Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

When even one virologist or microbiologist steps up and says "there's something in this virus / vaccine that shouldn't be here" then I'll believe in the popular conspiracy.

Meanwhile the WHO and the media keep playing the same games. "Nothing to be worried about, don't prepare, don't protect yourselves".

I do believe there was a virologist video going the rounds where he said he wouldn't give the vaccine to his family - but that was on the basis of established safety - which is somewhat different.
Personally I don't know. But I just keep coming back to the notion that it would be supremely easy to commit mass murder by introducing a lethal agent into the air or water without any of this fuss. And you can always blame it on terrorists.
Heck if the aim is depopulation, my dog could have made a better job of it....

[edit on 14-11-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by ecoparity


you still believe in big pharma and baxter and all the players don't you ? do you actually think they are going to knock on you door? unbelievable you still think this vaccine is o.k. don't you? have you not read what the man that was trying to expose this s --- was trying to do when he was taken away? God what do you think this is a vitamin shot ? there is serious, very serious problems with this vaccine IT KILLS PEOPLE and is deadly ! you have to know what is in these vaccines if you are close to intelligence at all.

reply to post by BLUESHADOW747


Nope, I just believe the real conspiracy is more complicated and much easier to get away with with than the fairy tale version.

Of course, if you were reading the posts and actually paying attention you would know that.

Do you have any proof that the vaccine has killed anyone? I'd be very interested in seeing that proof if there is any.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Can we stop the name calling on either side? Everyone has a right to their views. We should all be able to disagree respectfully.
Mods- we could do with the equivalent of a boxing ring where people can slug it out without forcing it on the rest of us.
Enough already.

Edit - I'm referring to posts before the one above.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by ecoparity


there has been multiple posts on this matter in regards to this and i feel that you could be in actually involved with these people how can you account after account keep defending a deadly vaccine? i will not sift through post after post to satisfy you, as you well know what multiple reports ans other links including very educated people have responded to you with; however if you want to take the time as i have and look into this instead of trying to defend it or whomever you may be working for, then by all means go for it! i know from reading these posts daily that you have been given multiple accounts of this from other reports and from other links why do you act as though we can't see through you?

reply to post by BLUESHADOW747


Very childish response. I'm sorry to say this sort of thing got another user banned on a similar forum (same topic) recently.
It needs one of you not to bite. Believe me, it's not worth it.

reply to post by BLUESHADOW747


blah blah blah

You cant post it because there isn't any. Don't make excuses.

Until you learn to use sentences and paragraphs and periods I have nothing to say or read from you anymore. Even my 3 yr old knows how to type.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by BLUESHADOW747


You touch on the Bacteria factor...

I got the Flu over a month ago and I ended up with Bacterial meningitis before it was all said and done...

Extremely odd to say the least

You also touch on Troops in the USA, I think that is mainly to suppress a reaction, people have allot of questions, I think their biggest concern is violence, looting and reaction...

If this is setup, even though imho it's a setup designed to eliminate enemies not us and preserve resources and those making these decisions believe they are doing it in the worlds best interests... From a moral level and given other factors like us aligning with other powers to do it, many Americans might not take kindly to this or much of what is going on...

reply to post by unicorn1


very unrealistic is more like it personally when people are given wrong information and it kills people and to the degree we see ukraine and what could happen to my family and this world is not childish thank you!

reply to post by ecoparity


many posts ecoparity and you are very aware of them even the ones I have pointed out like many others you have ignored>

You guys do realize that there are tons of people who come on here to find out about updates, articles and news in regards to the Ukraine situation, right? Instead we have to read through comment after comment on page after page of the same 2 or 3 people bickering back and forth posting the same arguments over and over again just to get to the actual information we're here for. Yikes! Thanks to everybody who actually contributes and continues to post new information without sidetracking the thread for the rest of us.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I invite you to a site called american holocaust whereas this woman swears from- seems very strong sectors and inside info that the awareness level we need to be is extremely severe. check it out -also there is several links involved as well.

Blueshadow...we can point out to Eco a million times that there are other doctors and scientists out there with differing opinions, but we'll never get him to admit to anything other than his current assertion that this is H1N1, or that his "expert witness" is wrong....despite the fact that there seems to now be actual evidence for other flu strains, and despite the fact that the lab in the region has now been "closed down" for dubious reasons.

I'm pretty sure he's is a "plant" from somewhere....from some organization that has a stake invested in the world believing that this is H1N1. Especially since he refuses to say what type of work he does.

Also, When people on the inside can't convince everyone else that their story is true, their next step is to usually start trying to discredit them in whatever way they can (i.e. now he starts calling people crazy and mentally unstable.) We've seen it happen time and time again in other conspiracy theories.....standard operating procedure.

***

As a side note to everyone else....

I finally saw an article about this in Drudge today....it wasn't a lengthy article, and it didn't offer any new information, but I did see it on "mainstream news".

Link:

www.drudgereport.com...


EDIT TO ADD:

WHOA! The link about the Ukranian epidemic was there this morning, but now it's gone. That's strange.....he usually leaves links to stories up there for at least a few days if it's newsworthy enough to get on his report in the first place.

Hmmmm......interesting. It's not there anymore....it was up for less than 24 hours.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by BLUESHADOW747


There are allot of theories...

And in the end at this moment they are all theories including my own.

I just don't see the logic in the 1st world wiping too many of it's own people, sure...some, it's too obvious if when all is said and done Europe and Russia etc, don't have death tolls that read 6%, 12% or whatever...

They have to kill a bunch of us... thus the camps and body bags...

But I still don't think this is about us, logically if this spreads and gets more severe, it's the 3rd world...that has no Vaccines, no aid no ability... It's the 3rd world with the population issue not us...

heck, a 10% death toll in the states frees up allot of jobs and a 40% death toll in the 3rd world frees up allot Food and lowers the price on allot of things...

What would it look like? When done?

here's what I see... and it's my opinion

But if the flu and a host of diseases ravages the 3rd world...

1: Food prices in America and Europe inevitably drop a good 50%

2: a Nice death toll takes unemployment in the West back down to about 6-7%, maybe lower, people need to be buried, order maintained...this also creates jobs as well...

3: Then you have selective trouble spots...how well will let's say guerrilla fighters in caves do around the world against a bad Flu that melts the lungs?

4: Immigration issues..basically gone, not just because 3rd world nations take the biggest toll, but because the inner cities that are over crowded and filled with immigrants take the biggest hits on our shores...

It's interesting

Some don't feel it could be bio warfare because it's a flu and possibly now other known diseases... but really look at the world with a 10% decrease in the 1st world and a 40% decrease across the nations that aren't part of the NWO

Ukraine and it's pivotal location, it feels like a good spot to start settling some global issues were I a lunatic...

I would expect North Korea and Iran and East Africa and Indonesia and other places to get hit particularly hard as well.Maybe Mexico too

There is 2 ways for them to fix the economy and population and cultural issues between the 1st and 3rd worlds as I see it

WAR

OR

This

War against the 3rd world? ehhhhh Troops outnumbered 10-1, costly, much higher death toll for us that way and huge public outcry.... how exactly when you can't even wage war against Iraq without people protesting to you say...randomly Nuke Uganda?

You don't...

But this... Small Pox on the blankets all over again... this is viable if done right...

And lets face it all harsh words aside... Russia, China, Europe and America have run the UN for a long time, The UN security council is the NWO and well, look on the forums... Islam, Africa... most people here agree there is a cultural population war unofficially declared on us...

I think this is how they decided to handle it honestly

reply to post by nikiano


Well maybe you can provide proof that someone has died from taking the flu vaccine, since the sock puppet poster can't.

I wouldn't take a Ukrainian or Russian news article as "proof" of anything, they'll just write the opposite tomorrow or the next day.

When people go from research on a conspiracy to just making it up as they go along they step over into the realm of mental illness. When I ask people directly if they are involved in selling alternate treatments or running a blog / forum / website with ad revenue which deals in this issue and they ignore the question I consider that proof of bias.

It isn't nice seeing people dismissed without proof, is it? Kind of like labeling anyone who doesn't agree with you as an "agent" or "plant".

I kind of expect people involved in the medical field to be more demanding about scientific proof. There is not one single expert supporting this theory, not one.

If you have real, scientific proof of it or that the flu vaccine has killed people I would be happy to look at it. I'm interested in facts, not make believe. There is a dedicated thread for these discussions, by the way.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Fragile Care Worsened Swine Flu in Ukraine

Fragile Care Worsened Swine Flu in Ukraine

By ELLEN BARRY
Published: November 13, 2009

LVIV, Ukraine — When patients began arriving in Vyacheslav Bonder’s intensive care unit two weeks ago, their lungs so saturated with blood that they could barely gasp, the only thing he could compare it to was a field hospital in wartime. As soon as he hooked one patient up to a ventilator, a second and third would appear in the doorway.

By that time, hospitals were clearing wards to make room for a wave of pneumonia cases, and people were crowding into drugstores to buy whatever they could get their hands on. Rumors were circulating that the government had ordered the city aerially sprayed with chemicals, to cure Lviv (pronounced luh-VEEVE) of disease or, in a grimmer version, to exterminate its carriers.

The panic lifted almost as quickly as it had arrived, and the World Health Organization announced Friday that the swine flu illnesses and deaths so far in Ukraine — 265 fatalities nationwide, with 87 in the Lviv region — were statistically no worse than those in other countries. But what happened here has drawn rapt attention from experts bracing for the epidemic to hit Europe, and especially the fragile health care systems of countries of the former Soviet Union.

Early findings are that serious cases mounted because the sick avoided hospitalization until their illness was dangerously advanced, stockpiles of Tamiflu were locked in centralized locations and the supply of ventilators fell short, said David Mercer, of the World Health Organization’s European regional office.

“It’s not like this caught us by surprise; we’ve known for months that this was coming,” said Dr. Mercer, who heads the office’s communicable disease unit. “We’ve been working very hard on plans, but sometimes the battle plan doesn’t survive the first contact with the enemy. We’ve had to change a lot of things on the fly.”

With the worst of the health care crisis here past, many in Ukraine’s western provinces are trying to puzzle out what led to it. Doctors blame the news media and politicians for spreading fear and misinformation. The mayors of Ternopyl and Lviv, which reported their first deaths from atypical pneumonia on Oct. 12 and 19, have complained that the federal epidemiological service refused to act without laboratory confirmation that the virus was present, delaying serious measures by nearly two weeks.

Others point to more remote causes, among them the desperate poverty of Ukraine’s health care system 20 years after the Soviet Union collapsed.

In Lviv, senior doctors earn a monthly salary of 1,500 hryvnas, approximately $184, pay so low that many physicians leave their practices to work as home health aides in Western Europe. Though health care is officially free, patients typically pay a stream of cash bribes for services as large as X-rays and as small as blood tests or linen changes.

Ukrainians rely heavily on home remedies, and that is what they did for the third and fourth weeks of October, resorting to garlic and lemons and waiting so long to check into hospitals that by the time they did, many were beyond treatment.

“Medicine is underdeveloped in Ukraine, and people don’t believe in it — it’s a vicious circle,” said Oleh Berezuk, a physician who heads the mayor’s administration in Lviv. “In a mature country, if you get sick you will not say, ‘Nobody can help me.’ ”

Now, the doctors at Lviv’s main pulmonological hospital have the shaky good humor of people who have come through a crisis, though portions of their hospital are clammy and unlighted (“to scare the viruses,” one doctor joked), and some of their breathing equipment dates from Soviet times.

Two weeks ago, though, doctors here thought they were looking at a medical mystery: the deaths of healthy young people — not the drunks or addicts they usually see — with lungs so inflamed that they resembled liver. Dr. Bonder recalls the numb realization that his ordinary protocol for treating pneumonia was having no impact at all.

“You would come in to work and the next time you looked at your watch it was midnight,” said Dr. Bonder, who heads the intensive care unit. “You didn’t even think what could happen next.”

Nurses and doctors were falling ill at an alarming rate, in part because of shortages of gloves and disinfectant. Irina Mykychak, the assistant director of Lviv’s regional medical department, said around 3,500 medical professionals fell ill, of whom 300 were hospitalized and 4 died.

When they did suspect H1N1, physicians were stuck in a Catch-22. Though the government had stockpiled Tamiflu in preparation for an outbreak they expected later in the year, the drug was available only at the region’s single infectious disease station — and only with proof that a patient had H1N1. Obtaining proof was a three-to-four-day process that required that samples be sent to Kiev, said Lyubomir Rak, the hospital’s director.

Nadia Rudnitskaya, chief of pulmonology, was carefully putting the pieces together. On Oct. 27, she examined the body of a 32-year-old man — the latest in a series of four deaths from four parts of western Ukraine that, as she put it, “shouldn’t have happened.” Dr. Rudnitskaya gathered her samples together and appealed urgently to Kiev.

Right then the logjam broke: The next day the governor ordered a quarantine and released the emergency stockpile of Tamiflu to clinics and hospitals. A day after that, Prime Minister Yulia V. Tymoshenko announced on television that the virus had “reached epidemic threshold,” and all of Ukraine was talking about H1N1.

“It was a riddle,” Dr. Rudnitskaya said. “There was an answer.”

For some, it came too late. Marta and Nazar Martin insisted that their mother, Galina, 43, check into a hospital on Oct. 23, after her cough worsened into shallow, labored panting. A dentist, she had been treating herself with intravenous antibiotics and flu medications, as she had always done before.

“No one knew there was an epidemic,” said Marta, 18. “Nothing was said, not at work, not on television.”

The hospital offered no answers either. Doctors first prescribed antibiotics for bronchitis, then punctured Ms. Martin’s spinal column to test for meningitis and encephalitis, then gave her an M.R.I. to rule out a brain tumor. With every new prescription, her children scraped up the money and set off to find a pharmacy where it was available, Marta said.

“A poor person would just die,” she said. “They will not start a medication until you pay for it.”

On Oct. 29, when information about H1N1 flooded the region, doctors and nurses showed up wearing masks for the first time, Nazar said. He watched incredulously; his mother had already declined so much that she was “half a corpse,” he said. After she died, the next day, samples from her body were sent to be tested for swine flu.

Her children estimate they paid 35,000 hryvna, or about $4,300, in cash payments to nurses and doctors during the week she spent in the hospital. The more they hear about swine flu, the angrier they get.

“Why didn’t they take measures before then?” said Nazar Martin, 19. “I’m interested in knowing what they were thinking. They took this seriously only when people began to die, when the death statistics began to rise. Where were they before then?”

“It’s on their conscience,” he said, of the medical authorities. “They should have done something to prevent it.”

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]

The Moshe story is coincidental, and they spent millions to swat team an old dude in VW.

The reports of spraying are false, and many people on the internet falsely posted reports in comments on blogs and forums verifying it.

The interpol exercise was a coincidence. As are the other rash of similar exercises.

It's completely natural and expected due to poor health services and conditions.

The attempt on the life of the Minister of drugs was unrelated.

The closing of labs was due to administrative problems.

The sequences are being withheld because, well these things take time.

The lack of media coverage because well.. I can't even think of one for that.

No reports from the Ukraine can be trusted except official reports getting there information from the Ukraine.

The hysterical vaccination push is justified. The disclaimer to the possible side effects or even death and probability that it may not even work by the manufacturers is fair and reasonable.

It's ok that those responsible for those particular laws were financially involved with the pharmaceutical companies and made spectacular profits. That's free enterprise. Not criminal activity.

Only Official reports about the numbers infected or dead can be trusted as well as side effects and possible deaths related to the vaccine. We can only trust the corporations and corporate media with this information.

The Novel strain H1N1 cannot possibly have originated anyway but naturally.

Baxters involvement is coincidental. The intentional distribution of aids was regrettable. The Bird flu thing wasn't really a vaccine at all, there was never any danger.

There's no scientific suppression in the vaccination industry at all.

The definitions for pandemic where changed coincidentally. The jump to level 6 was justified. The WHO should be allowed to impose during a crisis defined by there own definition.

Flu cannot be used as a weapon even though one managed to take out more people than world war 1, and 2 by some estimates. Even though the 1918 strain was reverse engineered at the infamous fort Dix military base where all the other lethal nasties are kept. And probably decades ahead of the commercial game. Remember the anthrax threat? don't worry you'll forget.

The long long history of tests on unsuspecting civilians and military personnel? regrettable, we don't do that anymore.

And dozens more I can't recall at this point.

Never mind it's just a coincidence.

Yes it's all OK, Sleeeeep.

Ok, a small few could be valid.
For most I was just being a smart ass if you couldn't tell.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by squiz]

All i know about the ukraine thing, is if i was russia, i would be pushing anti american feeling in the country, at this mo. People are scared, and looking for answers.

Who knows why the media are not telling us the truths about what is happening, probably because its against what is happening in the west, and they do not want to many questioning the reality of swine flu.

reply to post by squiz


Yeah, so many coincidences... just like 9/11...

And you forgot one...and one big. A LOT of people predicted this one a few months beforehand because of all the ``coincidences`` happening...

And then, BOOM! ``Pandemic`` + GRAB OF POWER + UN saving us all + pushing of the vaccine + this whole used as a cover up for everything else going on, especially the bankers pulling the biggest scam in history.

Yeah...all a coincidence...