Police look into gunshot at Dobbs' home

For whatever it is worth, I found this:



www.alipac.us...

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

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As always great post professor and thanks. The seeds of chaos have in my humble opinion been deliberately and skillfuly sewn within our own borders to weaken and divide us at this critical juncture in history and our government.

Lou Dobbs is one of the few voices of pragmatism and sanity out there in my opinion.

I live within the area and we have not heard much about this at all. However, hunting season has begun and the bullets fly constantly. There are many hunting grounds located all over the area and this can easily be a case of a wayward shot. We had a horse shot many years ago from the same "oops, we missed the deer" kind of bullet.

I would be quite surprised to find it was a direct "threat". The area is mixed with conservatives and some democrats -- nothing that screams he's being targeted.

We also don't have local police forces in many of these towns, and rely solely on the state police. Therefore, the odds that it was a local police shooting some homeless guy is ridiculous. Homelessness is not an issue in this particular area either.

Picture a countryside with acre-sized lots, plenty of cows and horses, and you'll get a better picture of the town.

Actually it's kinda the "like attracts like" principle in action here. All of those you mentioned are HUGE hate mongers... it's no wonder they are attracting hate into their life.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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But friend Hunka the story isn't about those people. The story is about Lou Dobbs who is neither partisan or a hate mongerer.

He is simply someone who favors common sense enforcement of existing laws and not exporting our jobs and industries overseas at the expense of the American people to bolster corporate bottom lines and share holder returns.

If you call that hate mongering then we are in trouble.

In fact we are in trouble because most people can't in fact differentiate any more what are singular and sound arguments and contentions but instead insist everything go into a left/right camp to either praise or attack.

You my friend truly are a reckless adventurer playing into the hands of the existing order-Chairman Mao!

reply to post by lpowell0627

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Dobbs stated that he has gotten countless death threats:


www.examiner.com...

A stray bullet, alone, might not be as worrisome, but the the above, it is a real concern. If it happened to you, after countless death threats, wouldn't you be more concerned?

That depends on who you talk to. Hate is in the eye of the beholder as much as beauty is... it's subjective...



Again with the subjective terms... "Common sense" is also in the eye of the beholder.



YES! Now this is something that is not subjective... whether you agree with Lou or not... he is definitely against exporting of American Jobs and even more so when the goal is simply profit.

In this way you might say he isn't a capitalist... but an American Capitalist.



When I watch Lou, I often get furious with his inability understand simple concepts sometimes. I agree he has good intentions.. and I'm sure he sleeps well at night...

But even the best intentioned can be a hate monger and not even realize it.



Well that's what happens when you look outside of yourself for answers...

That's the opiate of the masses right there...



hah! Not at all... I merely think for myself... I've noticed that many have issues with that... perhaps my autotheistic beliefs enrage others as well..

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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No Hunka what you most often do is take any subject or topic to turn it into a platform for promoting a left/right divide.

Perhaps you are so intently focused on your politics to not notice how you do that.

Your initial response to this thread had nothing to do with Dobb's own plight as being the victim of a potential crime or negligence but to rather instead comment on another posters desire to make everything about a left/right divide.

I lived in Los Angeles for a decade and I live in Miami where I have been well over a decade, believe me I am well aware of the reasons that compell illegal immigrants to flee homelands lacking economic opportunities or rife with violence and absent adequate security.

Yet as a manager of a business Hunka, as an owner of a business unless this was all gained through nepotism, then you should be well aware of the need for 'planned' growth as opposed to chaotic growth.

When your infrastructure is constantly being taxed of it's resources and capabilities with surging numbers of people who are not factored into the equation in planning for that infrastructure you have an infrastructure problem.

Dobbs pragmatically recognizes government's primary obligation to secure the welfare, civil services, and security and employment opportunities for actual legal citizens.

He realizes how a chaotic, un-regulated, poorly monitored constant influx of substantial numbers of illegal citizens makes it impossible for the government to provide an infrastructure that functions to it's optimum as it should.

The reality is criminal gangs of illegal immigrants pushing narcotics do degrade security. The reality is illegal immigrants desperate for work and willing to work for less do lower wages and at the same time deprive actual citizens of the opportunity to work in those positions. He recognizes that both are violations of the law. He believes it's governments obligation to maintain and uphold the law and sees it falling short. He understands that the unregulated, unplanned influx of these unlawful immigrants creates added health costs passed onto publcly funded health trusts, and further taxes and crowds our school systems and floods them with people that slow down the pace in which the cirriculum can be taught as they struggle with the language barrier and different standards from their own countries that don't always mean they are educated to an age appropriate level at the time they enter our public school system.

He understands it is literally tearing the nation apart at it's seems from within and without.

If you actually know history Hunka this is exactly what happened that led to the destruction of the Roman Empire as so much pressure was put on it externally not by people who wanted to conquer it but to be allowed to immigrate into it to enjoy it's higher standard of living and quality of life.

Charity is all fine and dandy Hunka and that's why we have ways for people to immigrate here in a planned manner, that allows the infrastructure to be planned to deal with it.

Do you care about any of these things Hunka or simply how you can turn these issues into a left/right divide.

Dobbs is a brilliant man and an economist who simply recognizes failed and destructive thinking for what it is, no matter how well intentioned or charitable those thoughts might be, if they are destructive and counter productive they are destructive and counter productive.

I was born in 1964 Hunka and I have watched every standard of life from the living wage, to personal freedoms, to education, to media, to law enforcement degrade and errode steadily and progressively during that entire time.

What should we do Hunka ride it to the rock bottom ignoring our own principals and laws in favor of chaos for all instead of a quality of life for those who respect the system and the laws?

Regardless you do have a tendency and propensity to sieze on almost every issue to promote left/right politics, to denounce the right, and defend the left.

Whether it's the rape of a child, or immigration, or someone's home shot at, you end up highlighting those divisions and promoting those divisions and you have done it on this thread and it's plain to see.

Look in the mirror friend, should you dare.



[edit on 30/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

That has to be one of the single most retarded statments i've ever heard. If we don't wish to allow our country to be crowded with individuals who plain and simple broke our laws, and come here free to break many more laws without any way of knowing who they are, as well as leach off of government assistance meant for citizens of this country (it's nearly impossible to recieve any state assistance here in AZ, unless youre mexican), then we are "hate mongers" in your eyes? Are you just so completely bought and paid for by the "left", that you don't even care if what you're saying is ridiculous? Lou Dobbs is no hate monger, regardless of whether you agree with him. Saying that destroys the credibility of your argument, completely.

You mean like you constantly paint a picture of how everyone is oppressed by "the man"?



Ahh... did you happen to notice that my initial post on this thread was not a reply to the OP at all but a reply to SOS37 who himself made it a left/right divide issue?

Probably not... so now I am guilty of perpetuating left/right divide issues when I simply reply to someone who already brought that up?

Your full of it.

which means everything else you said doesn't even need to be read.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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You are hysterical my friend, you admitt my whole point that the first thing you center in on in the thread is how to exploit a left right divide, and claim you only did that because someone else did!

Then make it all about non-issues, so you don't have to debate anything of substance that you have no answer for!

Just to try to make it look like you have an answer for what you can't come up with an answer.

Then try to make it look like it's all our great loss.

I figured it was nepotism!

The fact of the matter is Hunka the thread really is about Lou Dobbs.

Ever heard of him friend? His house got shot at.

Not anyone elses on your hit list.



[edit on 30/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Yep.. his house got shot at...


Is this a surprise?

Someone shot at Lou Dobb's house? That is very interesting. He has been a vocal critic of President Obama's initiatives and other controversial legislation. Is it politically motivated? I hope not, because this partisan BS is really going over board then. When violence is entered into politics it can get very messy. People get hurt or killed as result, and history is a prime example of that.

So, hopefully, it was some idiot who accidentally discharged his weapon while cleaning it in his open garage. However, it could be the latter of what I mentioned, and that is what scares me. Politics and violence don't mix and should never be allowed by society. Hopefully, the authorities find out what happened. Thank goodness no one was hurt. Lou, keep asking those hard questions don't let them get you down. We need more journalists with stones willing to ask the hard questions, and especially, during this dark period in US history and World affairs.





[edit on 30-10-2009 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Jakes51

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Excellent post my friend Jake, I have no idea why some people have to promote a left/right divide and make the political process so demeaning and contentious!

The people are truly being pitted against one another and both sides of the left/right divide are equally to blame.

Each sees it as the other person's fault and what's worse is rarely does either side speak to issues of substance, and on the rare event they do the opposing side never bothers to even listen or hear it let alone considering it before denouncing not what was said that they didn't hear but simply the person saying it.

We are in big trouble thanks to such thinking. This is where it leads to ultimately when people won't stop to listen and consider and ponder the validity of what people are saying.

Desperate attempts to convince people by other means or to eliminate them.

No Hunka it's called a crime and not a surprise. Your vague statement could be construed as an endorsement of such violent behavior my friend.

People truly should consider their words more carefully lest someone get the wrong idea about them and what they are saying.

Learn to respond friend Hunka not react.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Yes, you are correct about the political divide. It is a very corrosive mindset to have when tackling issues and finding compromises when needed. There are some pretty hard-headed left and right followers. Their affiliation in most cases causes them to stand by a political initiative or legislative proposal without even looking at it from outside and seeing it with the eyes of an objective thinker.

The division and partisanship is destroying America, and instead of tackling the issues head-on in uniformity and resolve, the problem remains on the back burner as the two sides bicker and fight among themselves. Then you have one side fanning the flame of the other, and vice-versa, as the country crumbles around them. Why would they continue on this course, unless there is some kind of sadistic pleasure to be gained from this destructive behavior?

Now, don't get me wrong, party politics is a useful tool in a democracy, however, no party follower should be blinded by loyalty at the expense of common logic of a particular party view, legislative proposal, or policy. In other words, at least weigh the good and bad on a certain issues, and make an independent decision on issues, regardless of walking the party line, and that goes for voters and politicians alike. To me me, party loyalty, are like the chains to free-spirited thought, compromise, and progress with in the political sphere in America at present. The system has stagnated and does more harm than good. I'll end with a visionary from the past, President George Washington, in his farewell address from 1796 describing the ills of political parties.



www.earlyamerica.com...

reply to post by Jakes51

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I have a simple answer for you Jakes51 in regard to the left/right divide and those who play the blame/hate game with it.

They are people who do not feel empowered in a fashion or a sense that allows them to believe that they can directly contribute individually to a solution.

They believe that the political system of a party is empowered to acheive for them that which they believe they have no power to effect on their own.

They have no faith in their own ability to effect a change or contribute to a change beyond endorsing a collective they imagine has the power that they imagine they themselves do not have.

They don't believe in themselves or their own power but they believe in the collective and it's power.

They believe if their collective does not effect the change that they hoped or reach the goals that they felt the collective had and was capable of attaining as a collective and by extension for them as a member then it was the other collective the kept that from happening.

They do not see their own shortcommings to the point that they want to change them and empower themselves so they instead seek to empower a collective thinking it a better choice and a way for them to do something that they can quantify as something.

They do not see their collectives shortcommings though either or how it might be defeating itself through poor or dishonest leadership.

So they focus on the other collective as being the enemy of their collective.
And blame the failures of their own collective on the other collective.

They still don't believe they themselves have the power to change anything themselves. They do though believe they have the power to weaken the other collective through attacking or maligning it and it's individual members which is something they do feel capable of and empowered to do as a way of defeating the other collective through weakening it, because they imagine the only thing that is keeping their collective from attaining it's goals is the power of the other collective.

Simply put people feel powerless to do real positive things, so instead they focus on the real negative things they feel they are empowered and capable of doing.

Attacking the other little guy who feels equally helpless who belongs to the other collective who imagines it's the opposite collective that is keeping their collective from succeeding.

The little guys feel safe confronting and attacking the other little guys because they have convinced themselves that they can not be a big dog or run with the big dogs or accomplish what the big dogs do.

To them it becomes a sport like Basketball or Football, my team against your team!

Me against you!

They are stuck on stupid Jake. When you are stuck on stupid, and everyone is stuck on stupid you end up with a great big stupid mess. That's exactly what we have in this country a great big stupid mess.

Want to know whose fault that is as far as I am concerned Jake?

MY FAULT.

It's nobody's fault but mine!

Come the day everyone can think like that. We won't be stuck on stupid.

We will be stuck on trying to learn on how not to be stupid.

Right now though we are stuck on how to out stupid the other guy!

Heck of a world, and you know the amazing thing is I really consider every one my friend regardless of what collective they are in, or what their idealogy is or even if they hate me for mine.

People are stuck on stupid Jake. Don't ask me why. I seem to be stuck right there along with them!

Thanks for posting friend.




[edit on 30/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Or simply a disregard for a situation when a crime that happens every day around here happens to occur to a celeb...

Is it an endorsement.. no...

Is it any different than what many deal with on a daily basis... not at all...

Learn to stop assuming proto... your ass is showing.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

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So because the people are more prone to violence in some areas, violence should be accepted in other areas where they are not or less prone to it?

We should strive at all times towards the lowest common denominator as the standard and embrace it and the best way to do that is to neglect trying to embrace the highest possible common denominator in areas that put emphasis on trying to achieve the highest possible common denominator to make those who are seekign the lowest common denominator feel better about their choice of focus.

We should not assume nor suggest that people living in violent prone regions do so because they embrace violence prone thinking, we should instead believe that they are prone to violence because some people try and mostly succeed living in absence of it.

We should not try to stop or become concerned about violence in areas where violence is uncommon because of how people in that region feel and behave to instead focus on accepting a more violent prone standard indicative of regions where violence is common place and expected because of the attitudes and perspectives and skill sets of the people who inhabit that region?

Everyone who is not responsible is in fact for everyone who is responsible and the people who are responsible are not responsible?

Brilliant Hunka simply brilliant.

Your argument...some people deserve to suffer because they typically don't!

I can just feel the love!

Anyone know where Dick Cheney is?