Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

The 1918 flu began as a mild condition similar to a common cold, the seasons changed and the people started dying. It took a while. It honestly does resemble this, but I seriously hope not.
I'd be inclined to say it's been activated or encouraged to mutate considering the bizarre circumstances.

reply to post by squiz


One of the theories I find more "believable" at least for me personally is that the virus is a lab originated one but that it came from vaccines for pigs in Mexico.

I've never bothered to check on the actual swine vaccines and see what the genetic profile was for them in the years leading up to the outbreak.

The rough part is that it could be part vaccine and part other vaccine or other natural flu which all combined in the pigs to make 1918 v2 point O.

That's where it starts to fall off on the believability thing.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Cadbury

 

It's all we have until report 2, hopefully the definitive volume on mutation.

It's not. Although not from The World Health Organisation directly, we do have this which is more recent and in contradiction to the WHO's earlier report:

President.gov.ua

First. Unlike similar epidemics in other countries, three pathogens of viral infections came to Ukraine at the same time: two of them are seasonal flu and the third is the A/H1N1.

According to virologists, such a combination of infections due to mutation may produce a new, even more aggressive virus.

That's why I have addressed the United Nations with the request to conduct a virologic examination in Ukraine and to establish the appropriate laboratory in order to take timely preventive measures.

Your second question is one of those weird issues I'd like a better answer for as well. The virologist claim H1N1 has displaced all other seasonal flu by being better able to infect hosts and all that stuff.

Then they say 99 percent of all influenza in E Europe is H1N1. OK. Doesn't that mean 1 percent might be another type? Then they say, no - all all influenza in E Europe is H1N1. And we all say

Does that 1 percent just not count in virology land? Maybe virology math has no zero - I don't get it either and they won't explain it. I think it's some kind of inside joke lab geek thing.

I've heard reports that only a relatively small number of hospitalisations and deaths were/are due to H1N1, though. I'm not sure why WHO is making massive assumptions and jumping to conclusions if their Mill Hill results aren't even in yet. And if they are in, why aren't they independently confirmed and published already? The report you quoted was from the 3rd.

Ok, I went searching for updated statistics with today's date (Nov 5th) and I found this:

en.apa.az...

Flu death toll rises to 100 in Ukraine

[ 05 Nov 2009 13:54 ]


Baku – APA. According to the reports to November 5, 96 people died as a result of flu epidemic in Ukraine, chairwoman of the health committee of Verkhovni Rada Tatyana Bakhteyeva said at the parliament, APA reports quoting Ukrainska Pravda online source. She said there were 6 doctors, 7 pregnant women and 9 children among the victims.

Totally 478 thousand were infected with flu, but only 17 AH1N1 infection cases were identified in the country. 6 died from the “swine flu”.

Originally posted by ahemot
Officials: Swine flu confirmed in Iowa cat:
news.yahoo.com...

Maybe someone would comment on that information?

It will definitely take more than one (or even a few) veterinarians and MSM articles to make me believe this! Sounds like the pet industry wants it's share of the hoopla and profit$ to be made from H1N1 too... which I'm sure many have considered.

If animals are getting it from Humans now... heh... we are definitely at the end of times. Humans are already making too many creatures extinct.

Edit to add: They are not even testing humans for this virus and yet that article wants us to believe they are testing animals?! [/heh!]

[edit on 11/5/2009 by dreams n chains]

[edit on 11/5/2009 by dreams n chains]

I also found this very interesting article, dated today (Nov 5th).

WHO Continues To Deceive:
Assumes That Ukraine Plague Is H1N1 Swine Flu

preventdisease.com...

WHO Continues To Deceive: Assumes
That Ukraine Plague Is H1N1 Swine Flu

The World Health Organization (WHO) is continuing to deceive the world by stating sweeping assumptions about the Ukraine pandemic. Despite huge differences in transmission and deaths rates, the agency stated Tuesday that it was valid to assume that most of the cases of influenza reportedly combing through the Ukraine were caused by the pandemic A(H1N1) virus.

There is very little left to be respected of the WHO. After months of using junk science and contradictions to conceal actual swine flu cases, they are now launching phase two of their deceptive operation: Convince the world that a more lethal strain of flu is still the same H1N1 virus.

Infectious disease expert Dr. Donald Lau explained that the chances of the Ukrainian pandemic being the same H1N1 virus that has infected the world are very low. "The statistical probability of this being the same H1N1 virus are infinitesimally small." Dr. Lau stated that the high viral transmission rates are extremely unusual for H1N1 and there is almost certainly some type of new virus, or a lethal recombination that has occurred.

Dr. Lau speculated that the Ukraine government or the WHO may possibly be withholding and/or suppressing information for some unknown reason. "There must have been some misrepresentation of actual deaths versus infection rates." Dr. Lau has estimated the probable fatality rate of this new virus to be close to 0.5 percent which is astronomically higher than the H1N1 virus in any part of the world.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]

Latest update;
Of 31 samples sent to London for testing 15 have shown to be positive for swine flu.


www.kyivpost.com...


also quote;

"Meanwhile, over 600 doctors Kyiv have fallen sick with the flue and acute respiratory illnesses, according to Kyiv deputy Mayor Iryna Kilchitskaya, who on Nov. 5 told a daily Kyiv newspaper that 200 of the afflicted are doctors.

In a related story, Ihor Pokanevych, head of the WHO office in Kyiv, told Deutsche Welle on Nov. 5 that in Ukraine, as in the rest of the world, there will be three waves of the swine flu virus: the first – which Ukraine is experiencing now, the second – in the spring, and the third – during the autumn of 2010.

Pokanevych noted that the current pandemic is complicated to sort out because it involves three strains of flu virus: two seasonal strains [of the Brisbane] flu and the swine flu, which as a result could lead the virus to mutate into a still more virulent, new virus"

[edit on 5-11-2009 by martin3030]

Originally posted by martin3030
Latest update;
Of 31 samples sent to London for testing 15 have shown to be positive for swine flu.


www.kyivpost.com...

Great find. They slipped those London results in under the radar, didn't they? Or have I missed the official announcement?

reply to post by Cadbury


Well we each get to decide who we find credible. Thats everyone's right. I personally don't believe anything coming from the Ukraine govt after all the contradictions and political gesturing and infighting.

Until a credible virologist or or the WHO confirms it I'm not buying the new three virus theory. That's not to say it's impossible.

At least the WHO publishes the work so it can be verified. That doesn't rule out all weirdness on their part but its better than no methodology for review.

reply to post by nikiano


I guess you should of thought about all that before you responded that you don't need to show the math and don't need to have any evidence of cat to human transmission, ehh? And there's a big difference between sarcasm and light hearted humor e.g. lol.

A reason why mods are jumping on this thread because of too much emotionalized propaganda devoid of facts and is closer to outright fraud that's designed for shock or troll value, which in turn gets people irate and turns the thread into a big joke full of disinfo and ego wars.

Tigipko: Flu epidemic in Ukraine used to distract public attention from real problems

The Ukraine incident will probably be found to be mostly a fear driven political agenda, since it's already too late for vaccines in the height of an outbreak. One cat catching the flu news is yet another example of this same tactic to push the vaccine agenda or troll for reactions.

With reference to the earlier posts, relating to the untested nature of the swine flu vaccinations, and the use of the public themselves, as an unpaid, unprotected test group for these vaccinations...

An article from the Dailymail in the UK has the following headline:

Fears rise over side effects of Tamiflu as cases of adverse reactions double in a week

...and states:

"Figures from the drugs safety watchdog, seen by the Daily Mail, show there have been 293 reports of side effects from the powerful antiviral since the beginning of April, when the swine flu outbreak began.
This compares to the 150 reported the week before - a jump of 143 in only seven days. The cases include heart and eye problems, and psychiatric disorders."

"More than half of children who take Tamiflu suffer from nausea, nightmares and other reactions."

Link to source article from dailymail.co.uk

It would certainly seem from this evidence, that there are indeed serious side-effects from the "un-tested" swine flu jabs.
Isn't it quite a co-incidence that the manufacturers are immune from prosecution?

G

Originally posted by martin3030
Latest update;
Of 31 samples sent to London for testing 15 have shown to be positive for swine flu.
www.kyivpost.com...
[edit on 5-11-2009 by martin3030]

Wow! The same article also claims that there are 633, 877 cases of flu in Ukraine. If all flu now is "swine flu", then Ukraine alone has more cases of "swine flu" than the entire world, which is 599,972 according to www.flucount.org...
Is it correct?

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Cadbury

 

Well we each get to decide who we find credible. Thats everyone's right. I personally don't believe anything coming from the Ukraine govt after all the contradictions and political gesturing and infighting.

Until a credible virologist or or the WHO confirms it I'm not buying the new three virus theory. That's not to say it's impossible.

At least the WHO publishes the work so it can be verified. That doesn't rule out all weirdness on their part but its better than no methodology for review.

Eco -

See my post above with an article from preventdisease.com, referencing Dr. Lau, an infectious disease expert, who believes the WHO is deceiving the world, deliberately.

By the way, Eco, just curious....what do you do for a living?

[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by martin3030
Latest update;
Of 31 samples sent to London for testing 15 have shown to be positive for swine flu.

Does this mean that 16 of 31 samples sent to London, do NOT have any trace of swine flu H1N1?

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Gordi The Drummer]

Originally posted by ecoparity
Well we each get to decide who we find credible. Thats everyone's right. I personally don't believe anything coming from the Ukraine govt after all the contradictions and political gesturing and infighting.

Until a credible virologist or or the WHO confirms it I'm not buying the new three virus theory. That's not to say it's impossible.

Apparently, according the Kyiv Post, the London results are in and less than half of samples received were swine flu. Are they making those numbers up?

At least the WHO publishes the work so it can be verified. That doesn't rule out all weirdness on their part but its better than no methodology for review.

Really? So why is Kyiv Post publishing their Mill Hill results for them, then? You said Update 1 was all we had. At this very moment in time I'm starting to question you just as much as I question the World Health Organisation, sir.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
reply to post by nikiano

 

I guess you should of thought about all that before you responded that you don't need to show the math and don't need to have any evidence of cat to human transmission, ehh?

Still trying to bait me, eh? Whatever, dude.

But there ISN'T any math needed to make a logical assumption that if the H1N1 jumped from human to cat then it could also jump from cat to human. No math required. I still stand by that statement.

What you should have asked me for is historical data, if that was the point you were trying to make, rather than asking me for an example of my computational skills.

----

Edit to add:

Just thought of something...this cat makes it now the 4th species that the H1N1 has jumped to, right? Humans, pigs, birds, and now cats. Wonder what species is next?

Ok, back to the Ukraine....where was I?





[edit on 5-11-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by Cadbury
Lets not start attacking one another...I feel bad that maybe I was responsible for getting this thread shut down yesterday

Originally posted by Cadbury

Originally posted by ecoparity
Well we each get to decide who we find credible. Thats everyone's right. I personally don't believe anything coming from the Ukraine govt after all the contradictions and political gesturing and infighting.

Until a credible virologist or or the WHO confirms it I'm not buying the new three virus theory. That's not to say it's impossible.

Apparently, according the Kyiv Post, the London results are in and less than half of samples received were swine flu. Are they making those numbers up?

At least the WHO publishes the work so it can be verified. That doesn't rule out all weirdness on their part but its better than no methodology for review.

Really? So why is Kyiv Post publishing their Mill Hill results for them, then? You said Update 1 was all we had. At this very moment in time I'm starting to question you just as much as I question the World Health Organisation, sir.

The WHO hasn't released the official report yet. Earlier quotes about a new strain were attributed to politicians. If the local WHO official really did say that and is correct we may just have found out there has been a mutation before the official report comes out.

I'm trying to get some clarification on that right now.

WHO did not test all the samples is what the virology community says.

Feel free to check the WHO website if you think update 2 is out and let's refrain from personal attacks and stick to the data.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


Looks like many of these remedies side effects can be as bad than the actual flu. I also wonder if they are just trying to unload stockpiles of Tamiflu , since the latest strains of H1N1 are being reported as having built a resistant to it, and where the Ukraine has bought 700,000 doses.

Here's another, which can permanently eliminate people's sense of smell.

The US Drug Watchdog Calls Zicam Nasal Gel or Zicam Swabs a Looming Disaster

Kiev post is not the only ones announcing this-Interfax Ukraine has also released it.


www.interfax.com.ua...