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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:03 PM
reply to post by BLUESHADOW747

If you'd like to discuss the economic and social consequences of this I've started a thread here:

However, I'd prefer to keep the discussion there focussed on verifiable facts and figures, not conspiracy theories, vaccine contamination or how individuals can protect themselves, there are plenty of threads for that kind of discussion already. I'm looking at the macro-economics and broad social effects of having such a high percentage of a given population ill at the same time, with an eye to how it may effect the global economy.

But I'll admit it's hard to get people to lift their eyes and consciousness above the immediate numbers and look at the consequences those numbers imply.

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:07 PM
reply to post by Paroxysm

9 November is the date on that, so I can't see it as days old, since that is today.

I appreciate all efforts to keep us informed with up-to-date info: all is grist for the mill, no need for competitiveness here.

edit to add: I got that from the link you provided earlier, thanks.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by apacheman]

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:09 PM

Originally posted by BLUESHADOW747
reply to post by martin3030

that's interesting and you have a point in some fairness but, what is unusual is someone will post a great article or vast info and ask a question or simply get on here to ask a question and seen time after time they go unanswered but, if it relates to latest stats or figures it gets jumped on! I cannot help my attitude at this time given the dire circumstances especially children, women and people that in this un-GODLY situation I am trying to a have a decent outlook but, just look at the common fast running pace of crunching numbers as opposed to many takes on this also this has been voiced by other posters as well, again it gets ignored but thanks for listening.

Blueshadow I cant say why posts go unanswered,in some respects I think it may be that some users dont have a real understanding of what questions are being posed-I have to say that I personally find it best to refrain from trying to answer something I dont feel able to because of lack of understanding or knowledge of.
Each of us have our own areas of knowledge and what we choose to extend upon-we cant always respond to everything thats posted.
I was married to A russian woman for 4 years and have spent quite a bit of time in Russia.
The marriage failed and for 2 years I have been with a Ukranian-I have extensively studied things in both Ukraine and Russia for 6 years-but still have lots to learn.
Some of the things that have been discussed in this thread would be beyond comprehension for most Russians or Ukranians-simply because it is the West who have traditionally been seen as the perpetrators of all things that threaten Russia and Ukraine...or certainly thats how Moscow has tried to portray.
ATS is a unique forum in that there are no bounds or limits- the people here are a wealth of info-but at the end of the day we are all individuals who can only draw on our own comprehension of those things we have been taught.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by martin3030]

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:11 PM
reply to post by apacheman

that is one of my points but, let me get this straight is this not the forum for the theories and virus deadly numbers of victims as posted on the ats headliner? That is what I was aware of that it involves all this in a major issue on this particular thread however, whatever keeps the boat rockin' right on'

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:11 PM
reply to post by BLUESHADOW747

I think sometimes we don't answer questions because they've been asked already -- and answered -- and members can scan through the thread if they really want to know. Other times it's because we don't know, or it's just a lack of time to post a reasonable answer. We have discussed a huge range of options and questions, though. It's not like the whole thread is just a stats report.

While I've presented some stats, they are not a large percentage of my posts. I've made the point several times that I and we all need to recognize there are people behind the stats. In my own case, this is all happening basically down the road from where I live so you can bet I'm concerned about it.

So, the stats are just another source of information. With no stats, then anyone could say just about anything and create all sorts of needless panic. So it's helpful to know some numbers. They're also something we can respond to because they're pretty understandable. Some of the technical medical/virological stuff can be hard to take in and that will limit the number of people who feel able to answer. I'm in the lucky situation that my wife spent 25 years in virology so she often can explain things to me.

But believe me, we're not forgetting the human side. This is real for me and others of us who live around this part of the world. It's real, it's close and it looks like it's getting closer. The Patients' Association in my country says we can expect a full-blown epidemic here within a week to two weeks. Our top epidemiologist s of much the same opinion.

We still don't really know exactly what we may be dealing with. We just know it's spreading. The more we can find out, the better it is for others who live further away. It gives you a better chance to prepare, and will save you from the worthless msm bs that is sure to keep being spewed out.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by apacheman

The date on the data which you linked says "07/11/2009" in the green bar above the Data Table. If you scroll down you will find that the totals at the bottom of the data table show totals as of 11-7-2009.

The data in the table is outdated. I have now provided you with current data twice. Once in this thread, and once in the new thread which you created.

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:23 PM
link error: I updated within the page and forgot to change the address to match.

No need to get touchy.

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:25 PM
reply to post by apacheman

Easy to get confused by these government websites.
You're right that the page is dated Nov 9, just as every page is on that part of the site, but the chart on that page is dated Nov 7.

A few posts back I linked to a report from Oct 5, 2007, and even that page has the date Nov 9 at the top.

Best regards,


posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:27 PM
reply to post by martin3030

I understand and do not know of your circumstances but as a whole the more questions asked, I feel we may get a better grip on this hell going on. I DO NOT KNOW IF U.S. HAS THEIR HEAD IN THE SAND, COMPLACENT OR IN DENIAL but, this affects everyone and I certainly am trying here to do what I can but, getting on here reaching for very valuable time and trying to ask get answers , and then reach possible solutions, sometimes with all the b.s. which I get caught in it too then, I ask wtf?

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:32 PM
reply to post by JustMike

justmike hey thanks for the input I am venting and trying to get some answers you certainly seem to understand in a lot of ways I just cannot believe sometimes the numb and complacent feel and the outlook sometimes you get re; this matter I hate what is happening in our world and thinking the internet here would reach out more and possibly be the tool it was designed for but, anyway thanks and I will pray for you and your family

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:50 PM

Originally posted by paxnatus
Since the name of this thread is "Unknown Virus", I am going to share some information I found. I have pulled the more pertinent information from this article, in order to break down some of the technical jargon.
Please take a look at this.

The name of the illness is called Leptospirosis

Here is what pubmed has to say about it.

Leptospirosis: The “mysterious” mimic

Leptospirosis is a potentially fatal bacterial disease that can display a wide array of clinical presentations thus mimicking better-known illnesses. Although, leptospirosis is primarily a zoonotic disease, it frequently inflicts severe illness and death on communities around the globe. A comprehensive overview of the disease in wake of the 2006 outbreaks in India is hereby presented and discussed.

The pulmonary form of leptospirosis is characterized as a hemorrhagic pneumonia that can resemble pneumonic plague and hantavirus pulmonary syndrome.[7]


Leptospirosis is caused by leptospires, which are spiral-shaped bacteria from the family Leptospiraceae and genus Leptospira. These bacteria are long, thin, and motile spirochetes that can be either free living in the environment or found as parasites in animal hosts.

[8] Leptospires require moist environments for survival. They can survive in contaminated freshwater sources (lakes and ponds) and muddy environments for many months. However, they can only survive for a few hours in saltwater.[9]


Although, leptospirosis is typically a zoonotic disease, leptospires can also infect humans. These bacteria can infect and colonize a wide variety of wild and domestic animals. However, the rat is typically the reservoir of leptospires


Since the original identification of leptospirosis by Dr. Weil,[22] outbreaks of leptospirosis have occurred sporadically throughout world.

Elsewhere in the world in 2005, there were at least 27 cases and eight deaths due to leptospirosis in the Ukraine.

Concurrent with these human cases, a significant percentage of the local mice populations, up to 25%, were testing positive for leptospirosis.

An added sidenote: In the past there have been several outbreaks of Leptospirosis in India, and this very well could be the pathogen responsible for the unknown virus and mysterious deaths there.


Infected rodents are typically the source of human infections. These human infections are most commonly due to contact with water or environmental surfaces contaminated with infected urine.[13,49] Other rodent body fluids (excluding saliva) can also transmit leptospires to humans, animals, and the environment.


Leptospirosis has symptoms that may mimic better-known diseases including influenza, dengue fever, meningitis, hepatitis, and other viral hemorrhagic diseases.[1,18] With the greater publicity of these other diseases, leptospires are frequently overlooked as a source of disease.

Leptospirosis should be considered in the differential diagnosis of individuals who have an abrupt onset of fever, muscle aches, jaundice, headache, conjunctival suffusion, and chills. Conjunctival suffusion and muscle aches in the calf and lumbar areas are also highly characteristic of leptospirosis; however, these signs and symptoms are not confirmatory for leptospirosis.

During the course of infection, leptospires invade all the internal organs and tissues, and damage the endothelial linings of the small blood vessels.

Glycoprotein toxin produced by the leptospires causes capillary leakage which can result in severe hemorrhaging.[50]

This damage is the source of the majority of the signs and symptoms of leptospirosis.

As the damage progresses, lesions develop throughout the organs. This damage results in

(1) injury in the proximal convoluted tubules (leading to interstitial nephritis) in the kidneys,
(2) hepatic capillary damage with hepatic cell damage leading to jaundice, blood-clotting problems, and possible liver failure, and
(3) inflamed meninges resulting in the symptoms of aseptic meningitis in the immune phase.


Milder cases of leptospirosis can be treated with amoxicillin, ampicillin, doxycycline, penicillin, streptomycin, tetracycline, or erythromycin. Ceftriaxone and cefotaxime, and quinolone antibiotics may also be used for treatment of mild leptospirosis cases.

Treatment with antibiotics should begin as soon as leptospirosis is suspected and if possible before the fifth day after the start of symptoms. However, serological tests will not be positive until about 1 week after the onset of symptoms and cultures may not be positive for several weeks.

For individuals with severe infections and Weil's syndrome, hospitalization in an intensive care unit is typically required. Intravenous penicillin should used for severe leptospirosis.[1] Dialysis will likely be necessary for the renal failure.

Transfusions may be needed for hemorrhaging; and, steroids may be necessary for treatment of thrombocytopenia.

Leptospirosis can be labeled a truly menacing disease. It fits the spectrum of agent, host, and environment which relates to clinical diseases with a community focus.

Now after having read the article, a few things came to mind. If a Bioweapon was indeed used, the perfect mode of transmission would be water. Think about it. This bacteria thrives in water. It would explain why the rate of infection seems to rise so quickly. It would also allow the guilty party to maintain some control, of who is infected and in what regions.

Leptospirosis would not be suspected during a world wide pandemic. It mimics Pneumonic Plague, Influenza, and a few other hemorrhagic virus'.
It also looks very much like the Spanish flu of 1918.

Unless one were testing for it, it would go unnoticed. In order to have a good prognosis Antibiotics need to be started by the 5th day, yet it takes almost 7 days for the titers to be high enough representing acute infection.

Just throwing around some other ideas, since Swine Flu was only detectable in half of the cases.

What do you think about this possibilty?

Since evidence or information from WHO or other bodies is lacking.........I think Pax has really stumbled on a "good theory" of what might be happening.......

I know Pax has been looking at the India situation as well........Hopefully she will post her findings which corolate to what is happening in Ukraine for all of us soon..........

I just think until all the test show that this is H1N1 or a mutation of ......we need to keep a very open mind.

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:51 PM
reply to post by BLUESHADOW747

Just because numbers confuse YOU, doesn't mean they're bad. Mmkay? Mathematics rules everything around you. The cash flow is illusory.

Who are you to come into this thread after 100 pages and say that we should stop discussing the FACTS, and focus on pure speculation and fear mongering??

You say none of us are doing anything.. But what have you done?? I got 40,000+ views on youtube to RAISE AWARENESS about the situation, even though in every video I admit we don't know what's going on. I would do more but I'm broke and unemployed, don't live in a city right now. What else should I be doing?

Trying to inform us on the importance of the situation is just preaching to the choir. Please start your own web board if you want to moderate the thought flow... This thread is about postulating theories, discussing facts, analysing the numbers, looking at expert analysis. If you don't like any of that then LEAVE and start a new thread.

P.S. - Its funny that when you get mad, your average punctuation count of 1 per post turns to 0.
[edit on 9-11-2009 by seattletruth]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by seattletruth]

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:56 PM
reply to post by Cloudsinthesky

this ia a great article and review hope everyone checks it out

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 03:58 PM
Dr. Nimian's latest update continues to raise concern about WHO's silence, since Thursday, about the Ukraine sequence information. In a radio interview on Nov 2, he felt quite certain that WHO would release the sequencing information as normal. But since they did not, he is becoming increasingly concerned that there might be some bad news, which they do not want to release.

.WHO's Silence

Latest Update November 9, 2009

1,031,597 Influenza/ARI

52,742 Hospitalized

174 Dead

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Angiras]

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 04:13 PM
reply to post by BLUESHADOW747

Thank you... I appreciate your thoughts.

I'll tell you something about how I'm feeling. Well, I'll try, anyway.

I remember watching a special documentary about test pilots. There was a part of it that has stayed with me. We're watching actual footage as a US test pilot is trying to land a new type of jet fighter. It's the first full test flight, and something has gone wrong. He is flying along just maybe 30 feet above the runway, trying to get the jet to straighten up so he can somehow land it. But it keeps yawing from side to side while he's slowly, slowly losing altitude. It's awful to watch... And even more so when we realize that knows this is probably going to end very badly. But all the time, he's on the radio to the watching designers and the build team, calmly telling them everything he is doing and how the aircraft is responding.

That's his total focus, to tell them all he can so they know as much as possible, so they can make the next one work better.

He's still talking to them when the jet crashes into the tarmac and goes up in a fireball.

The situation we are in now, is like being in a new jet during a test. It's like we're all in one, flying solo, because when it comes down to it, we're all on our own test flight if this gets really bad. (I pray it doesn't.) If all goes well then we can make a three-point landing. People have already been lost to whatever this thing is down the road a piece in Ukraine. For them, their planes didn't make it.

We don't know yet how ours will go, or if we'll even need to take that test flight.

So that's one reason I sometimes focus on the details and the stats. It stops me from otherwise focusing on what can happen. This thing with the stats, this is me talking to you guys and saying, "this is what I'm looking at...this is the nuts and bolts... But does it make any sense? Will it help us?"

Later, it probably will. But will that help my loved ones, or you, or any of us who don't yet know if our plane will make it?

Like I said some pages back, we have grandchildren here. I also have three more, even younger, on the other side of the world.

All I want is that someone figures out how to get them to a safe, three-point landing. That's what matters to me.

Anything that we can find that might help with that is worth the time.


posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 04:30 PM

Originally posted by BLUESHADOW747
reply to post by martin3030

I understand and do not know of your circumstances but as a whole the more questions asked, I feel we may get a better grip on this hell going on. I DO NOT KNOW IF U.S. HAS THEIR HEAD IN THE SAND, COMPLACENT OR IN DENIAL but, this affects everyone and I certainly am trying here to do what I can but, getting on here reaching for very valuable time and trying to ask get answers , and then reach possible solutions, sometimes with all the b.s. which I get caught in it too then, I ask wtf?

What is the US government suppose to do?

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 04:31 PM

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by JustMike

Can you see the light at the end of the tunnel? Is it a train coming at you?
Have you done a genealogy trace of your ancensors to see what gene pool you come from? If there's any northern European in there you might be safe because of breeding. Also what is your blood type?
Don't get stressed because it lowers your defenses... like they tell cancer patients, it's about the attitude. Of course I can see you are positive and strong so that helps.

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 04:44 PM
Crap. The smoking gun evidence that PROVES the military has been using gelatinous rain to vector infections has been staring us in the face since 1994. It happened in my home state, even. *smacks forehead*. Thank you Squiz for showing me this vid.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by seattletruth]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by seattletruth]

posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 05:20 PM
Mike I think the questions you have already allocated to asking Doc S will within themself be of considerable interest-of course if he can answer them.

Its difficult to have a happy medium here as you have seen-we are all in the dark and can only reason with what we can realistically digest.

There is every reason to suppose that we will very soon integrate this discussion with more from bordering countries-which I myself are as much interested in.
Ukraine appears to be getting lots of support now-we wont know or be able to report on all of that.
Bordering states have given help and support but will equally need that themselves if what we seen happening continues to advance.

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