The Ancients Series | Part I: Sumerians, page 8

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reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 09:49 AM by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No? Care to elaborate?

Unless you're referring to 'the will of Allah' in some divine dictatorial form?

Yes.... that is what i was refering to.... 'the will of Allah' 'All shall obey' isn't that what Enlil wanted?

Maybe not 'Allah' back then but Enlil still wanted all to obey him as it says.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 09:55 AM by serbsta

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No? Care to elaborate?

Unless you're referring to 'the will of Allah' in some divine dictatorial form?

Yes.... that is what i was refering to.... 'the will of Allah' 'All shall obey' isn't that what Enlil wanted?

Maybe not 'Allah' back then but Enlil still wanted all to obey him as it says.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

Hmm... yeah you're right. They both have the kind of 'I am the boss' attitude, to put it in layman's. I know little about the Koran though as i haven't had time to research it properly yet.

But, like the OT where we clearly have a polytheistic account of disputes between Gods, is there such similarities within the Koran? If so then what you're saying holds much more water, otherwise Allah saying 'all shall obey' is just exemplifying his egotism rather than a paranoia, which is the result of the many God's within the OT.

Cheers.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 09:56 AM by menguard

Originally posted by menguard
Did they use Limestone as did the egyptions with the sphinx and other monuments?

Did they use this on their buildings just curious?

It is said that areas with a lot of Limestone Paranormal activity tends to be higher.

Along with magnetite and Quartz.

Areas that are charged with a higher conductivity, I am thinking is probably less painfull for these types of being to be in. The vibrations on Earth aren't always that appealing to otherworldy types just certain locations.

Just like Native Americans tend to put their reservations on powerspots. Or at least something that I have noticed. It's probably a Shaman thing.

I bet ya those Summerians worked with principles of Energy quite a bit, and they would feel for the areas with their bodies for high energy points or points of balance. To suspend the gravitational field I would look for an area with a higher electromagnetic grid.

When trying to bring something that is outside in, you would want to make the area as appealing as possible.

Just like drawing in energy in certain points.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by menguard]

Also I would like to point out that the Movie Fourth Kind touched on people speaking Summerian, well that would be interesting that to find maybe those from that civilisation may have been aboard some ships. Also the name Billy Meire comes to mind.

The PleidIAin or Plejaren culture may have tied into the Summerian culture quite a bit.

Billy Meire was in actuality contacted by people from an older civilisation.

Also I am sure E.t. would have human trophys of different genetic types from different civilisations just in case a certain genetic code is needed to re-seed life.

When an alien race comes in to our world and they speak their words just hearing their words wakes up that genetic coding that is in our Earthseed code.

I would say the Ancient One that spoke to me was a Universal language in my own bodies coding., or could it be I awoke to the ancient words of mankind in my sleep and awoken the older part of the brain, genetic coding .

[edit on 31-10-2009 by menguard]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:04 AM by Ogre14t

reply to post by AwakeinNM

Not wanting to cause an argument here, but correcting someones grammar while misplacing the word dumb is .........

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 12:05 PM by one4all

Menguard,life is the same all over the universe,creatures evolve along similar lines with diverse variations depending on environment.

We wouldnt need to re-seed with different human DNA because we would either be upgrading a lesser evolutionary creature or being upgraded by a more evolved creature,species being I believe irrelevant,but Specific dna evolution being relevant.

We were already evolving naturally here on earth as primates when we were upgraded,BUT AS TO WHICH INDIVIDUAL SPECIES WOULD HAVE BECOME TECHNICAL OR ADVANCED ALL BETS WERE OFF PRIOR BECAUSE NO ONE CAN SAY WHICH SPECIES WOULD HAVE BEEN HERE EVOLVING IN SAY FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS,OR A MILLION YEARS,what I am saying is that I believe that our species was chosen for its physical characteristics more than its DNA compatability,this was a functional choice.They could have picked dolphins or penguins if they wanted or there could be certain threshholds that the recipient species must have passed in an evolutionary sense,dolphins might make it.

There is life all over the universe and a lot of it is seeded on planets that are terraformed by humans.There are planets that hold life that is primate like we were.We already know enough to enhance their species and they could skip millions of years of evolution and we could teach them to work for us and NEVER FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE "WE MADE THEM".We use every other species in every other way,even consuming them as food.

It isnt that hard to extrapolate how this planet was intentionally terraformed,but who would listen,the moon was parked where it is to enable our planet to have weather and hold an atmosphere,when we all hear about it we will want to do it ourselves,we have been held back but that is our destiny,to pass life around the universe and to use its vast resources,we have the right,we just need to claim it.

Thats the problem with unplanned species like us ,we werent supposed to multiply into six billion like we have,we need to learn faster and get off this rock.

Its not like we havent had help getting in trouble,our governments lied to us and we have been bad kids,hope daddy only spanks the kids that were bad when he gets home,and not everyone involved,like my dad used to.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 02:09 PM by DerbyCityLights

reply to post by one4all

If by "parked" you mean the earth was struck by a mass roughly the size of mars in it's early life and the debris that spewed into space clumped together to form the moon then yes, it was parked there.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by DerbyCityLights]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 06:59 PM by serbsta

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

enki is called the "great dragon," in the text ENKI AND THE WORLD ORDER (which you can see at sumerian texts link).

i thought, does this mean they already had a "dragon" myth at the time or does this mean "dragon" doesn't necessarily mean what we think it means.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by undo]

Just to add on to what i said about the 'drakon' before. For the Japanese it is a symbol of procreation aswell, i.e life. It's interesting to note that i think, we now have corroborating entities who represent similar things, yet are continents apart.

I really don't know where to go from here with this though. Thoughts?

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 10:18 PM by undo

reply to post by serbsta

i'm finding various meanings for it but the oldest word for it that i can find so far is usumgal, which means dragon or serpent.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by undo]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 10:51 PM by rjmelter

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by undo

Enlil, his father? What? I thought Enlil and Enki were brothers?

Then, further down, Enlil is speaking and he refers to Enki as both his son and father:

My son, king Enki, has built up the temple!

the shrine of the abzu, the good destiny of Enki, befitting the elaborate divine powers; the temple of Eridug, built with silver: for all this, father Enki be praised!

Cheers.

that sounds like the trinity to me.

I think a lot of humanities past is encoded with losses of translation but yet still there if it can be decoded. Happy Hunting!

edit to add:

After reading a lot of the sumerian texts... I think a lot of the bible was written copying the texts and trying to twist it for their own political gains.

I mean isnt that pretty much the summary of our human history? Hear Truth, Twist it, Lie- Lies become truth and the truth becomes a lie... then knowledge occurs and truth is rediscovered?!

[edit on 31-10-2009 by rjmelter]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:00 PM by undo

hmm, appears enlil is also referred to as great dragon. now considering the book of revelation talks about the great dragon in a derogatory way, we have to assume there's more to the story. why else would enlil allow himself to be called a dragon in his own text in which the dragon is the bad guy?
this video contains an explanation of the 2012 phenomena, and how it relates to the precession of the equinoxes and the biblical "great red dragon", mentioned in revelation 12
EXCERPTED

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

YouTube Link

that isn't to suggest that the great dragon or great dragons, were solely men or solely reptilians or solely a constellation, but the entire set of symbols appear to interconnect

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:09 PM by rjmelter

reply to post by undo

Not to get into all of that dragon and christian idealogy but I used to be very religous and had the dragon talk with some folks...

Most people feel that the dragon actually represents heads of states, or heads of continents instead of a physical being. The physical being is a representation of the whole as best said.

That said, this was also a dream, as we all know, dreams have to be interpreted and disected because everything is symbolic and has seperate meanings.

ANYWAYS so basically what I'm thinking is that the number of heads and crowns represent the number of those appointed under/by this "Dragon" Character, they represent a kingdom under him perhaps?!

I know that detracts from yall's ideas but I figured I'd mention it and maybe something can be revealed from it.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:18 PM by serbsta

reply to post by rjmelter

Yes, you are correct. Myths have been used and re-used, told and re-told for millenia.

reply to post by undo

Holy crap! I can't believe i forgot that!

I while ago, i would say about a year or two, when i first started reading about the Sumerians and their mythology i came across references to Enlil as being a great serpent, a great dragon. Can't believe i completely stored that away. Now that makes it interesting.

Don't forget though, Enlil was the God of the skies. Further, it is also said that Enlil could control the winds and guide them in any direction. *hint hint*

Plus, i found this in the Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature that you linked earlier. In 'Enlil in the E-kur (Enlil A)', i found this:

Enlil , faithful shepherd of the teeming multitudes, herdsman, leader of all living creatures, has manifested his rank of great prince, adorning himself with (1 ms. has instead:putting on) the holy crown. As the Wind of the Mountain (?) occupied the dais, he spanned the sky as the rainbow. Like a floating cloud, he moved alone (?).

He alone is the prince of heaven, the dragon of the earth. The lofty god of the Anuna himself determines the fates. No god can look upon him. His great minister and commander (1 ms. has instead: chief barber) Nuska learns his commands and his intentions from him, consults with him and then executes his far-reaching instructions on his behalf. He prays to him with holy prayers (?) and divine powers (?).

Cheers.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:29 PM by undo

reply to post by rjmelter

yes i know about the heads of the beast system mentioned later on, what i'm trying to figure out is the etymology of the word and how it relates to the sumerian, akkadian and babylonian texts in which the ancient gods are called "Great dragons"

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:40 PM by undo

reply to post by serbsta

note how in this picture posted on one of the previous pages of the thread by another poster suggests erishkagal is the serpent

but the serpent is the dragon.
and that leads us to the word seraph:
8314 saraph saw-rawf' from 8313; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color):--fiery (serpent), seraph.
www.eliyah.com...
which is plural seraphim
A seraph (Heb. שׂרף, pl. שׂרפים Seraphim, lat. seraph[us], pl. seraphi[m]) is one of a class of celestial beings mentioned once in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh or Old Testament), in Isaiah. Later Jewish imagery perceived them as having human form, and in that way they passed into the ranks of Christian angels. In the Christian angelic hierarchy, seraphim represent the highest rank of angels.

so we have glowing/brazen serpent/dragon beings who are celestial beings, who are high ranking angels and who appear to correspond to the subject we are discussing

Isaiah (6:1–3) records the prophet's vision of the Seraphim: "... I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the Hekhal (sanctuary). Above Him stood the Seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew."

Although this is the sole use of the word "seraphim" to describe celestial beings in the canonic Hebrew Bible, seraphim appear more than once in the Book of Enoch[1] where they are designated as drakones (δράκονες "serpents"), and are mentioned, in conjunction with the cherubim, as the heavenly creatures standing nearest to the throne of God.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 31-10-2009 by undo]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:43 PM by rjmelter

reply to post by undo

oh, I have this Dragon Website saved in my favorites, maybe it will be of interest? But it already sounds like your well informed. You should go study the tablets and sumerian language yourself to learn more

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:53 PM by undo

reply to post by rjmelter

oh the section on the KUR is extremely interesting. he set up a mountain of stone to hold back the primeval flood waters, after he had destroyed the original. oh oh, that is very interesting. (different research topic on the subject of the abzu and the gate of the gods). in short, sounds as if he opened up enlil's abzu (versus enki's abzu), which is the bottomless pit and abyss of revelation. above these sites, pyramids and ziggurats were built. an example is enki burying abzu beneath his temple in the enuma elish, so the great worm (hole) tiamat, connected to kingu on the moon instead (different abzu, different planet). oh my, i must've missed this one.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 12:07 AM by serbsta

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

but the serpent is the dragon.
and that leads us to the word seraph:
8314 saraph saw-rawf' from 8313; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color):--fiery (serpent), seraph.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by undo]

Wow, now if that is by far the most interesting thing in this thread so far, in my opinion. I love learning new stuff like this. So we have seraphim, divine beings which are STILL RECOGNIZED as such by today's churches oddly enough.

We talked about nachash before didn't we?

It [Seraph(im)] is often used alongside, or interchangeably with "nachash," (heb. "נחש") a more common and generic term for serpents (e.g. Numbers 21:6-7.)

It's not only the general term for serpents, but a term for gaining knowledge, for 'finding out'.

You are onto something though. Here check this:

Seraphs were traditionally regarded as burning or flaming angels, though the word seems to have some etymological sense of "flying," perhaps from confusion with the root of Ar. sharafa "be lofty." Some scholars identify it with a word found in other passages interpreted as "fiery flying serpent."

www.etymonline.com...

reply to post by undo

Interesting. What are you getting at though? There's 'abzu's'

buried under some ziggurats?

[edit on 1/11/2009 by serbsta]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 12:28 AM by undo

reply to post by serbsta

have you read heiser's paper on "THE NACHASH AND HIS SEED: some explanatory notes on why the serpent in Genesis 3 wasn't a serpent" ?
what he means is, the serpent was not a snake.
here's the paper
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

so, what we have thus far is flying, celestial beings, who came down to the earth, married human women, who then gave birth to kings and rulers (mighty men), and physically superior men (giants, geniuses (genii?), giving rise to the data in the book of 1 enoch and the genesis 6 chapter on the preflood giants, mighty men of reknown, and one of the reasons that planet was "wiped clean".

it's here that i theorized that the biblical version told the account from the perspective of the enlilites, who were primarily human slaves, whereas the mainstream version found in the epic of gilgamesh, describes it from the perspective of the enkites, who were basically the nephilim kings and rulers.

afterall, enki didn't save an enlilite, he saved an enkite, the king of sumer. which is why enlil is so angry at first. enlil had planned on fixing the situation the earth was in (genetic and environmental waste land) by wiping the nephilim but enki had mercy on the nephilim king. after the flood ended, enki councilled the king and told him how to get in the good graces of enlil, which the king then proceeded to do. this had the desired effect of quenching enlil's anger, who then gave the guy eternal life. ... don't ask me, i'm just trying to figure this all out.

regardless, the nephilim and the humans end up surviving the flood, as is indicated in later passages with og, the king of bashan, and gilgamesh, who was two thirds god (a nephilim), according to the text, and nimrod, who BECAME a mighty one (a nephilim) after he was already born!!! (genetic modification anyone???) somewhere along in here, enlil and enki appear to get on the same page and i'm thinking it was following the flood situation or it may be that someone tampered with any number of texts, further confusing the issue.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 12:28 AM by Matyas