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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by JustMike
 

All the intelligence sites stick with the political posturing of this event. Shame on Ukraine government. But as they write it off and ignore the pandemic is there more to it? Often smoke screens are in place so the general public doesn't see what is going on behind the scenes.

What I see behind the scenes is population control. And in some portion I'm all for that. Unfortunately the delivery is going to be botched so we are in Gods hands.




posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Back in this post and also this one yesterday, following on from a suggestion by ecoparity, I said that my wife would try to set up a meeting with her former boss (who for now I'll call "Doctor S"), who was head of the Dept of Virology in the Institute of Hygiene and Epidemiology here in Prague.

Good news: she made contact and "Doctor S" has agreed to visit us here at home next Tuesday. He knows we want to talk to him about the "Baxter Incident" and also the situation in Ukraine, so the fact that he's agreed to visit suggests he has some useful knowledge and insights that he can share.

Though retired, the good Doctor still visits his old stamping grounds on a daily basis and has plenty of contacts there. (A lot of them owe their jobs to him in fact.) So, if there's anything new to be learned that's not been "officially" released we might get to hear of it.

Naturally I'll try to record the interview and if I can, then I'll upload it to the ATS media here. My wife says that he's unlikely to object to our discussion being recorded. I also expect I'll be able to reveal his identity. Until then I'd prefer not to.

***If members could please send me U2U's with any questions they'd like me to ask "Doctor S" then I'll copy and print them and do my best to get answers -- if they are within his field of knowledge. I think this would be a better way to do this than to perhaps clutter up the thread and possibly confuse any new readers. Please try to confine your questions to matters of virology or epidemiology. He is an MD and D.Sc, but may not be able to help much with "NWO" types of questions. And please tell your ATS friends! It doesn't matter if they've replied on this thread or not, they can still send me questions to pass on.***

Mike

[edit on 7/11/09 by JustMike]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Question: Wasnt the Ukranian government outspoken in its stance against the "evil" pharmaceuticals, who were out to reap huge profits from the sale of vaccines, and thus refused to participate in their program? Did I imagine that?

Edit: I did some research. Apparently, there was a "ban" in the Ukraine against the flu vaccine starting in September, because the first shipment ended up killing a few children. So the government banned the import of any new vaccines.

The means that the outbreak could have been started to bring the "rogue" Ukrainian government into line, and under WHO control., for the benefit of the pharmaceuticals. Now the government is willing to accept and impose any and all vaccines upon its citizens, without question. Its one possible theory.

There may be a follow up to this. If the above scenario is correct, then given the recent announcements by the Polish Health Minister and PM, where there is an outright refusal to purchase untested vaccines, one might expect the next "outbreak" to occur in Poland, in an attempt to bring the Polish government into line. This amounts to a test for the theory.

Time will tell.



[edit on 7-11-2009 by Angiras]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Questions for the doctor.
What factors in designer biologicals can be made to spare certain populations? Is there a genetic code that would give a population an advantage over others? Does blood type factor?

Which doctors, former KGB, or others in that region have disappeared or are suspected of working in private labs not recognized by the government or mainstream?

Which of the EU are in bed with the Middle East in your opinion? Who in Northern Asia are in bed with Saudi?


[edit on 7-11-2009 by JJay55]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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I personally don't think we're over-reacting here. I know I posted some statistics to show that we're not there yet (as far as the numbers go), but I was just doing that so we would have some numbers to keep in our mind as the weeks went by. And also, to sort of keep myself calm! lol!

I DO think this is (potentially) very, very serious. The numbers might not be there, but we have so many reports of things not right that makes me really worry:

-Accidental leakages of tainted vaccines/vectors that could never have been leaked on "accident"

-A severe hemorrhagic illness showing up in multiple sites

-Reports of spraying by NATO above the Ukraine

-Governments urging mass vaccination. (You should not vaccinate DURING an epidemic! People who are infected could get sicker!)

-The Polish health minister being censored on live television for speaking badly about mass vaccinations

- A "drill" of biological warfare happening a month ago. (Similar to what happened on 9/11 and 7/7)

-And then, of course, the web bot predictions of something deadly in the air that would circulate the globe 9 times (will we have 9 waves compared to 3 waves in the 1918 epidemic?)

***
So, anyway, I was not trying to say that we have nothing to worry about. I didn't mean for my last post to come off that way. I was merely saying that the numbers aren't there YET, according to statistics.....but we should keep an eye on the numbers.

But, I think the most worrisome things are the above points I mentioned.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 7-11-2009 by nikiano]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by nikiano
....So, anyway, I was not trying to say that we have nothing to worry about. I didn't mean for my last post to come off that way. I was merely saying that the numbers aren't there YET, according to statistics.....but we should keep an eye on the numbers.

But, I think the most worrisome things are the above points I mentioned.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by nikiano]

Your last post didn't come off that way to me... Far from it. You made some good points and your concerns are very reasonable. My last reply to you (a couple of pages back) was mainly to elaborate on the stats provided by some of your sources and give a little detail for readers about the complexity of defining epidemics. I hope you saw it...


Several more pages back in the thread, a senior Ukrainian official stated that they expect around 12 million of their people will be affected in this first wave. That's serious epidemic levels. Then there's the next wave (or more) to follow later, as historically they do.

As you said it's still very early days in this. We're not even through the first wave yet, but exactly when it will peak is hard to guess. We don't even know how far we can trust the numbers we've been getting.

I also don't know if we have any real indications that the infection has reached my country yet. I hope to find out more about all this on Tuesday.

Regards,

Mike



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by JustMike

Your last post didn't come off that way to me... Far from it. You made some good points and your concerns are very reasonable. My last reply to you (a couple of pages back) was mainly to elaborate on the stats provided by some of your sources and give a little detail for readers about the complexity of defining epidemics. I hope you saw it...



I also don't know if we have any real indications that the infection has reached my country yet. I hope to find out more about all this on Tuesday.



Yes, I did see it. Good post.


I hope you guys don't get it...Czech Republic, right? Best of luck to you.

Although, there was a thread someone started today who asked "should we TRY" to get the flu now, so we have some immunity later.

I told him that I actually think that might not be such crazy thinking! If he can catch a mild strain of it before it really mutates in later waves, it might be better than getting the vaccine!

After all, when we were little, parents routinely exposed their kids to chickenpox, because if you get it when you're young, it's better than if you get it when you're old.

So, maybe I should be wishing for you guys to get the first wave, so you don't get a worse wave in the future???

I have no idea anymore.


Anyway, I'll just say....um...may the force be with you.
That should cover it. lol!



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 



-And then, of course, the web bot predictions of something deadly in the air that would circulate the globe 9 times (will we have 9 waves compared to 3 waves in the 1918 epidemic?)


nikiano, this is just a thought. Could the "9" in the web bot forecast be an indication of how many variations/mutations of the virus there will be circulating around before it finally dies out or mutates into a weak virus? In other words, if the Ukrainian virus is a more potent mutation than the regular H1N1, we will see yet 8 more variations, each more virulent than the one that preceded it, before it finally evolves into a weaker form?



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 


Let's forget about, for a second, whether the web-bot is accurate or not and assume that it is (if the interpretation is correct). I would say, "why not, Wayno?"
H1N1 circulates around the world 9 times. At some point during circulation a mutation catches on and moves through the population of the earth. At some point it does it again, until you reach the total of 9.
I mean, I read yesterday or the day before that H1N1 had infected tribal indians in the Amazon. It's reaching those hard to reach places, now.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 

Yep... Czech Republic... Until 1/1/93 it was Czechoslovakia, and so before that date, this country had a border with Ukraine. Now the Slovaks separate us from them.

Try to catch the flu? One could do worse, I guess. But what if you caught the wrong flu? Hmmm...

I had the flu back in January. Hadn't been so sick in years. Wasn't even an epidemic here, either. Just got unlucky. Or lucky, maybe.

All depends what this latest one is. I'm a bit older so I've been exposed to most that have been around from the 1957 pandemic onwards, but lots of younger people maybe haven't. Been forty years since the last serious pandemic, after all. (1968-70, depending what country you were in.)

The reports that this outbreak in Ukraine is really hitting 40-yr-olds and under might suggest it's closer to an old strain or at least viral clade. But I'm no expert. I'll ask "Doctor S" on Tuesday if we haven't found out by then.

Mike



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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Some speculation:
I was just reading this article about the crimean-congo hemorrhagic fever:

www.washingtontimes.com...

Maybe, this is the unknown illness killing people in the Ukraine. Look at the symptoms and incubation period:


Dr. Radke said the hemorrhagic fever is similar to Ebola "in that the end there is internal degeneration and external bleeding. From the Black Sea to upper Turkey, you'll see a dozen or more cases a year. Afghanistan falls right in the middle."



Symptoms of Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever include sudden fever, dizziness, neck pain, aching muscles, soreness in the eyes and sensitivity to light. Early on, nausea, vomiting and sore throat occur.



The virus incubation period depends on how the virus was acquired. If the infection is via tick bite, the incubation period is roughly one to three days, with a maximum of nine days, Dr. Radike said. If the illness is not caught early, it is often fatal, he said. The mortality rate is 30 percent, according to the CDC.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by really
 


Is this spread person to person, or just in tick bites.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by whoreallyknows
reply to post by really
 


Is this spread person to person, or just in tick bites.


As far as I know, just tick bites. One sec....

Some facts from the CDC:


What is Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever?
Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever (CCHF) is caused by infection with a tick-borne virus (Nairovirus) in the family Bunyaviridae. The disease was first characterized in the Crimea in 1944 and given the name Crimean hemorrhagic fever. It was then later recognized in 1969 as the cause of illness in the Congo, thus resulting in the current name of the disease.

Where is the disease found?
Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever is found in Eastern Europe, particularly in the former Soviet Union. It is also distributed throughout the Mediterranean, in northwestern China, central Asia, southern Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and the Indian subcontinent.


www.cdc.gov...



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by really
 

Yes, I was puzzling over that Crimean-Congo fever after a member brought it up. I mean, its acquired from ticks. I haven't been able to find anything that says it just transfers person to person, and certainly not on an epidemic scale.

Soldiers travel. How do we know that the soldier in question acquired the disease where he fell ill to it? You can move a soldier anywhere in the world in a couple of days.

And unlike fleas, if a tick latches on to you it can be hours or even a day or two before you even know about it. I know this from personal experience here.

Odd, isolated incident? Maybe.

Curious? Very.

Mike

EDIT to add: Just double checked and that soldier died on Sept 16. Sorry if I missed that vital date in any member's post. It was plenty warm enough then and ideal for ticks. So, that makes it less strange. We have to wonder why the military is only taking follow-up action now, but they are the military and who knows what they've been doing behind the scenes? Sometimes they have to hold back info.

Mike

[edit on 7/11/09 by JustMike]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


I agree. It's hard to know. Last I looked just over 100 officially have died in the Ukraine from H1N1 or whatever they have over there. It is possible this could be from ticks. From what I remember reading it was mostly in one region of the Ukraine, too.
Obviously, this is purely speculation. I just saw the symptoms and the results and that there is only a 3 day incubation period in many cases and thought that it was an odd coincidence.
Then again, you'd figure the country where Crimean-Congo fever first made it's appearance would know what to look for.
I don't know. I'm so distrusting of government and media in general lately that who knows what to believe.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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Ukraine Expected to Surpass 1 Million Infections in Only 10 Days; the U.S. took 10 weeks. From pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com... and pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com...

I will not post all of this but if you are into the nuts and bolts this is informative.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by waterdoctor
Ukraine Expected to Surpass 1 Million Infections in Only 10 Days; the U.S. took 10 weeks. From pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com... and pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com...


Wow!!! That's huge to say the least. I know that it has spread outside a bit but, with those numbers, I'm surprised neighboring countries aren't showing more infected yet.
Obviously, I'm not a scientist or a doctor but doesn't that seem a little fishy.
Either way, thanks for the info waterdoctor. Much appreciated. By the way, how reliable is this site?



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by really

Originally posted by waterdoctor
Ukraine Expected to Surpass 1 Million Infections in Only 10 Days; the U.S. took 10 weeks. From pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com... and pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com...


Wow!!! That's huge to say the least. I know that it has spread outside a bit but, with those numbers, I'm surprised neighboring countries aren't showing more infected yet.
Obviously, I'm not a scientist or a doctor but doesn't that seem a little fishy.
Either way, thanks for the info waterdoctor. Much appreciated. By the way, how reliable is this site?


I have no idea as to how reliable any site is now
I am not taking the time to vet any of the news coming across now but have moved into getting ready for what may and I say may come. I am a prepper and I admit it. However it has served me well through range fires, floods, tornadoes and economic downturns. I have not posted preparations here as this is a breaking news section.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by waterdoctor
 


Thanks, man. I appreciate the honesty. Either way, 10 days to spread to the amount of people it spread to here in 10 weeks is big news. Even if the virus hasn't become more powerful (in the percentage of infected killed) just the higher numbers and quicker infection rate will end up killing more people as hospitals won't be able to keep up.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by really
 

Sorry to disagree but there's really no way that over 100 people died from tick-vectored infections in Ukraine in just a couple of weeks. That's about what they might get in ten years. (We get two or three deaths a year here from tick-vectored infections and Ukraine has 4.5 times our population.)

There have been over 800,000 infected people in Ukraine in this outbreak. They have flu or flu-like symptoms. It's not possible that ticks would be the vector for respiratory disease spread on such a massive scale. Also, Doctors in this part of the world are familiar with infections caused by ticks. They're very distinctive, as is the classic bite mark -- or even the still-attached tick's head! ewww...

Not arguing that it's an odd coincidence. I said so myself in some earlier posts. But if ticks were causing the infections and deaths in Ukraine we'd know about it because it would be obvious to all. In this part of the world we are used to ticks and we know to be wary of them and remove the nasty little blighters asap. It's something even little kids know about. That's why we fortunately get very few deaths caused by them.

So, not ticks. Not that many ticks...

EDIT: need to add, though, that like you I'm finding it hard to know what to believe in respect of numbers. I'm hoping to get some more solid info soon.
Also, please don't take my comments as any criticism of yourself. I don't mean them that way. It's good to put our thoughts out here and let others comment on them.


Best regards,

Mike


[edit on 7/11/09 by JustMike]



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