Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

reply to post by wloy7


as far as i know, from reading about cases in both ukraine and poland (i'm living in poland), antibiotics don't work against H1N1. when lungs are attacked, they actually make things worse. why - no idea. that's just what i've read.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


I never stated that you were one of those members.........but your reponse is very odd.........For a new member here on ATS you seem to be an old pro........

reply to post by Vitchilo


Yes it is quite common sense among docs here. Immune system is "fast response team". Every response team must be first established and need frequent exercises to bee efficient (sorry for dumb analogy but it work). Critical age for such exercises is between say 4 month till 24 month of age (just guess based on what I read/heard over time). So feed your baby well and let it freely crawl over garden and nature will do the rest. And of course teach your child what is dangerous (excrement) and what is safe (ground worm) + use and teach your bay basic rules of hygiene.
I think over protection is main reason for spread of allergies. There are other reasons but underdeveloped immune system is one of key factors.

EDIT2ADD: Forgot that we are at Ukraine topic so I can't use over protection card here with same certainty as with West societies. Still Ukraine society is basically western society (same advertisement = same mind patterns) and I'm pretty sure that at cities among middle class is over protection at play.

regards
z.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by zeddissad]

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

""We looked at the molecular markers for seasonal influenza viruses dating back 20 years and compared them with the molecular markers of the H1N1 influenza virus," said Bjoern Peters, Ph.D., lead author on the study published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "We found that the immune system's T cells can recognize a significant percent of the markers in swine flu." T cells are infection-fighting white blood cells in the body's immune system. "Nobody knows what level of immunity is sufficient for protection. We do know that a T cell response is not enough to prevent being infected by the virus. But, if infected, our data suggests that T cells in those who have previously been exposed to influenza may make the infection less severe," Dr. Peters said.

The findings are based on knowledge that the body's T cells recognize and will launch an attack against viruses -- in this case certain molecular pieces of the swine flu -- that they have seen before.

The research team also looked at the immune system's antibody-producing B cell response to the H1N1 virus. In this area, they saw only 17 percent recognition of the markers on the H1N1 as compared to seasonal flu. B cells, and their ability to produce antibodies that remember a virus, are the basis for vaccines to protect against subsequent infections by similar viruses. "Since the antibody recognition of the H1N1 virus was relatively low as compared to previous flu viruses, it means that the vaccine is important to prevent being infected by the H1N1 virus," said Dr. Peters.
.

This is good article I know I seen a few others that tried to explain the difference in the h1n1 flu and seasonal flu if I find them I will try to post them.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

In a study available online and appearing in a future issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a UT Southwestern Medical Center researcher and his collaborators in California show that the molecular makeup of the current H1N1 flu strain is strikingly different from previous H1N1 strains as well as the normal seasonal flu, especially in structural parts of the virus normally recognized by the immune system.

Prior research has shown that an individual's immune system is triggered to fight off pathogens such as influenza when specific components of the immune system - namely antibodies, B-cells and T cells - recognize parts of a virus known as epitopes. An individual's ability to recognize those epitopes - spurred by past infections or vaccinations - helps prevent future infections. The challenge is that these epitopes vary among flu strains.

"We hypothesize that older people are somewhat protected because the epitopes present in flu strains before 1957 may be similar to those found in the current H1N1 strain, or at least similar enough that the immune system of the previously infected person recognizes the pathogen and knows to attack," said Dr. Richard Scheuermann, professor of pathology and clinical sciences at UT Southwestern and a co-author of the paper. "Those born more recently have virtually no pre-existing immunity to this pandemic H1N1 strain because they have never been exposed to anything like it."
.

www.medworm.com...(influenza+flu)&t=Swine+Flu&f=infectiousdiseases&r=Any&o=d

Above is a website called medworm its very useful for finding medical articles on h1n1 incase anybody wishes to look up recent articles on the subject of h1n1.

Up to 350 are reported to be dead now, due to the pandemic in Ukraine

www.recombinomics.com...

The above WHO comments from the latest update on sequences from isolates from Ukraine (see map) raised additional concerns. Earlier comments indicated that there were no "large changes", which simply meant that there was no significant reassortment with other influenza viruses, such as seasonal flu, and the constellation of genes was unchanged (5 swine, 1 human, and 2 avian).

However, the comments did not rule out small changes, such as receptor binding domain changes seen in other swine H1N1 isolates such as D225E, D225N, and D225G. The latter two changes were of concern because they had recently been isolated from Sao Paulo fatal cases, and three of the four isolates with D225N or D225G were found in lung samples, which were of conern because of reports of total destruction of lungs in Ukraine..

The recent comments from WHO stating that sequences are "similar" to other sequences does not rule out receptor binding domain changes, and such changes were not denied, as was done previously with H5N1 sequences from patients in Pakistan, which again raises concerns that the sequences from Ukraine do have receptor binding domain changes.

Such changes could affect transmission or tropism and could also affect the vaccine reactivity. The involvement of the CDC in Atlanta, as well as Mill Hill in London suggests the isolates were tested against the current vaccine, which would again suggest that there were sequence differences, but that the differences did not significantly reduce titers against reference anti-sera.

OX40 IG
A 2003 report in the Journal of Experimental Medicine published by researchers at Imperial College London demonstrates[10] the possibility of preventing a cytokine storm by inhibiting or disabling T-cell response. A few days after T cells are activated, they produce a biologic molecule called OX40, a "survival signal" that keeps activated T-cells working at the site of inflammation during infection with influenza or other pathogens. OX40 binds to receptors on T-cells, preventing them from dying and subsequently increasing cytokine production. A combined protein, OX40-immunoglobulin (OX40-Ig), a human-made fusion protein, prevents OX40 from reaching the T-cell receptors, thus reducing the T-cell response. Experiments in mice have demonstrated that OX40-Ig can reduce the symptoms associated with an immune overreaction while allowing the immune system to fight off the virus successfully. By blocking the OX40 receptor on T-cells, researchers were able to prevent the development of the most serious flu symptoms in these experimental mice[10] and reported the results in New Scientist.[11] The drug, to be made by a company called Xenova Research (Xenova Research was purchased by Celtic Pharma, a private equity firm, in September 2005), was supposed to be in phase I clinical trial in 2004, but its status is currently unknown.[12]

In addition, preliminary data has shown that simvastatin induced down-regulation of OX40 and OX40L mRNA and protein in a concentration-dependent manner, and antagonized the interferon-gamma-induced increase in OX40 and OX40L mRNA and protein levels. Further, serum levels of soluble OX40L and matrix metalloproteinase 9 levels were significantly reduced in patients with atherosclerotic cerebral infarction who were treated for 6 months with routine therapy plus simvastatin (n = 46) compared with patients receiving routine therapy alone (n = 30).[13]

en.wikipedia.org...

-Al

Thanks jjay and seattle.
I am just trying to get clear in my own head what to do. It seems if I
have a weak immune system/underlying condition I'm at risk, If I have had no previous exposure I'm at risk and if I have a really healthy immune system I'm at risk! I think I'll work on my health regardless. I would probably never reach the peak of health anyway.
Anyhow this is anecdotal but I will post a link if I find one. A regular doctor on UK morning TV, today advised people with conditions like diabetes to get the jab - but that weighing up the potential risk versus potential benefit, at the moment he would advise pregnant women not to get it. That's in the UK.
Now I believe this guy is genuine but he does normally toe the government line. So it's quite a big thing for him to say that.

Here's a link to the man - though not to his latest advice
www.gm.tv...

[edit on 18-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky


maybe because i'm reading about similar stuff since more than 15 years

situation in poland turns out to be same as in ukraine. reported deaths, as far as i've found out: 4. TV, radio stations, web portals - everyone quiet. not a single word about pandemic, single posts about precautions in hospitals and single cases, 2 schools closed, that's all. of course, that's nothing unusual, that absence in schools is between 35% and 75%, right? SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT. RIGHT AFTER SPRAYINGS.

polish health minister said that 4 persons are dead from H1N1, BUT THAT ALL THOSE PERSONS HAD OTHER ILLNESSES, WHICH LOWERED OVERALL IMMUNITY. yeah, sure. and pigs fly. oink, oink.

also, according to her, since september we had in poland 107250 flu cases, in that - 293 H1N1 cases, and currently only 9 H1N1 hospitalized cases. calling that underreporting would be huge understatement. especially that other government source states that we had over 41000 confirmed and suspected cases of flu in second week of november, and they suspect that 20% to 60% of those are H1N1 cases. confirmed number of H1N1 cases: less than 300.

if 75% of kids from that school went sick in very short time because of H1N1, that means it's spreading like a wildfire. real numbers for both poland and ukraine have to be higher. MUCH higher...

[edit]
as a matter of fact, more schools are closed... but overall, the absence is in that margin: 35% - 75%. and actually, that 75% of kids didn't go to school on their own, the remaining 25% did go... and they were coughing during the lessons. that's why they've closed those schools.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

www.youtube.com...#

There are fears that H1N1 has now mutated and resembles the Spanish flu virus that killed more than 50 million people at the beginning of the 20th century. Ukrainian doctors say the victims lungs are as black as charcoal. This prompts fresh concern that the swine flu virus has taken a deadly new form

RT news report on black lungs.

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky
I am a new memeber here...are you inferring that I am some identity for a another ATS member? I have also bashed Eco in the past but I feel he has brought important information to the table in this thread. Now if you want to go after me with the mods in ATS ...go right ahead..I have nothing to hide.

i live in europe and get international news channels... russia today is reporting around 300 dead and a million and a half infected. also reporting many witnesses seeing spraying aircraft above infected area just hours before outbreak. it is the top story on russia today right now. follow this link for a short report from russia todays website.

new member, old listener.... greetings ats!!! much love, health....

I do swear, if the Web Bot was to analyze the words in this thread exclusively, it would probably come to the conclusion that the thread is about some guy called Eco...; and it would probably be right!

I apologize. I just couldn't help it anymore. Even with all the people I have on ignore, I still have to put up with more talk about him than about Ukrainian flu deaths. Ugh!

In spite of this some knowledge is gelling. Flu viruses are constantly recombining and/or mutating. People with weakened immune systems can get really sick from H1N1. People with normal immune systems will probably only get mildly ill; especially if they are old enough to have had previous exposure to a similar virus in the past. Young people are more at risk from the Cytokine (sp) storm than the flu itself.

Here's a question though; and it probably is a very basic one that some of the professionals on here could explain easily. When does H1N1 no longer become H1N1? Virii with several different changes are still referred to as H1N1 even tho they are somewhat different from each other. What does it take for it to deserve a different name.

I think part of the confusion some of us have relates to the nomenclature. Everything called H1N1 is not the same. When does it officially become "something else". 1918 Spanish flu is H1N1 too right?

Can someone (hopefully someone I haven't blocked ) come up with an easy explanation please? Thnx.

[edit on 11/18/2009 by wayno]

reply to post by birdonawire


that sounds a little bit like you're saying about russia... maybe use quotes for 'russia today'? i was surprised... for a minute. old news.

lol. I just believe that being healthy is important. Did not mean to start some battle. This is a pretty fun site though. I hope were are all wrong about this virus. To the previous post, that is the question. I am guessing they will relate every new virus that kills to h1n1.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by wloy7]

reply to post by wloy7


nah. i don't think we're wrong. i live in poland, i read what's going on here, at least what they're telling us. chemtrails are also here. it's much worse than they're reporting, and it's speeding up.

offtopic, www.anysonglyrics.com... - robbie williams - bodies lyrics. when you think about it... scary. i can bet those that have millions, know more. probably not everything... but a lot more than regular sheeple.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


These chem trails, what do they look like. I mean do they look different from the normal vapour trails that I from planes. Over the years my eyes have become open but there were things that I thought were bull. Now, nothing can be thought of a bull. Be safe out there my friend.

reply to post by wloy7


those are not from jets. small planes flying low and rather slow during day, big transport planes flying higher, that is above clouds, during night. i've heard one of those transport planes recently. it was 4:30am, i went to get some ciggies. it was such a loud low tone from the motors that one could almost feel vibrations. never heard something like that in my life, and i never saw chemtrails here before during all past years as well.

and trails are looking 'normal'. wide trails on the sky, very slowly disappearing and covering whole sky with a mist. those from smaller, lower flying planes, are disappearing faster according to what i saw. it probably depends on wind speed and altitude.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]