Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

reply to post by squiz


Yes, same source and was unable to confirm data through other sources. WHO has been quiet also, so that's about all we have to go on.

I also wonder how many have only been infected by the process of political math.

CDC now says 4,000 swine flu deaths in US ATS


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

reply to post by apacheman
I hope someone can clear this up for me. If influenza is 'impossible to weaponize' because it mutates too fast, how could the 1918 pandemic have even happened? It would have struck the area where it mutated into a deadly strain to begin with, then 'quickly' mutated into a less harmful strain. I guess it forgot to mutate, then it spread world-wide? I am not a virologist nor do I make any claims in the medical field, but I think my logic is working.

It also states..

"According to the preliminary conclusion, we can assume that today this type of virus (A/H1N1 - editor.) prevails in the country, and most of all the diseases are caused by this same type of virus. But now other types of viruses are circulating - a seasonal influenza and respiratory viruses" , - she added.

That sounds solid to me.

I also wonder how many have only been infected by the process of political math.

No doubt.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by squiz]

reply to post by butcherguy


More on what your looking for is here:
Influenza as a bioweapon The Royal Society of Medicine

Influenza is usually transmitted by direct contact but can also be transmitted by aerosol (e.g. on a passenger plane).11 Indeed, international transmission is increasingly frequent. Notably, aerosol transmission of influenza requires up to 27 000 times fewer virions to induce equivalent disease.12 Taken together with the fact that influenza virus is readily accessible and may be causing more deaths than previously suspected, the possibility for genetic engineering and aerosol transmission suggests an enormous potential for bioterrorism.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

reply to post by Regenmacher
Thanks for the link. I have always wondered about remote tribes and communities coming down with the 1918 pandemic virus and how that happened. If nature is able to do it, I should think the DOD would have their ways worked out also.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by butcherguy]

Influenza is not used as a bioweapon because it cannot be controlled or limited to just the target.

Studies on use of it as a bioweapon are looking at it as possibly being used by terrorists who might not care about the virus killing their own people.

It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

The media reports claiming that there are several viruses circulating are wrong. One of the viruses they list has not been seen since 1958 and all lab samples were ordered destroyed.

Besides the WHO teams there are medical research teams from several countries performing testing in the region. So far not one of them has confirmed that anything other than H1N1 is in circulation.

It sucks but I just can't trust any of the media sources from that area. All they've done is report contradictions and outright false information which has done nothing but feed the rumors and paranoia.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Originally posted by ecoparity
Influenza is not used as a bioweapon because it cannot be controlled or limited to just the target.

You forgot to say "by governments officially".
Islamic terrorists possess bioweapons of all sorts and will use them against their own because it is part of fard ayn. If their own die they are martyred, so no great loss as they will have 72 virgins in heaven.

H1N1 was accidently (on purpose) taken from Mexico's arsonal. In typical fashion the government threw their hands up and said they don't know how that could happen. At the time the drug lord (Forbes top 10 list) was vying for territory and power. Pressure from the US government backed Mexico into the corner and they made a decision. H1N1 was a mild reminder of what can happen in political posturing.

All the intelligence sites are writing off the Ukraine as political posturing too. So interpretation of that is instrumental. The US, WHO, and CDC cannot be the world police. At some point we are defensive and do what's best for our country. The medical field and media has been working overtime in the US to vaccinate and accomodate victims of this pandemic. And doing a hell of a job btw.

While the situation in the Ukraine is unfortunate... this is part of the new millenium. We are an overcrowded planet. Nature's Way means that only the strong will survive. Sad reality that yes, there are evil overlords out there who will kill the pigeons who litter their kingdoms. Happening right now as we speak all over Africa.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by JJay55]

Things here can seem to get pointless with this thread. For me, it is because if we want to know the truth, we need to know the current status of the virus's genetic makeup. We can wait for the WHO to put out info that they MUST be sitting on, but we can't really believe them when they do finally put something out. If we could get some first person reports from ground zero from someone with a good medical background, that would be the cats @ss.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Things here can seem to get pointless with this thread. For me, it is because if we want to know the truth, we need to know the current status of the virus's genetic makeup. We can wait for the WHO to put out info that they MUST be sitting on, but we can't really believe them when they do finally put something out. If we could get some first person reports from ground zero from someone with a good medical background, that would be the cats @ss.

Heh, the truth? You want the truth???
But you have a better chance of finding out the truth in a democracy just because hegemonic powers are minimized... well compared to other government systems.
3 ways to find the truth... empirical knowledge, rationalization, and pragmatic thinking. All necessary in hermeneutics interpretation of the events. So eye witness and experience mixed with self-serving reason and narrow down the theories and you have the truth. Each person will have a different result, which is normal.
My truth is getting into survival mode.

Originally posted by ecoparity
It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

One of the viruses they list has not been seen since 1958 and all lab samples were ordered destroyed.

The world is full of the incredibly stupid or evil people, and they're not confined to any particular social class, where inoculating your forces and infecting the enemy would be the general plan. Making them sick would be conducive to increasing profit margins in the healthcare sector, while driving large swaths of the populace into greater levels of debt slavery.

Review of Aerosol Transmission of Influenza A Virus CDC

Preparedness for the deliberate use of biological agents: A rational approach to the unthinkable. WHO

H2N2 is still around, but getting a test kit is another story:
Pandemic-causing 'Asian flu' accidentally released New Scientist

Follow the money:
Catch it! Bin it! Profit from it!
Companies profit from H1N1 pandemic

As for fear and paranoia, you seem project a lot of emotionalized and sweeping generalizations when your protective "big brother is god" bubble is poked.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by butcherguy
Things here can seem to get pointless with this thread.

Most are inclined to only parrot corporate fueled government propaganda.

Presenting all sides is a good course of action and be wary of those who have one sided agendas.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

I don't buy the argument that the elite wouldn't use a flu bio-weapon because it's unpredictable. Military research is at least a decade ahead of civilian tech. Elite own governments so have tech at least as far ahead. The elite probably have a cure for most every disease. When the public generally knows about things like colloidal silver, surely the elite have something better. Not only this, the true elite are rich enough to quarantine their selves and staff, have at least one personal doctor, and stock the best medical supplies. I think they'd be just fine.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by ecoparity
It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

One of the viruses they list has not been seen since 1958 and all lab samples were ordered destroyed.

As for fear and paranoia, you seem project a lot of emotionalized and sweeping generalizations when your protective "big brother is god" bubble is poked.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Just once can you provide an example of this? I've ignored a lot of pathetic crap in this thread but it's getting old. Show us all where I've done this, please.

hniman #H1N1 Ukraine 1,308,911 cases, 69K hospitalized, 265 dead #Swineflu http://(link tracking not allowed)/3XiSu2 less than 20 seconds ago from web

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by ecoparity
It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

One of the viruses they list has not been seen since 1958 and all lab samples were ordered destroyed.

As for fear and paranoia, you seem project a lot of emotionalized and sweeping generalizations when your protective "big brother is god" bubble is poked.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Just once can you provide an example of this? I've ignored a lot of pathetic crap in this thread but it's getting old. Show us all where I've done this, please.

Proof? You want proof? You can't afford it, that's the point.
Everyone knows that Anne Frank was dependent on information from the WHO and she didn't make it out. So she had to burrow under a house and hide. So the example that was on this thread of a Ukranian leaving the warzone wasn't enough for you?
I understand. It's hard to pull the trigger. Well, not hard for me... but I can understand that it's hard for others. Then there's Mike who has an interest because he has family in the warzone. Sure you build a house and think it's safe and make babies and have a little garden and then it's all destroyed... and you have to leave. The sentiment will kill you if you let it.

Being in hurricanes Hugo and Andrew taught me alot about survival and human nature. Katrina is also a prime example of how people refuse to leave because they are scared, exhausted by poverty, and vulnerable to death by pesticide. Like shooting fish in a barrel for Mother Nature. Add in sly governments faced with UN resolutions to depopulate and it gets complicated.

So waiting for concrete evidence to turn up in your mailbox isn't going to happen and seems like an excuse to not take action. Deniable plausability.

Originally posted by ecoparity
Show us all where I've done this, please.

Influenza is not used as a bioweapon because it cannot be controlled or limited to just the target.

It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

You generalize all the time as this being a byproduct of a one-sided agenda aka a head box.

Yes, influenza can be limited to target a specific group.
No, not everyone is deemed as incredibly stupid to consider it a bio-weapon.




[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

reply to post by Regenmacher
Pointless was the wrong word to use, I am just apprehensive and discouraged.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Yes, influenza can be limited to target specific group.
No, not everyone is deemed as incredibly stupid to consider it a bio-weapon.

SARS, MARS is the perfect example.
The only thing I could see different in the races was blood type. Asians tend to have more A and B blood types than the Americas.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by ecoparity
Show us all where I've done this, please.

Influenza is not used as a bioweapon because it cannot be controlled or limited to just the target.

It's not "impossible" to use as a weapon, just incredibly "stupid".

You generalize all the time as this being a byproduct of a one-sided agenda aka a head box.

Yes, influenza can be limited to target a specific group.
No, not everyone is deemed as incredibly stupid to consider it a bio-weapon.




[edit on 13-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

If I do it all the time it should be easy to provide one concrete example. The only sweeping generalizations I see are being made by you in the form of accusations.

Please, show me where I've made such a thing and where I display this "big brother is god" thing.

reply to post by butcherguy


Anyone else remember this from 2006?
Interesting where this was done and what they found, no?

Deadly new flu viruses

New Deadly Flu Viruses Reemerge from Melting Ice
By Stefan Anitei, Science Editor 4th of December 2006

An international team found flu viruses in the ice of Siberian lakes, fact that warns about the possibility that global warming may release germs locked in glaciers for decades or even centuries.

Long-dormant strains of viruses, bacteria, and fungi, wrapped in ice in remote zones, may be released by melting ice and migratory birds. "Our hypothesis is that influenza can survive in ice over the winter and re-infect birds as they come back in spring," says Dr. Scott Rogers of Bowling Green State University, Ohio, US.

This is the first time viral RNA from a human infecting strain was found in ice. The team collected water and froze it in the summer, and in the winter, they cut ice samples with a sterilized saw. The haemagglutinin of the ice-discovered H1 virus is closest to a strain active from 1933-38 and again in the '60s. "These certain strains come back from time to time," said Rogers. "People have studied the biotic (transmission) cycle over the years, but it's been clear that some of the virus should be mutating faster. But some of the strains come back, and they haven't mutated."