Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

reply to post by JJay55

Sorry to be a tease But really, it's better to have the vid on here and then it can be discussed by any who wish.

The doctor was speaking in terms of what is known about the way flu viruses spread. This is why he said that closing borders is pointless -- especially after such a time lapse. Actually even the WHO have said so.

Beats me why Slovakian officials don't seem to take much notice of what experts and even history tell us.

About the vid: tomorrow I'll be writing up the timings, which are needed for parts that require subtitles. I've already made arrangements with a member here who has kindly offered to do the technical stuff for the vid as frankly I'm not good at that sort of thing. Soon as it's ready we'll see about getting it released on ATS.


Other matters: as for how it is on the ground here, there's little or no concern about the Ukraine situation. It's basically dropped of the news radar for now. Meanwhile it seems that the Ukraine Ministry of Health (MoH) says they've only had 67 cases of H1N1 (swine flu) registered. The epidemic, however, is being characterized as seasonal flu.

This would go along with what our top epidemiologists are expecting here. Seasonal flu, not swine flu.

So, unless I've misunderstood it seems there's a bit of change from what the Ukrainians have been saying in the recent past, when the main talk was about swine flu. However, the swine flu cases are apparently still of concern to them and there was a meeting between Ukraine doctors and WHO officials today to discuss this. This is reported in the "news" section today on the Ukraine MoH website.

Sorry for not posting translated reports from here or Ukraine. If needed I can do it later. I have very little free time today.

Just a finishing note: this is only personal observation but I thought I'd share it. Yesterday I checked with the admin staff where I worked, to see if we had anyone off with flu. Nope. Not one. Nothing untoward with our clients either. I asked several. So for now, whatever seasonal flu is around seems to be holding at pretty low levels. As for swine flu, we've had about 400 confirmed cases since spring. Many of those appear to be among people who've traveled to places like Germany, where apparently there is a much higher percentage of vaccinated citizens than we have here. For example, we had forty kids from a high school in the south who came down sick with swine flu. They'd been on a trip to Germany and fell ill just after returning.

I'm glad to say that all these young people are recovering or have recovered.

We have had only a single fatality from swine flu, and that was a woman who was quite obese and had had serious heart problems for a long time. In fact she died of heart failure, not a pneumonic condition.

Swine flu vaccinations are not even due to start here until Nov 20 and will cover about 5% of the population, with 1/2 million doses (another 5%) held in reserve. The govt does not see any need for mass vaccinations for swine flu and in fact that idea has been ruled out.

Regards,

Mike

[edit on 11/11/09 by JustMike]

reply to post by martin3030


You won't get a reply.

Trust me, been in your situation plenty of times

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by martin3030

 

You won't get a reply.

Trust me, been in your situation plenty of times

I am confident of a reply.
I think its fair to say that MPs representing people in the North are more inclined to chase things up.Maybe thats because Northerners have greater expectations-no disrespect to the South.
I am on the Admin team of one of the UKs biggest consumer websites,and so know that there are some MPs who will respond-I see them do so every day.

reply to post by JustMike


I hope you realise I count on you to be the 'voice of reason!'.
Frankly I'm all at sea with the various swine flu and vaccine theories.
It seems to me the media or tptb can't win - either they are hyping up the situation or they are underplaying it!
At the moment it's just good to know that there are objective sources out there...

Yes the conflicting reports appear to be so confusing.
This has been released today;


Seventy A(H1N1) cases confirmed in Ukraine, 17 die
Today at 14:51 | Interfax-Ukraine
Seventy cases of the A(H1N1) flu subtype have been laboratory-confirmed in Ukraine, and 17 of these cases ended up lethally, Ukrainian First Deputy Health Minister Vasyl Lazoryshynets said at a news briefing on Nov. 11.

"But this does not mean that the other deaths were not caused by this flu virus, because everything depends on the way laboratory samples are taken and transported," he said.


We know of the London tests-Poland are supposed to be testing 30+ samples.
Seems the health minister still leaves answers to the questions open ended.

Now we have confusion on the actual taking and transport of samples ?????

In Ukraine the number of deaths from influenza and SARS rose to 213 people last night, 24 people died, reports Ministry of Health Ukraine. According to authorities, all in a country noted 1 million 192 thousand 481 case, 62.462 thousand people are hospitalized. The epidemic threshold is exceeded in the Crimea, Vinnytsia, Volyn, Donetsk, Zhytomyr, Transcarpathian, Ivano-Frankivsk, Kyiv, Kirovograd, Lugansk, Lvov, Nikolaev, Poltava, Rivne, Ternopil, Khmelnytsky, Cherkasy, Chernihiv, Chernivtsi regions, as well as in Kiev .

Link (Not in English, sorry)

Last night it was 186 dead now 213 ?
Since Sunday the daily death toll has risen yet Tymoshenko talks of a slowdown.

For my 1st post i am not going to be optimIstic about this..
I have got a daughters colleague with a virus here in uk.

They do not know what is it but she is serriously ill "she can not breathe properly". They ve checked the air in her blood and it was very low so she is on steroids now...

It s getting really close, i start to get worried.....

reply to post by unicorn1

Well, I might not be the best choice for a voice of reason but the doc is pretty good.

Hopefully we'll have the vid all ready to air in a few days and then you can see what he has to say.

There will always be conflicting reports. I'd be really worried if they all agree. We'd have nothing to talk about then... (Joking...)

Mike

reply to post by infinite

I can confirm that the Ukrainian Ministry of Health's main "news" page gives the same figures.

Source here. (Can be translated with the google widget.)

20 regions (shown in red) are at epidemic levels. The other regions (in yellow) are approaching the epidemic threshold. This would suggest the whole country will be at epidemic levels within a few days.

As we've noted before, it's still way too early to take a lot from the mortality numbers. While they are tragic, but they would not likely be a true reflection of the final numbers.

Still beats me what Tymoshenko is exactly trying to say, though. Seems confusing to me. A couple of days ago she seemed to be suggesting that things were slowing down and they were out of the woods. I don't see that. The slow-down could be just delays in reporting from over-worked staff.

Important though that most cases are not confirmed as swine flu. Just seasonal flu.

Frankly I feel less concerned about this now than I did a couple of days ago. I'm still concerned, but it's not keeping me awake at night.

My wife attended a meeting today where Dr Martina Havlickova addressed the audience. She is the top flu virus expert in this country and heads the Central Influenza Reference Laboratory. If she saw the Ukraine situation as a serious threat then she would have said so. But instead, she said that at present, flu here is nothing out of the usual for this time of year. It compares with the average for the previous decade or so. The clinical picture is nothing out of the ordinary.

Also, she has accepted my wife's invitation to visit us at home and discuss any questions about this, particularly relating to Ukraine and its effects on other countries. We're hoping to set up a visit for next week.

Mike

This has likely been posted awhile back - but in case it hasn't or to update -
this is a great live-feed link
live.feedjit.com...

Originally posted by JustMike
reply to post by infinite

 

Also, she has accepted my wife's invitation to visit us at home and discuss any questions about this, particularly relating to Ukraine and its effects on other countries. We're hoping to set up a visit for next week.

Mike

Hello Mike and everyone.
My warm greetings from Lviv.
THe panic has calm down here, only few on the streets with masks.
I talked with my doctor yesterday, he said next week there will be
kind of big meeting in Lviv medical University regarding this nontipical pneumonia which kills people rapidly.
I will inform if anything interesting, they still dont know what it is.
THe death rate so far is 5year lowest from Flu like symtoms.
Just also saw figures that company LaRouch where our government bought Tamiflu, has made profit of 1bln usd this year.
Mr. Ramsfield got 2o% of this pie, since his company owns patent for tamiflu.

regards

Very interesting.
More on this from Wilkopedia;


Business

From 1977 to 1985 Rumsfeld served as Chief Executive Officer, President, and then Chairman of G. D. Searle & Company, a worldwide pharmaceutical company based in Skokie, Illinois. During his tenure at Searle, Rumsfeld led the company's financial turnaround, thereby earning awards as the Outstanding Chief Executive Officer in the Pharmaceutical Industry from the Wall Street Transcript (1980) and Financial World (1981). In 1985, Searle was sold to Monsanto Company. Rumsfeld is believed to have earned around $12 million from this sale.[26]

Rumsfeld served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Instrument Corporation from 1990 to 1993. A leader in broadband transmission, distribution, and access control technologies for cable, satellite and terrestrial broadcasting applications, the company pioneered the development of the first all-digital high-definition television (HDTV) technology. After taking the company public and returning it to profitability, Rumsfeld returned to private business in late 1993.

From January 1997 until being sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense in January 2001, Rumsfeld served as Chairman of Gilead Sciences, Inc. Gilead Sciences is the developer of Tamiflu (Oseltamivir), which is used in the treatment of bird flu.[27] As a result, Rumsfeld's holdings in the company grew significantly when avian flu became a subject of popular anxiety during his later term as Secretary of Defense. Following standard practice, Rumsfeld recused himself from any decisions involving Gilead, and he directed the Pentagon's General Counsel issue instructions outlining what he could and could not be involved in if there were an avian flu pandemic and the Pentagon had to respond.

reply to post by frenchinuk


Very sorry to hear this.
Please check ou this thread everyone. You can make up your own minds, but it couldn't hurt to try.

Frenchinuk, sneak some sliced onions in clean cotton socks into to her and put them on her. I think it's worth a try.

Whoops, forgot the thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Recombinomics update..
www.recombinomics.com...

Ukraine Dead Increase to 213 - Still No Sequences Recombinomics Commentary 21:36 November 11, 2009 1,192,481 Influenza/ARI 62,462 Hospitalized 213 Dead The above figures are from the latest update from the Ukraine Ministry of Health. The biggest increase in cases was again in Kiev, with 6958 new cases report in the past 24 hours. The 83,243 reported cases is the second highest, which again signals the spread of the virus to the east. Lviv oblast still has the most cases, 171,781, and deaths, 81. Only 7 of the 27 reporting locations have not crossed the epidemic threshold, and now most locations have reported deaths (see map). The jump in reported deaths to 213 represents an increase of 24 in 24 hours and raises concerns that the death toll will continue to rise due to the large number of patients who are still hospitalized (25,968 of the hospitalized patients above have been discharged). The deaths include the 90 who were detailed previously, but media reports claim that only 17of the 213 are due to swine flu, which is due to the limited testing / collection of samples. These under-representations of swine flu cases and deaths are widespread and create continual confusion. The only flu circulating in Europe is swine flu, which accounts for the vast majority of the more than 1 million cases listed above.

This analysis leads me to dissagree with Mike's analysis above. Just because the low number of confirmed cases of H1N1, does not mean that this is not a form of H1N1.. IMO Ukraine has switched its stance, saying that this is just "seasonal flu" in an attempt to quell panic.

Just like the USA has been denying this "non-event" almost completely, and Tymoshenko has switched her stance to saying it's getting better, so the elections won't get delayed.

Sorry, but these numbers don't lie. Well, there is evidence that the deaths are being under-reported, but... This is NOT "seasonal flu", I don't care what a doctor that used to work for a country that USED to border Ukraine says. But I still have all respect for you, Mike, and am eager to see the video.

Tymoshenko is following the WHO line of BS but to be fair the worst of the outbreak is probably coming to an end. Other bad outbreaks (waves) lasted around 1-2 weeks before the virus burned itself out.

It's all about how quickly people take things seriously, wear masks, wash hands and isolate away from each other. The virus will run out of hosts to jump to and even with fewer hosts the viral load decreases so the severity of the infections decreases with it.

The severe part of the outbreak is moving into the neighboring countries now but the politicians in those places are doing a better job of keeping panic under control (for the most part). Russia has a few drugs of it's own other than Tamiflu which have proven effective as well as methods for ventilation which involve sending O2 directly into the bloodstream.

I recall an article a while back about Russia developing alternatives to antibiotics but I can't remember the name for them. The science is being looked at again with all the resistant bugs floating around. It's ironic but the people of Russia may come out of their pandemic wave in better shape than expected.

reply to post by ecoparity


Read this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

apparently. the CDC was wrong about the US mortality rate of swine flu. There have actually been around 4 times the number of deaths. Makes you wonder about these figures coming out of the Ukraine.

Russia developing alternatives to antibiotics

Phages... They're using viruses to fight bacteria.

Originally posted by Americanist

Russia developing alternatives to antibiotics

Phages... They're using viruses to fight bacteria.

Yep, that was it. This swine flu has had a horrible amount of secondary pneumonia infections, from what I understand this is killing more people than the virus itself. I suppose technically even the deaths attributed directly to H1N1 could be considered pneumonia since the cytokine storm destroys the lungs causing the patients to drown in fluids.

The saddest part of the back story on the pandemic is that in the first outbreaks in La Gloria, Mexico and other villages the clinic Dr's gave people antibiotics immediately. This prevented a lot of deaths by keeping the secondary pneumonia infections under control.

As the politicians and WHO moved in their efforts to downplay the virus meant this information was not publicized well. That a lot of later deaths could have been prevented had the treating physicians known to do this places some amount of responsibility directly on the WHO and news media, IMO.