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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity


You haven't gotten "half a report". The WHO hasn't released any report yet.

What you're talking about is from a news article. Until the WHO releases the genetic analysis we have "no report".


Eco,

The WHO doesn't run lab reports....labs runs lab reports. A Lab Director must finalize all reports. If it was sent to an an independent lab, then the Lab Director of that lab would have run his own reports (1 or more pending report, and a final report) and then THAT final report would have been given to the WHO or to the press, or to whoever.

WHO is just supervising everything from above. The WHO may have RE-reported what the lab report was, but the WHO does not make lab reports.... only a lab and a lab director can publish a final report.

Now, maybe the WHO has a world headquarters lab in London....with their own lab director.... that I don't know about. If that's the case, then maybe they have their own lab, and they're not using a private lab. In which case, maybe there is a WHO lab director running the lab in London.

But I would like to know who owns the lab....and who the lab is run by....and who is issuing the lab reports. And I'd like to see the entire FINAL report that was published by the Lab (lab director) in London.

Was it sent to a government lab? A private lab? An international lab? A WHO lab?

Anyone know?



Multiple edits by me. I obviously can't type today, as well as subtract.


[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]




posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Some strange case of death from "swine flu":
wek.com.ua...

According to the Chief Health Officer of Kyiv Anatolij Ponomarenko, one woman, who was weighing over 200 kg and was almost never leaving her room, somehow got infected with "swine flu" and died within 40 minutes from arriving into hospital.

Comment: relating to my previous post on a cat infected with swine flu, could it be that infected rats or mice may spread the disease? That is only my speculation, since so far there is no evidence on the possibility of such transmission.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by ahemot]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by infinite
 


"6 doctors died" that sucks because when so many people are getting sick, they need all the doctors they have.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


Sorry for the off-topic, as you started it. This shows you that your self induced FREEDOM in the USA against FREEDOM in EUROPE is a big lie. We have as much, if not same, FREEDOM as you do.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by infinite
 


"6 doctors died" that sucks because when so many people are getting sick, they need all the doctors they have.


Actually, another 600 medical workers are ill, of whom 200 are doctors according to this report:
www.kyivpost.com...



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Amagnon
The globalists are totally responsible for Ukraines poor state of preparedness for this emergency - they surely knew it would occur, as they surely planned it.


95 dead Ukranians is a respiratory bio-terror, while 41k people in the US die yearly from the flu? So looks like they spent about $20 on this depop plan you are implying and risking a revolt too.

Looks to me you'd probably be better off not getting the vaccine, unless you like the idea of being a lab rat.





[edit on 5-11-2009 by Regenmacher]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

UPDATE on Polish Health Minister


theflucase.com... allow-use-of-untested-swine-flu-jabs-reveals-secret-contracts-violate-the-law&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105〈=nl

The Polish Health Minister Eva Kopacz today told Parliament during a heated debate on the swine flu vaccination that she, as a qualified family doctor with more than 20 year of experience, will not authorise the use of untested vaccines on millions of people in Poland when there is inadequate information about the safety of the jabs.

She said the secret contract that the Polish government was supposed to sign with pharmaceutical companies had more than 20 clauses which are against the law.

K


Yeay! Good for her!

I would like to see those contracts.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity


Even after all the discussion we really don't know how many were actually used for analysis. The article that information came from did not specify anything other than the detection of H1N1 in 15 of the samples. It did not say anything about how many were prepared for sequencing and so on.

In the end it doesn't matter, if people do not believe we will get accurate data between the WHO and the research community the number of samples makes no difference.


You are correct in your statements. I was attempting to bring to light what the true nature of the sampling and testing process is. What IMO gives me some background to comment on this is 16 years of running a process control lab from setting protocols, training the technicians, over sight and writing procedures. During that time we have welcomed independent audits of our lab and have been sighted as having a process control control bands that are an order of magnitude higher than the industry standard.

The testing that is being done now is a very exacting process and is not like what people see on CSI. We are talking about samples that have at best a very low part per trillion target. You have to isolate this RNA and replicate it without cross contamination to the point that you have enough sample to run to get the genome. You know this but others here may not. This is a very time intensive and detailed intensive test process that at many steps can result in a bad result. There is a reason why only a couple of labs in the world are accredited to do this work. To many people who do not understand the dynamics of this process put more faith in the test results than in clinical observations. This is the point of where we are at now. Many of the clinical observations are consistent with what has been seen with this virus in other countries. The one that has had me bothered all along is that the incidence and spread of the virus is outside of what I have been led to believe was the norm. I was trained to look for the outliers and determine if they were significant. If so then why were the outliers present.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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On the TV, BBC news24 is posting information about the Ukraine under the header "has the swine flu mutated".

I have just missed the report, I was in another room at the time but it is now making mainstream at least.


[edit on 5-11-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
On the TV, BBC news24 is posting information about the Ukraine under the header "has the swine flu mutated".

I have just missed the report, I was in another room at the time but it is now making mainstream at least.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]


Regardless how much it mutates, the MSM will say that the "swine flu" vaccine will still work against it.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
On the TV, BBC news24 is posting information about the Ukraine under the header "has the swine flu mutated".

I have just missed the report, I was in another room at the time but it is now making mainstream at least.


[edit on 5-11-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]


Keep an eye on that for us. Since the testing facility is in London its possible the BBC may get an answer before the official WHO update.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
Clarification on the article which claims a local WHO official said the virus is a mutated one formed from three strains:

The original article it links to does not say that at all. The quote is the same one made by the President we saw previously.

No one is seeing this in all the chaos but you are correct. There is no verification of the President's claims.
But since this whole thing was started by the opposition to the President for election purposes, what if he's right? It would be easy to quell his resources.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
On the TV, BBC news24 is posting information about the Ukraine under the header "has the swine flu mutated".

I have just missed the report, I was in another room at the time but it is now making mainstream at least.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]


Regardless how much it mutates, the MSM will say that the "swine flu" vaccine will still work against it.


So long as the mutation isn't extreme, a vaccine for a similar mutation will still confer some cross reactive immunity.

This is the same reason why older people are more immune to this virus. They've been hit with previous similar pandemics, and therefore about half of them have some form of cross reactive immunity to this swine flu.

[edit on 2009/11/5 by Aeons]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by ahemot

Regardless how much it mutates, the MSM will say that the "swine flu" vaccine will still work against it.


Oh I agree completely. I have the news channel up now (until wife decides it is time for the soaps) and as soon as I see the report again I will take notes and post the details.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by seattletruth
 


H1N1 has been mutating like a superhero for months. Virtually untracked because the southern hemisphere and the third world sent almost no samples for analysis over the last 5 months.

That being said, there are about 30 known mutations already.

The virus picked up its last set of foreign chromosones (recombination with another virus) last fall.

The only good part about this is that viruses tend toward becoming less lethal not more lethal. Killing your host is bad viral survival technique.


There's an unreported scandal in that. Niman mentioned on the Rense show that several samples sent for testing were never released - no results and no genetic profiles for researchers. If true it might lead to a conspiracy involving the mutations leading up to now being "hidden".

There's a lot of stuff hanging around waiting for the WHO report...


Who is covering up the data!(?)

And you're waiting for their authoritative report? Polly want a cracker?

Is independent thought dead? Is there not yet enough evidence to understand all this? Are people still confused?

If anyone is still confused by what is happening conceptually - then no amount of data is going to help. Those people just want someone to tell them what to think - so they don't have to bother themselves.

I had my pneumonia vaccination today - checked the adjuvants - nothing nasty - it was painless - no immediate after effects other than a bit of lethargy. I'm assuming the crap in Ukraine is viral though, but at least I won't get pneumonia on top of my pneumonia.

I asked for some anti-virals at the hospital - they said we have Tamiflu, I said it is a global pandemic where everyone is using Tamiflu - it will certainly be resistant - they said we ONLY have Tamiflu.

I bought Tamiflu, though I probably wont use it myself - shelled out close to $200 for 5 courses - because people around me I know won't be able to afford it if they need it.

The only upside is - it is made locally by the government of this country - who are not part of the globalist agenda - in fact they kicked the globalist puppet out with a military coup. He has still been paying agitators here though - and tried a few assassinations and got some successful dismissals from office through trumped up crap.

The military old guard might not be nice, might be corrupt - but they are not the type to bend over every which way for the globalists - they have old wealth, and they want to keep it in the family.

Still - I have no faith in the Tamiflu at all really, but I don't know any good alternatives.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55

Ok, on a lighter note, every time I see The WHO I think of the band and pinball wizard Roger Daltry and those crazy Elton John shoes.



JJay.... now I am starting to think of Roger Daltry, too, everytime the WHO is mentioned
lol!

Also on a lighter note, they are talking about the Ukraine thing on a website called "Rapturewatch!" (giggle)




[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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WHO claim that there is no evidence to show that the virus has mutated (including in Ukraine)

uk.reuters.com...



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Amagnon
The globalists are totally responsible for Ukraines poor state of preparedness for this emergency - they surely knew it would occur, as they surely planned it.


95 dead Ukranians is a respiratory bio-terror, while 41k people in the US die yearly from the flu? So looks like they spent about $20 on this depop plan you are implying and risking a revolt too.

Looks to me you'd probably be better off not getting the vaccine, unless you like the idea of being a lab rat.



Not quite sure what your driving at here - I'll assume the last comment is asserting I am pro vaccine or something. Certainly not - the vaccine was going to be used to initiate this event to start with, and regardless its definitely nasty either way.

As far as the failed depop plan - I think wait and see is better than jumping ahead.

The number of around 100 dead is only for a period less than a week - numbers infected nearly doubled every day, same with hospital admissions. The area first effected seems to have been sparsely populated - so death rates relate to a small population, not the larger population of some 46mil(?).

There is no evidence that suggests to me that this is not going to be extremely deadly.

Perhaps the flu released in Mexico was the same as this one originally, but it mutated to a less deadly strain?

Due to additional data available, two things stand out to me.

Three viruses were mentioned by the prime minister, and 3 viruses were present in the Baxter live virus fiasco.

There are rumours of NATO planes spraying - rumours have been denied, but Aren heard noises at night - sounded unusual and like planes. Circumstantial evidence - but we are unlikely to get better.

My speculative conclusion - NATO have been spraying using planes 3 types of virus - hoping to get a mutation in Ukraine that will be deadly and virulent. Mission accomplished.

Its possible that the deaths are not from flu anyway - but pneumonic plague - though not my central theory, its still fairly plausible - and WHO can 'fail to identify' it for ages, because 'they were only looking for viruses'.

The scum are winning as always - while people remain ignorant and credulous - then we will remain slaves of the feudal lords.

Even the death of millions will not wake people from their slumber I tjhnk.



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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To understand and evaluate any flu virus's propensity to mutate, you have to realize that it is an RNA virus, and as such has no copy-proofing mechanism like DNA does. So properly speaking, flu virii mutate every time they replicate. Indeed, many researchers refer to what replicates within any given cell as a "mutant swarm":

(From The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History. Revised ed. New York: Penguin Books, 2005, by John M. Barry)


Whenever an organism reproduces, its genes try to make exact copies of themselves. But sometimes mistakes--mutations--occur in this process.


This is true whether the genes belong to people, plants, or viruses. The more advanced the organism, however, the more mechanisms exist to prevent mutations. A person mutates at a much slower rate than bacteria, bacteria mutates at a much slower rate than a virus--and a DNA virus mutates at a much slower rate than an RNA virus.

DNA has a kind of built-in proofreading mechanism to cut down on copying mistakes. RNA has no proofreading mechanism whatsoever, no way to protect against mutation. So viruses that use RNA to carry their genetic information mutate much faster--from 10,000 to 1 million times faster--than any DNA virus.

Different RNA viruses mutate at different rates as well. A few mutate so rapidly that virologists consider them not so much a population of copies of the same virus as what they call a "quasi species" or a "mutant swarm."

These mutant swarms contain trillions and trillions of closely related but different viruses. Even the viruses produced from a single cell will include many different versions of themselves, and the swarm as a whole will routinely contain almost every possible permutation of its genetic code.

Most of these mutations interfere with the functioning of the virus and will either destroy the virus outright or destroy its ability to infect. But other mutations, sometimes in a single base, a single letter, in its genetic code will allow the virus to adapt rapidly to a new situation. It is this adaptability that explains why these quasi species, these mutant swarms, can move rapidly back and forth between different environments and also develop extraordinarily rapid drug resistance. As one investigator has observed, the rapid mutation "confers a certain randomness to the disease processes that accompany RNA [viral] infections."

Influenza is an RNA virus. So is HIV and the coronavirus. And of all RNA viruses, influenza and HIV are among those that mutate the fastest. The influenza virus mutates so fast that 99 percent of the 100,000 to 1 million new viruses that burst out of a cell in the reproduction process (p. 106) are too defective to infect another cell and reproduce again. But that still leaves between 1,000 and 10,000 viruses that can infect another cell.

Both influenza and HIV fit the concept of a quasi species, of a mutant swarm. In both, a drug-resistant mutation can emerge within days. And the influenza virus reproduces rapidly--far faster than HIV. Therefore it adapts rapidly as well, often too rapidly for the immune system to respond.



So the flu, any flu, has a very high propensity to mutate naturally. This could be what has happened in the Ukraine. Add in the fact that the Ukraine is also the country that is home to Chernobyl, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that the thing's mutated in a bad direction there. But it's safe to assume that it has mutated many times already, and is mutating as we speak.

That said, however, we have no, repeat no, proof whatsoever one way or the other yet, other than the fact that it (Ukrainian version) is extremely transmissible and fairly deadly. I am as frustrated as everyone else with the lack of hard facts...we just have to continue to wait and see, unfortunately.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by apacheman]



posted on Nov, 5 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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If H1N1 has mutated with a virulent strain of seasonal flu, then one can assume that seasonal flu vaccination may provide some defense.

Seasonal flu vaccinations may be available without the nasty adjuvants - I am not certain - but they don't have the blanket indemnity that applies to the swine flu vaccine though.

I got the pneumonia vaccine today pneumo23 I believe it was called.

Now I am considering a seasonal flu vaccine - might have a look at whats in it first though - I am NOT getting any new swine flu vaccine though - not a chance.

EDIT: Fears of a deadly global pandemic have not harmed the price of gold and silver - what a surprise. Investment wise, I am in one of those crazy people - who believe in precious metals in your hand. 95% invested in precious metals - and a little in currency trading.

I see a stock crash shortly - might be as long as 6 to 12 months though - but I suspect sooner rather than later. If this pandemic moves - and I have no reason to doubt it will, it is going to cause some real short term loss of confidence - panic sales in stocks are quite possible.

Dollar is probably going to rally - although the surge in gold dampens that expectation a little bit - I think a stock crash this time around should boost gold, rather than crash it as occurred during the last crash.

I'm keeping a fairly nuetral postion right now - taking profits on metals and putting them into currency positons. Balancing on long side of the dollar, and slightly short on gold. Bah - I'm a heretic to my own religion - NEVER SHORT GOLD! Ok - maybe this time is a good time . . everyone should buy and own gold and silver - though buy the dips - gold is in new highs last couple days.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Amagnon]



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