Sarah Palin - Death Panel is Back In!!!

reply to post by zlots331

Why thank you!
I tend to post in a humorous sarcastic tone sometimes when I feel the occasion calls for it.
Sometimes the mods are not amused.

reply to post by shrike071


Sounds like socialism to me.
I'll take capitalism.
However, i am for Health Care Reform!
Here you go:
Step 1) Tort Reform

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
You don't have a family?
How were you born?

I didn't say that I didn't have a family. This isn't about me. I have good insurance and I don't need end of life counseling. But I'm not self-centered enough to think that everyone has it as good as I do.

My point was that there are people who are alone in this world, who don't have a "family circle" to discuss such things with. There are families who don't have a lawyer in the bunch. There are plenty of people who have NO CLUE about what's available to them. They don't know what a living will or hospice is.

Why do you want to be taken care of by the government?

Where do you get the idea that I do? I'm good. I'm in good shape. I just have the experience and maturity to know that not everyone is as fortunate as I.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by shrike071

 

Step 1) Tort Reform

Tort-Reform, the darling of the Republican right, has been shown many times to be nothing other than a red herring.

Back in 2004, the Congressional Budget Office found that medical malpractice amounted to less than 2% of healthcare spending. Interesting thing about 2004 - that was a Republican-led legislature....

In 2009, that percentage has dropped to 1-1.5%

reply to post by shrike071


Everybody knows that Team Obama is in bed with the
trial lawyers. That is why it's off the table.
Instead, we have this 2,000 page Pelosi experiment
that looks like it was written by a Canadian!

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Written by a Canadian!
So Canada is on the Big Republican Pinko list now?
Is there ANY country that isn't?
Why are you enthusiastic about Insurance companies, The Health lobby, Big Pharma etc?
Isn't the primary purpose of Government TO, OH, I DON'T KNOW, SERVE IT'S CITIZENS?
Or is it to serve big business, corporations and make the rich richer?
By Golly eh, how about an answer?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


They don't know what a living will or hospice is.

Hospice is a branch of our hospital and totally involved with end of life patients and families. My sister (she is one of two administrators of hospice) is notified by the hospital/doctors of any patient facing a terminal illness. A hospice nurse and a volunteer are immediately scheduled to see the patient, usually while they are still in the hospital or as soon as they are home again. They inform the patient/family about living wills and explain the service the hospice offers them FREE OF CHARGE. I think they even have a deal with some of the local lawyers to assist with all the legal needs of a patient/family for a reduced rate. Not absolutely sure about this, but believe this is included in the hospice service from things my sister has said.
A small portion of the hospital budget goes toward hospice, but the bulk of hospice is supported by donation and their resale shop.

The patients/family are never charged for hospice service, as it should be.
It is unfortunate that there are places were patients/families facing terminal illness are not automatically, without having to even ask, seen and cared for by hospice if desired.

reply to post by OldDragger


All health systems have problems.
Apparently, Canada has a few problems with their wonderful
free health care system. - Medical Tourism -
Instead of dying in Canada, they fly to Texas for surgery.
Thank God for the USA!

Oh Goodie, the Reps are bringing back death panel discussions...


guess that drop to 20% of the USA identified as a republican was too high...gotta get out those desperate moderate republicans once and for all and drop further down to like...10% maybe.


Keep it up guys...but really, the only people that believe this are the seriously information disadvantaged...so why not simply say Obama will send death squads to your home...almost the same amount of people will believe it...the "core" republicans.

Last note...I welcome the moderate sane element of what was once the Republican party to come on over to the independents. Send a message to the leader(less) of the republicans as they watch their numbers plummet more and more from lies and purposeful misrepresentation leading the most dedicated sheep into a form of near retardation.

I want to be the guy sitting on that death panel. PLEASE let me be the guy to preside over the death panels.

Death for you, death for you, death, for you, your cool, you can live, death for you, death for you, death for you, (Wait! I'm only 25 and have a cold!) DOUBLE DEATH FOR YOU!

reply to post by whatukno

You may be on to sumting dere.

Yah good. Let me play. I deem all blatant inbred right wingeded nazi wanta bees to be euthenized at the same rate as all other left leaning warm fuzzy feeling tree hugging hippies. lets see how many are left standing. There will be your answer. In the end the trees will win.



All in good fun.

[edit on 10/30/2009 by Hal9000]

reply to post by nixie_nox

You obviously have never dealth with senior family members, or someone with a terminal illness. And your statement is highly immature. As someone who has personally seen several people to the end of life, for a while, you know your gonna die. In fact, we had to watch them be kept alive because heaven forbid someone is allowed to die when they are ready. And they are crying that they want to go, but your not allowed to by law.

I don't have a clue as to what you are saying about my "statement", since you didn't paste the statement you referred to.
However, I had to make the decision for both of my parents, when it was obvious that neither one had any hope of recovering. One only had brain stem activity, and the other was suffering and asked for God to end the pain, so please don't make statement about someone you don't know. Those two decisions were over 20 years apart, so I have lived with those events ever since. It was not easy. However, the decisions were made by family, with consultation from our doctors. The government was not involved, and nowhere did financial matters come into consideration. If I knew that we could buy one pain-free day with either parent, I would have spent every penny I had for that extra day, but there were no such days left.
Life is PRICELESS. and the government should not place a price tag on how much a life is worth, based life expectancies at a given age. That is EXACTLY what the bill says it will do.
Money is nothing but a mankind-created artifact, whereas life, I believe is a miracle. You cannot put a price on that miracle. If we fail to recognize that, then we aren't really human, we are mindless robots.

I've noticed that several posters keep concentrating on the living will issue. First of all, most of us, including myself, have no problem with living wills. We have no problem with people advising others about living wills. I have stated that in several of my posts on this thread. It is the issue of denying care to people, based upon their age, and the formula that divides a medical procedures cost by expected number of future years at the patients age, to come up with a go/no go on that procedure that can be viewed as a death sentence. If someone needs an expensive heart operation, and that formula results in a number that is too large, they will be denied it, EVEN IF that procedure will allow them to live a pain-free relatively normal life. That is draconian, and that is what I object to.
Please stop concentrating on the living will issue- it is a straw man.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Life is PRICELESS. and the government should not place a price tag on how much a life is worth, based life expectancies at a given age. That is EXACTLY what the bill says it will do.
Money is nothing but a mankind-created artifact, whereas life, I believe is a miracle. You cannot put a price on that miracle. If we fail to recognize that, then we aren't really human, we are mindless robots.


And that's EXACTLY what insurance companies do! Put a price, dollars and cents on life. PLUS throw in a nice profit! Jeeezuz!
And you schmucks worry about the "government? Amazing!
Explain Prof, why a family should have to go broke, litteraly bankrupt to care for a family member. Ah yes.....the miracle of PROFIT!
Give me an f'n break!

reply to post by nixie_nox


I know how you feel, because my grandfather took a long time before he passed away, he spend months, you know it gets to the point that the hospital can not do anything else and they just release the patient to the family for closure in the last days, but my grandfather had a strong will and he was lucid until the day he died, he even recollected what was going on just the days and minutes before his death, he knew that something was coming for him, but it was just taking too long.

It is sad to see a love one going through the pains of accepting that is time to go that medicine has nothing left to give and that all options are exhausted.

And still the person doesn't seem like they want to give up.

My grandfather spend several months at home, he would not be alone, all members took turn sitting with him beside his bed every day and night, because he just didn't want to be alone, one day the entire family got together pray for him and finally told him that is was OK to let go and that same day he passed away.

Interesting but experiences like this makes you think about how different people react to death.

In my grandfather case he just could not let go, and it was nothing that the doctors could do for him but keep him as comfortable as possible while spending his last days at home that turned into a couple of months.

thanks for sharing your experience.

reply to post by OldDragger

And that's EXACTLY what insurance companies do! Put a price, dollars and cents on life. PLUS throw in a nice profit! Jeeezuz! And you schmucks worry about the "government? Amazing! Explain Prof, why a family should have to go broke, litteraly bankrupt to care for a family member. Ah yes.....the miracle of PROFIT! Give me an f'n break!

You know, perhaps if you acted civilly, rather than using profanity, someone might actually listen to you.
I will answer your question, though, for the benefit of others who may want to hear my answer.
Some medical procedures are extremely expensive, because of the cost of the technology used, the skills required, and the scarcity of some of the items. Now please explain to me who you think SHOULD pay for such expenses, if not for the family. Do you think the GOVERNMENT should pay for it? If you do, then you are saying WE should pay for it.
As to profits, if you work for a living, I assume you are making a PROFIT. Do you expect people to work for free? If so, you can come and cook our meals, mow our lawn, and maintain our house for it.
Your "argument" makes no sense whatsoever. Health companies make an average of 2.5% profit. They consist of ordinary people who go to work, and feed their families. Let me do the math for you- 2.5% of a $20,000.00 operation comes to exactly $500. If you cannot afford the $20,000, then you probably can't afford the $19,500 without the profit, so stop using profit and the insurance companies as whipping boys.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
You don't have a family?
How were you born?

Try working in a nursing home sometimes. Full of people abandoned by families who don't want to care for them anymore.

How are people born? Well many people who need end of life have lost their parents a long time ago.


I

reply to post by Eurisko2012


How can something be "back in" when it was never "in" to begin with?

Same old propaganda. It's so very, very tired.

Originally posted by angeldoll
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

How can something be "back in" when it was never "in" to begin with?

Same old propaganda. It's so very, very tired.

It was in.
How could they take it out in the Senate if it wasn't there?
Same old denial. It's so very, very sad.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

OH MY GOD! Voluntary counseling regarding end of life decisions!
Obama is a monster!

Wait, i typed that wrong.
Let's see...
Palin is an idiot! FOX lies for a living!
There that's what I meant.

We can make our own decisions WITHOUT the government
sticking their nose in our hospital rooms.
This is creepy!

You cannot rationally interpret what is meant by "voluntary counseling regarding end of life decisions". So I am guessing counseling wouldn't help anyway.

You people who don't want healthcare reform are getting this all wrong. Instead of opposing voluntary counseling you should be demanding mandatory end of life counseling for all patients including the unborn. Why the unborn? How can an abortion proceed if the unborn breathless patient hasn't been counseled? . You are "Pro-Life" aren't you???