Author of Pledge of Allegiance was a Liberal Socialist

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posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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I'm interested in what the general thought about this is here on ATS.

Seems to be me the people who are staunch supporters of the Pledge of Allegiance are also Staunch Anti-Socialists...

But did you ever stop to think who wrote the Pledge?



Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'


You can read more here




posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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This has always been quite apparent to me. The very first line "I pledge allegiance, to the flag" is as socialistic a phrase as you can get. Think about it. We use this to indoctrinate children to give themselves to the country, without asking questions, and regardless of the situation.

It doesnt get any more socialistic than giving yourself up to something, unconditionally.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Most "supporters of the pledge" actually only support the two words "under god" written into it in 1954. You can tell them all the facts you've got all day long, and they'll still believe this nation was founded in the late 1940's by Joe mcCarthy and Beaver Cleaver.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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If a person gets a kick out of reciting some collective Borg chant by all means that person should recite. If another person would rather not chant nobody should force him.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Socialism and indoctrination have nothing to do with each other. Communism and socialism are two different things as well. With all the anti-Obama talk being slung around these terms as well as the term agenda are being overused and misused almost everywhere. Socialism is not totalitarianism either. Socialism is only people looking out for each other. There are many things seen as negative about Soviet Socialism because people incorrectly link it to the anticapitalistic communism of the USSR. and by gawd if it isn't my American Capitalistic way then it's wrong.

Kinda reminds me of the radical religious folks I read around here.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
This has always been quite apparent to me. The very first line "I pledge allegiance, to the flag" is as socialistic a phrase as you can get.

...

It doesnt get any more socialistic than giving yourself up to something, unconditionally.



You don't know what Socialism is, do you...



Its starting to not even be funny any more, reading some of the comments on this site. I always thought ATS was a bastion for expressive thought and intelligent discussion, but these days it seems like its just another outlet for the mass ignorance that plagues our country.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by damwel
Socialism and indoctrination have nothing to do with each other. Communism and socialism are two different things as well. With all the anti-Obama talk being slung around these terms as well as the term agenda are being overused and misused almost everywhere. Socialism is not totalitarianism either. Socialism is only people looking out for each other. There are many things seen as negative about Soviet Socialism because people incorrectly link it to the anticapitalistic communism of the USSR. and by gawd if it isn't my American Capitalistic way then it's wrong.

Kinda reminds me of the radical religious folks I read around here.


Socialism and indoctrination are not even the same type of thing. One is a form of government, one is a psychological manipulation tool.
People absolutely CAN be indoctrinated TO BE socialist, however.

Socialism is not just peeople looking out for each other. It is a form of government, and therefore has a lot more to it. Dont oversimplify.

Also, every president and regime has an agenda. They have to. So therefore, again, it is not wrong to throw that word out there.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
This has always been quite apparent to me. The very first line "I pledge allegiance, to the flag" is as socialistic a phrase as you can get.

...

It doesnt get any more socialistic than giving yourself up to something, unconditionally.



You don't know what Socialism is, do you...



Its starting to not even be funny any more, reading some of the comments on this site. I always thought ATS was a bastion for expressive thought and intelligent discussion, but these days it seems like its just another outlet for the mass ignorance that plagues our country.


Yes I know what socialism is, but honestly I dont think you do.

You are right though that the pledge is closer to nationalism than socialism. However, the two go hand in hand.

Read some history.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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The problem with labels like "socialism" is that they tend to take you away from what a person is. Most of us don't even know what "socialism" is, nor how it differs from communism.

Totalitarianism has nothing to do with political and economical beliefs. Most of the totalitarian governments that have existed have *NOT* been either socialist or communist. Nazi Germany was totalitarian. So was Mussolini's Italy. So were most monarchies throughout history. None of these was socialist or communist.

Many countries in Europe are "socialist". None of them, to my knowledge, is a totalitarian regime. Most have a higher standard of living than the US, better medical care, less crime, and overall happier people.

Whatever the politics of Bellamy, his Pledge is nothing but an assertion of loyalty to the US. It's got nothing to do with him trying to impose any totalitarian regime on the US. At worst, it expresses the concept of "equality", which is somewhat of a socialist concept. It's also found in our Declaration of Independence. I don't know... maybe Thomas Jefferson was a socialst.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


So pretty much you're agreeing with him. it really doesn't look like you have the faintest clue what socialism is, other than it's something the TeeVee tells you is bad.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Well people completely disregard the intention and intent of the founding fathers and framers of the Constitution. So why should this matter? Start talking about how important this is, then start talking about how far we have all strayed from the Constitution, and how warped people have made the intent of the Founding Fathers of the US.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


So pretty much you're agreeing with him. it really doesn't look like you have the faintest clue what socialism is, other than it's something the TeeVee tells you is bad.


Thats quite the leap. But apparently after reading one post, you know all about me.

As I said, you all are right, it is more nationalism than socialism. Do I need to keep repeating that?

But, again, read some history, see how those two go hand in hand.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Even more alarming is that the author of the Pledge was a Christian Socialist...


Yet most American Christians today are anti-socialist...

What gives?

What changed?



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