Even when the guy does something classy and respectful the Repugs still come out of the woodwork complaining.

Even a staunch Conservative I work with came up to me this morning and said "Your guy did a really classy thing last night".

Why don't you park that damn idiotic pride and have some respect for the 18 men that died last week. The President took time in his schedule to do it, why don't you.

By the way the guy who said Obama did a classy thing, his son was one of the DEA agents on that helicopter that barely survived in Iraq a few days ago. He was just talking to him last week on Skype from the office.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Even when the guy does something classy and respectful the Repugs still come out of the woodwork complaining.

Because many people no longer believe what obama does is real. It all appears to be for show.

Even a staunch Conservative I work with came up to me this morning and said "Your guy did a really classy thing last night".

One person's opinion and they're entitled to it. Just like the rest of us ...

Why don't you park that damn idiotic pride and have some respect for the 18 men that died last week. The President took time in his schedule to do it, why don't you.

My wife is a Blue Star Mom. Do you even know what that means? What have YOU done lately for the troops?

By the way the guy who said Obama did a classy thing, his son was one of the DEA agents on that helicopter that barely survived in Iraq a few days ago. He was just talking to him last week on Skype from the office.

Guess all conservative/Republicans aren't as bad as you tried to make out with the "Repugs" comment.


[edit on 10/29/2009 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I agree with buddha. And jam, a war can be fought without troops. I think we should make a hasty exit and work with intelligence communities for a SMART war. I HATE what we are doing there and if I had Obama's ear, I'd BEG him to leave. We don't belong there. We didn't have any right going there. We should correct the problem, not get further involved.

I just hope he changed his mind. It could happen. Especially after watching dead soldiers return home.

Every general in the past has always said you cant win a war without putting boots on the ground. Iraq is a prime example. We practically bombed them back into the stone age. Their supplies were cut off for God knows how long and we still couldnt "win" the war because we didnt have enough boots on the ground. Unfortunately, our military has become more like the world police instead of being a real military. They have to use kid gloves instead of shoot first, ask questions later. Does anybody believe that any of the "restrictions" that the military has now was implemented in WWII?

Intelligence communities only do one thing, be sneaky. The taliban was created by the CIA, only thing that they can do is try and higher somebody else to go and take out the taliban...either way, we end up paying for it with our $ and eventually our lives. Every time the CIA gets involved with creating a force to go against somebody we deem an enemy, it bites us in the ars cause after the war is done we leave em to their own...same thing with the taliban. We created the same guys we are fighting now, but to fight the Russians instead.

Having the intel comm get involved at all is crap imo. The only thing they are good for is spying on people, which is what they were created for...not to run our wars.

Originally posted by dizzie56
Having the intel comm get involved at all is crap imo. The only thing they are good for is spying on people, which is what they were created for...not to run our wars.

Agreed. Let me explain.

I was going on the assumption that we went onto Afghanistan to find Bin Laden. If that's the reason we're still there, then the CIA should find him and we'll take him out. (I know he's not still there). If that's NOT the reason we're there, or if he's not there, then we should get the hell out of Afghanistan. If Bin Laden is in Pakistan, the CIA should find him and we'll take him out. If he's dead, then we should bring all our troops home. Mission accomplished. War over.

This all started as a means to find Bin Laden. If he's not there, we shouldn't be, either.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by dizzie56
Having the intel comm get involved at all is crap imo. The only thing they are good for is spying on people, which is what they were created for...not to run our wars.

Agreed. Let me explain.

I was going on the assumption that we went onto Afghanistan to find Bin Laden. If that's the reason we're still there, then the CIA should find him and we'll take him out. (I know he's not still there). If that's NOT the reason we're there, or if he's not there, then we should get the hell out of Afghanistan. If Bin Laden is in Pakistan, the CIA should find him and we'll take him out. If he's dead, then we should bring all our troops home. Mission accomplished. War over.

This all started as a means to find Bin Laden. If he's not there, we shouldn't be, either.

Very true. But, if it turns out that he is trully is still alive then the CIA is really doing a crappy job lol.

Im really just afraid that if we leave right now then we will create a power vacuum that will only be filled with more jihadis and all the men and women who have died over there would have died for nothing. The handpicked gen of Obama's says he can win the war with a surge of troops, why not give it to him?

I for one am happy to see the President pay his respects to fallen soldiers.

Some here argue the motive, simply saying it's a photo op, and that's fine, it's your right and opinion. As a Vet that has lost many friends in battle I tell you this; It's nothing more satisfying then to see our top leader honor those who have fallen; not just by words but action, standing at attention and proudly saluting reguardless of what we believe his agenda to be.

In which the state that the country is in, Im suprised some of you haven't said he should be sorting out other issues instead of being up at 4am saluting those that have fallen

Originally posted by dizzie56
Im really just afraid that if we leave right now then we will create a power vacuum that will only be filled with more jihadis and all the men and women who have died over there would have died for nothing.

Sadly, they have already died for nothing, IMO.

The handpicked gen of Obama's says he can win the war with a surge of troops, why not give it to him?

What's "win"? That's rhetorical, because I feel like there isn't an answer to that question. Thinking that we're going to kill or rehabilitate all the bad guys and leave a nation of happy people with a strong and honorable police force to take care of those people is a total fantasy. That's NOT going to happen. We cannot "win".

Yes, it is nice that he paid his respects to the fallen however, Obama never misses a photo op especially when his poll numbers are in the tank. Furthermore, this photo op is just a response to the criticisms for not showing enough respect for our troops in general.

Now, 50 plus soldiers have died in Afghanistan in October and he still has not committed to a strategy or troop deployment plan. It is all or nothing Obama. Go in deep or get out completely. No war was ever won with a half assed strategy or effort.

Obama is too afraid to commit. Unfortunately, as President he can't have it both ways. Sadly, troop morale is suffering due to his lack of conviction.

Originally posted by jibeho
Furthermore, this photo op is just a response to the criticisms for not showing enough respect for our troops in general.

Oh please... This just illustrates the "damned if you do, damn if you don't". Obama doesn't visit long enough with the troops? What a schmuck! What, he does visit? Bleh, it's just photo op.

There is no way to appease your kind. If Obama finds cure for cancer (or at least for hangover) you'll say it's a communist plot.

Originally posted by jibeho
It is all or nothing Obama. Go in deep or get out completely.

And that is the decision he has to make. That is the decision he's taking his time to make. He's collecting all the information from all the sources so he can make the RIGHT decision that will best handle the sticky situation that he took on when he took office.

Are you saying that he should continue with the "Mission accomplished" Bush and "Shoot first, check for people in your line of fire later" Cheney strategy of making rash, ill-thought-out, uneducated decisions?

What's your decision on this? Go in deep or get our completely? Are you ready to have the blood of the lives of all who die, based on your decision, on your hands? It's easy to sit here and type, "Come on, man, make the decision, already." It's cowardly. Because if the people who are saying that were forced to make the decision Obama's about to make, they'd become a shriveling mass of meat on the floor in a pile of their own excrement.

Obama has the guts to do something that George Bush was too cowardly to EVER do. He also lifted the 18-year ban on media coverage of the Dover arrivals so that we, the people, could witness it and be more in touch with the horrible price of war, something previous presidents would rather keep from us. And you have the nerve to insult the man for it? If you can't man up and give him credit for that without qualifying it with a bunch of smack talk about a photo op, then ... I don't know what else to say.

I swear, the guy could cure cancer and there'd still be chorus of people tearing it down for one reason or another. It was a classy and entirely dignified thing for him to do. There are cameras wherever he goes. His entire life is a 'photo op' as has been the case with all Presidents.

As for his 'dithering' on Afghanistan, I believe it is more than appropriate. Listen to the first-hand accounts from the Afghans. They are turning against us because of what they perceive to be a US-backed illegitimate government. Not opinion. Fact. Until they sort-out this election mess it would be stupid and wrong to put yet more Americans in this meat grinder.

Personally, I'm of the opinion we should pull everyone out of all these conflicts. Iraq, Afghanistan, the whole lot and let things sort themselves out. People here bitch-and-moan about the government's meddling in the economy with bailouts and such. WTF do you think Irag and Afgahistan are? Talk about meddling on a colossal scale.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jibeho
It is all or nothing Obama. Go in deep or get out completely.

And that is the decision he has to make. That is the decision he's taking his time to make. He's collecting all the information from all the sources so he can make the RIGHT decision that will best handle the sticky situation that he took on when he took office.

Are you saying that he should continue with the "Mission accomplished" Bush and "Shoot first, check for people in your line of fire later" Cheney strategy of making rash, ill-thought-out, uneducated decisions?

What's your decision on this? Go in deep or get our completely? Are you ready to have the blood of the lives of all who die, based on your decision, on your hands? It's easy to sit here and type, "Come on, man, make the decision, already." It's cowardly. Because if the people who are saying that were forced to make the decision Obama's about to make, they'd become a shriveling mass of meat on the floor in a pile of their own excrement.

Obama has the guts to do something that George Bush was too cowardly to EVER do. He also lifted the 18-year ban on media coverage of the Dover arrivals so that we, the people, could witness it and be more in touch with the horrible price of war, something previous presidents would rather keep from us. And you have the nerve to insult the man for it? If you can't man up and give him credit for that without qualifying it with a bunch of smack talk about a photo op, then ... I don't know what else to say.

First and foremost, Obama has been fully aware of the situation in Afghanistan since his first day in the White House. His strategy should have been in planning since day one. It has been 12 months since the man was elected. He is perpetually waiting for the next report that will solidify his decison. Now he wants to wait until after the Run Off elections. We are looking at December at best. How many more troops will die in the next two months? All because he can't make a decision and because he questions the opinions of the men that he appointed.

How much more time does he need to make the decision?

Meanwhile, our troops are paying the price. Morale is in the dumps and we are on the verge of paying off the Taliban to fight for us.

It is time to pull the pin. The man does not have the stones to pull the pin. Period.

Furthermore, I never insulted Obama for lifting the media ban on coverage at Dover AFB. Don't know where you got that one.

Last but certainly not least, you really have to stop with the Bushisms and constant comparisons to Bush. It really weakens your argument. This is Obama's war now. Time to move on....

edit to add
For the record, I would also love to see Obama pull out Iraq and Afghanistan completely. Unfortunately, that will never happen. The decision to be there predates Clinton, Bush and Obama.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by jibeho]

Originally posted by jibeho
First and foremost, Obama has been fully aware of the situation in Afghanistan since his first day in the White House. His strategy should have been in planning since day one.

The situation there is far from static, as I hope you understand. If the original strategy is now less likely to work, pursuing it just for the sake of appeasing the simple minded would be a pricey mistake.

It is time to pull the pin.

Question is, which one. What I think is happening now is an effort to bribe parts of Taliban and create a semi-stable solution with gradual draw down of troops.

Before anyone gets carried aways with the PHOTO OP BS..well I guess I am too late..but anyways..

I heard the full story on this from NPR and they explained that the press core was directed by the white house/Obama NOT to take any pictures without the soldiers family's consent.

The family of Dale Griffen, the soldier inside that casket, told the press it was OK to photograph the arrival of their son. Other families said no thank you. The white house appropriately told the press core it was the family's perrogative and that they should respectfully abide by their wishes.

After the caskets arrived President Obama sat and talked with all the family members at a nearby cathedral and directed the press not to attend.

So enough of the PHOTO OP junk.....he is our President and these soldiers died under his command...he is allowed one political-hack-free moment to honor them and reflect on his massive responsibilities.

Every President should be this noble and sit with the familys of soldiers.
Obama in talking to the press before the event made a statement qouting Lincoln describing the Soldiers as those who "gave their last full measure of devotion" to this country...

Just one political-hack-free moment...if not for the Potus then for the soldiers.

I have a brother in the 101st that will likely be returning for his second tour in Afghanistan depending on the what decision is made. It's hard to watch these soldiers come home in caskets and posters here scrambling for an angle to make it into an Obama slam.