someone dies.

I just don't understand how anyone, official or otherwise, can possibly even begin to calculate how deadly this virus is (old strain or new strain or whatever the correct term is).

Countries in the southern hemisphere, such as Australia, have already been through their flu season and I didn't see any reporting that numbers increased there. Why not? The vaccine wasn't available before or during their winter.

The whole saga is very strange!

reply to post by JJay55


What do you mean 9/11 was a Christian holiday??? No it isn't.

I've said several times that my professional background is and always had been in my bio within my member profile for all to see. I even repeated that the last time certain people started in with accusations again.

I've also been up front that we have a strange number of PHDs in the family, more than one working in the biotech field.

I'm the black sheep of the family, I worked in technology.

I retired at 40 and have absolutely zero professional or financial stake in this.

I haven't pushed vaccines at all, I've taken a balanced view on them. I take a balanced view on science as well. The anti vaccine crowd can't handle that, you have to agree with them 100 percent or they attack you.

I call that extremism. "I don't like vaccines so no one should be able to have them" while making all sorts of claims about them that are just ignorant. They don't work, they cause disease, they contain hidden things to kill you....

You can have your opinion, I can have mine. Everyone who disagrees with yours , even a little is NOT an agent of some kind or working for pharma.

Childish, dear - very, very childish.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by Kailassa


We are those dirty monsters how cruise Europe and spread techno. So if I'm talking about community then I refer to something closer to gypsy family then to village/city community. Probably better word is commune. And we are still quite young even after 15 years of this live on keta ... and pepper spray (yeh! CA soundsystem is working for 15 years now!) so its bit early for cancer statistics I hope.
Otherwise you got the point.

regards
z.

reply to post by Maya00a


I'm afraid that you are comparing annual statistic with 14 days statistics. Or do you think that people on ATS will fill 200+ pages with same crap with which MSM feed us for 8 month? I know that the thread is looong but if you follow it then you realize that there is something important and you will find tons of good pros and cons arguments here. Honestly - this thread is best critical information source which I can find just know.

regards
z.

Just wanted to add a link to a new thread about increased numbers of deaths being reported in Britain.

ATS Thread

The expansion of the government's inoculation programme was revealed as the latest weekly bulletin showed a sharp rise in patient deaths and the number of children being admitted to hospital.

Any other countries reporting a sharp rise?