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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:00 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

well... i've said, 'reported'. in poland 29 may be too low as well... chemtrails started around one week ago. according to that... we should get a sudden rise of death toll in this week.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:01 PM

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by martin3030

Be careful. They arrested several bloggers in Ukraine for spreading "disinfo" when they should be arresting the politicians and newspapers for that. Early on the claimed that someone was forging press releases from the ministry of health using their letterhead which is probably acting as their legal precedent.

I expect this type of thing will be seen in other countries as the outbreak widens.

Allegedly, Austria went after Jane BurgerBilder and pulled her medical reporting license yesterday. I haven't been able to find a press report on that but heard it from a local.

Yes understand.

I was talking to my OH on skype and giving reports she said she did not hear of them-again its ironic that I am in UK and she is in Ukraine and its me telling HER.
I have booked to go end of December-fly to Kiev and overnight train to Kriv Rig which is central part.
I am gonna take her some decent masks and Vits -theres no shortage here in UK.I checked on travel insurance and its still same price-I was expecting mammoth increase.
I am getting loads of emails from Apartment and travel companies in Kiev offering big reductions for example apartment that was $80 now $60 thats 25% off.Of course if your lady is in Ukraine she can sort out apartment outside train station for $30 a night no problems...haggling is something they are brilliant at doing.

I have made 4 trips to Ukraine in last 18 months with no probs.
Prior to that I was married to a Russian from South....Uk Foreign office website say if you go to Stavropol region you are on your own matey...ha ha
When I told them there they did not believe it.
Of course I had # from the military who stop me at the airport -Milneralni Vodi where anything goes-but the black leather jackets and AK 47 in your face disappear so quickly with a $50 a small price to pay.

So yes I am aware of the aggro that follows speaking out-but after 14 trips to Russia Ukraine is a breeze.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:11 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Eco, what do these sequences mean?

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:18 PM
Seeing arrests of blogger really scare me...I will be returning to Ukraine soon, and once I am there will keep writing on the thread. University is opening on the said date of 23(3weeks over)
All these arrests etc to me points at something being covered up. Once I return I will ask my doctor friends whats all this about, I think they would be the best to inform me. And once classes open we will have direct contact with the teachers. They can tell us exactly what had/is happening.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:23 PM
Could someone please post a breakdown of the relevant information. Just reading the top of the page shows that I may not know the half of it. And that certainly leaves me at a disadvantage when wanting to perhaps discuss this topic.


posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:04 PM

Originally posted by drclifford
reply to post by ecoparity

Eco, what do these sequences mean?

WHO released a number of sequences to the GISAID Intl database with no prior announcement and very little comment. They just said no "major changes" which is kind of like saying "she's a little pregnant".

Several virologists around the World started analyzing them immediately and they found a small "mutation" (easiest word but not completely accurate, it was more of a "shift") that had been seen previously in two samples from dead patients in San Paulo.

This change makes the virus go deeper into the lungs and do a lot more damage once it's in there. This is why the patients in Ukraine had such horrible lung-related symptoms.

If the lung damage doesn't kill the patient a long chain of secondary reactions does. These include heart, major organ and even neurological failures. The primary driver is the swine flu but the end result can be any number of issues related to the lungs failing to send oxygen everywhere its needed and carry away the waste products the respiratory system handles in coordination with circulation and excretive functions.

It's hard to say what the real impact will be on clinical fatality rate (the number of patients who die after infection) but it will probably make it worse. Unfortunately there are a large number of complicating factors in Ukraine and we don't know how much, if any impact they had on the ratio of deaths in the infected population.

It might mean more people who get swine flu will die and those who don't will have a much worse illness (the conclusion most experts are leaning towards at this time) or, if the clinical fatality rate doesn't change much it will just mean those who die will die in the worst ways more often.

The experts say this change is in line with the prediction models for what happened in the 3rd wave of the 1918 flu. There are a couple of small mutations left to achieve the full "impact" of that virus. A change that makes the rate of infection go up dramatically is one of them.

We have seen a sudden rise in deaths in other nations since the mutation first appeared and this has steadily accelerated during the Ukraine outbreak.

Caution is probably the wise choice right now. More protective measures, isolation if possible and keep a careful watch.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:16 PM
Interview Dr Niman gave tonight that does a better job of explaining the relevance of the "receptor domain change".

Interview MP3

[edit on 18-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:17 PM

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Seeing arrests of blogger really scare me...I will be returning to Ukraine soon, and once I am there will keep writing on the thread. University is opening on the said date of 23(3weeks over)
All these arrests etc to me points at something being covered up. Once I return I will ask my doctor friends whats all this about, I think they would be the best to inform me. And once classes open we will have direct contact with the teachers. They can tell us exactly what had/is happening.

Asen just try to keep your head down-is there any way that you feel they can truly identify you ?
We are all with you here-of course not a lot we can do constructively-but the guys here are onside and I am sure will support you in all possibilities.
It seems like only yesterday you was here-India has gone quickly.
Its good that you have kept in touch-so many wanted to know that you were ok.
You are privy to info that many are denied-lets hope that this can be seen to be a positive for you.
Take care mate-we are thinking of you and fellow people in Ukraine.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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I never knew that Chernobyl Power Plant was a tourist destination makes you wonder how they warrant the health risk as safe to tourist as they advertise on after all it even says the trees are reddish orange because of radiation.

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posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:50 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Thanks, Eco. You explained it beautifully.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:11 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

I work in an ER in the States and while reading that bit about it being isolated in the lungs and raising concern about it not being in the nasal cavity has really gotten me thinking.

Most all of the swabs that I have seen taken in the past two weeks have come back negative (we had many more positive A's a couple of months ago). We know that most of the swabs collected in the states through September were negative for H1N1. The CDC stopped even sub-typing at that time on most all swabs and most of us in the medical community continue to be confused by this.

Perhaps it's because they already knew it at that point that it wouldn't be accurate because of this 'shift'. (you said it was already previously isolated in the patients in mexico, right?)

I have read your other thread about the conspiracy and I tend to agree with you. There is definately something funky going on with all of this, but just what it is....well, we are yet to find out for sure. I think this 'shift' is another piece to the puzzle though and one that I am thinking the CDC already had, which would explain why they stopped testing.

I have a question...with these shifts, or subsequent mutations, would the vaccines currently being given even work? Would someone who already had the mild version of the infection have a better, natural immunity to the mutation or shift?

Also, do you feel that this will ultimately end in the virus true form, or the Spanish flu? Is this why the CDC and WHO are acting like we already had a major outbreak of a killer virus when it seemed obvious did not, because they have already predicted where it will go? Are the vaccines just a way the quell the fear of what is the REAL threat? Something much worse than what we think we should fear? I am not trying to be dramatic, just trying to figure this out, and understand the actions of ours and other countries governments. You are right, it woud take literally thousands to pull of the extinction theory and I don't buy it.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:11 AM
People keep asking why, if a mild case of the swine flu doesn't give people immunity according to the virologists, how can the vaccine do it?

I'll do my best to answer it and hopefully get close enough for conspiracy theorists work.

When you get a mild case of the swine flu the viral load, the "strength" and "reproductive ability" of the virus is very low. It really doesn't take much to make you sick. The most common theory on why some people die is that they got hit with a high viral load, very strong virus w/ 17 yr old cheerleader reproductive skills.

The vaccines actually give you a substantial dose of the virus but the virus is dead and so cannot reproduce and infect your system and kill you. It has just enough genetic resemblance to the live counterpart that the immune system is triggered and your T cells get busy.

Like Chinese engineers they drag that dead virus into the shop and take it apart to see how it works. Then they file away a battle plan for the best way to take it apart next time in your immune system's database.

Now when live virus comes along that matches the database your immune system kills the little bastard straight away. It already knows how to take it apart and what it looks like so it knows what it is the moment it shows up. Kind of like an experienced NYC doorman at the club when a Jersey kid shows up. He "ain't" getting in to mix and mingle..

Same thing goes for the nasal spray which has a live sample of the virus in it. It's alive but only "just". Like a 90 yr old in a coma on life support it can't reproduce and won't be putting up much of a challenge. The immune system does the same chop shop routine only this one is "barely alive" at the time. It just kind of lays there and bitches a lot while the T cells drag it off to the zombie party.

The other factor is the delivery method. Injecting the dead virus makes the immune system react that much faster. When you get a mild case of the flu the immune system has to go to battle and the virus is fully able to fight back and so on but if it doesn't hit you hard enough the immune system doesn't react as quickly and the virus goes dormant before the chop shop routine can take place or before it can finish.

If you had the swine flu more than once and had less than a severe case the only way to be sure is to have an antibodies lab test run or take the vaccine. Otherwise you have to consider yourself just as at risk as everyone else who hasn't had it.

At least there's a good chance you'll survive it again. No guarantees, of course but I'll take anything I can get at this point.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:12 AM
Another interesting article:

ORACLE8i™ not only has the ability to rapidly analyze gene clade sequencing in viruses and bacteria in mere minutes, it can build a model of a complex new viral structure just as quickly, and can calculate to the minutest detail its possible “drift” of mutations after its release. This software can not only predict the DEATH TOLL the virus would produce, but also the accurate final numbers of its genetic mutations over a given period of time. In short, this software can indeed control a complex GENOCIDE AGENDA in the form of an engineered, worldwide VIRAL PANDEMIC from beginning to end – Alpha to Omega. Evidence suggests that this agenda was indeed systematically set in motion in March of 2009.


posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:24 AM
reply to post by westcoast

That's weird, Dr Niman raised that same point. The rapid tests we had when this thing first showed up were giving tons of false negatives and I keep hearing from people who swear they had it and tested negative.

A virologist in the family says most nurses couldn't swab right to save their lives (no offense).

Dr Niman was curious why almost all the sequences were lung samples, mostly from dead patients (of course) and only one nasal was in the group. There was something else that occurred in the San Paolo sequences that had him thinking along the same lines you are.

Our nasal swab testing might just not be effective for detecting this virus. I'm sure you're aware there's been a lot of negative test cases who show back up 12 hours later drowning in blood.

If true, this is one of those things the WHO will NOT tell us.

Here's the comment Dr Niman made:

There were five necropsy samples and 4 had D225G. The only one that did not was from Kiev and was cloned 2X in MDCK cells, which may have selected AGAINST the viirus with D225G. Thus, culturing the virus may lose D225G, so it is only seen by direct sequencing from the tissue sample. In addition, it seems likely that two samples were collected from Ternopil/11 amd D225G was not in the nasal wash but was in the necropsy lung. Thus, testing nasal swabs, even when sequening is direct, may miss D225G. Thus, the level of D225G in circulation may be markedly higher than represented in the database.

Oh yeah, no one thinks this shift will impact the effectiveness of the vaccine.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:00 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

Thank you for both of your responses. Your description of how our immune system works with the vaccine was great and makes it easier to understand.

I really feel that I finally understand why the CDC stopped testing..or at least a good chance. Why conduct a test that you know is going to give a false-negative? It also makes me think that earlier this year we were either seeing a seasonal influenza A, or else the Swine flu before the 'shift', which is possilbe (and the right time) for our location. (washington State)

I'm still on the fence with where this is all going and why the vaccine program is being handled the way it is. I think you are the closest to the most realistic scenario....It would make perfect sense to exclude the elderly from the vaccine while at the same time NOT share the projected outcome because of the worldwide consequences of such a declaration. What is progressing in the Ukraine and now other countries is very disturbing because I feel it gives credence to this scenario.

I sincerely hope though (and continue to want to turn a blind eye to) that there is nothing more sinister here than an over-reaction to a seasonal illness that is actually milder than our normal flu and it was too late to backtrack. Or perhaps it was just too good an opportunity to make money and advance a health bill. I'll take any of that over a return of the Spanish flu and that potential outcome.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:04 AM
Interesting point of view by W. Engdahl:

Broxmeyer suggests that the WHO and CDC wish to divert attention from a worldwide epidemic of tuberculosis, while focusing attention on flu instead. Indeed recently the WHO changed its categories of causes of death to lump death from influenza in the same group as death from tuberculosis and other pulmonary disease. Given the present Swine Flu hysteria, any pulmonary death seems to be reported as "death from H1N1 influenza." In a passing note the report typically notes the patient also suffered from lung problems. Broxmeyer states, "Both the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) are fully aware of a far more serious and ongoing tuberculosis Pandemic in the world today. Yet they choose to downplay the link, disregarding the similar flu-like symptoms tuberculosis often begins with. WHO freely admits that there were approximately 1.8 million deaths from tuberculosis in 2007, the most recent year for which data are available as well as that presently about one-third of the world's population, or two billion people, carry the TB bacteria."

Article is long and main part is investigating local political situation and possible geopolitical intertwining. Medical part doesn't seem very well investigated - I had never heard about viral TB for example - but how knows...
This quote is is also interesting:

Prime Minister Tymoshenko, whatever the real facts of the case, is using the WHO Swine Flu panic scenario to the hilt. In a recent statement, she stated, "We cannot relax even for a moment because the World Health Organization predicts two more waves of flu, including the bird flu, are expected in Ukraine. There is no alternative to vaccination. The entire world is going this way…" A day earlier she admitted she was not vaccinated and that she prefers "like all other people" plans to rely on garlic, onion and lemon as a way of preventing the flu.

As for TB: I know very well that TB is very serious problem at Ukraine. I know there is new form of TB which is almost resistant to current antibiotics. Even "normal" TB is not curable by onion and garlic - I know it very well because my friend brought it to our house year ago. Few other friends and me got it from him. First wave is like strange cold lasting about 2 or 3 weeks. Damage to lungs after first wave is minor or none. Then there are basically 2 possibilities: your body kill bacteria and you are OK, or is bacteria dormant in your lungs and attack later. When second wave come - well you are in trouble. My friend have now two lemon sized halls at lungs. I'm pretty happy that second wave didn't hit me. It is one year so I'm 99.9% out of risk and with immunity against it.


posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:07 AM
reply to post by westcoast

I hope that's all there is to it. I've made a lot of people angry but they don't get that I'm going after the bad information, not them. All the alt media bastards had me fooled too at one time.

I was challenged to look into one claim, found it wasn't true and when I started looking into the others I just kept finding proof they also weren't true. There is something really, really strange going on with the conspiracies surrounding this subject.

I just look at Jane BurgerBilder (my name for her) and I can tell she's up to something. Don't ask me why and no I don't have trust issues with women. I did date a violent redhead once though so maybe its abused BF syndrome?

I'm all for her groups work on challenging forced vaccinations but the Baxter thing raises some serious questions about what she's up to..... IMO

I guess we'll see. If the idea is to get us all to take the "special" vaccine they suck at it. The shortages are really bad where I am.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:12 AM
More technical info on how the new shift might be impacting the swab testing:

If the swab is collected properly but still generating a negative, the involvement of D225G could be a ratio issue. If the ratio is swinging in favor of D225G which drives the virus to the lungs, then the virus may get cleared more quickly from the upper respiratory tract and register a negative becasue the virus has moved to the lungs.

This happened with H5N1 in Turkey, which involved another receptor domain change S227N. As a result the throat swabs of the patients were negative, but lung samples were positive. It is likely that mixtures were in play then also.

Thus, the frequency of negatives in upper respiratory tract increases as RBD changes drive the virus deep into lungs.

The bug is in such a hurry to get into the lungs now it might actually be clearing the nasal cavity mucho pronto.

Heh - see what I mean? The virologists always assume the nurse screwed up the swab. LOL

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:21 AM
Can you give me an avg on how long patients are reporting having been "ill" who are testing negative on the swab?

May as well start thinking about it because the CDC and WHO are going to send out a directive to try and gather that stat in the next few days. They're going to want to know how long it takes to clear the UR deck.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:31 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

I'm also curious with J. Burgermeister - especially with her site. Reports there are often compilation of sources with varying credibility. Many posters in her forum complained censorship there. Spreading fog is real killer for her case IMO. I stopped to advice people who are not on the swine train yet to go to her site. Instead I give them links to credible articles.

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