Question for Religious Believers, The one way.

*Rep08 Thread, if you loathe, or detest me, Click Ignore underneath My avatar, and save some trouble*

I'm curious about this though, I've spoken to a number of people on here, and throughout life, and the main 'consensus' of religion, seems to surround itself around 'believing'.

Now to begin this thread, I thought a little research would be needed, so I googled, "The only Way".

Simple enough, The first link in google was this.

Not a big surprise though, the site (from what noone could ever explore all of!) proclaims to disprove every single idea, thought, proposition, other than christianity. Even the parallels.

I digress.

We can do nothing good to earn our way to heaven (Titus 3:5).

Well, crud.

John 14:6 (New International Version)

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Seems odd, that, no matter our deeds, or dastardly deeds, can earn us, any respect, but it all relies solely upon 'believing', pretty tantamount to santa claus, in a Tim Allen movie, "just believe!".

Wait, I found a little excerpt from a site, for those skeptical, here's a quick and easy way, to live forever.

If you desire to be saved right now and become a Christian (a follower of Jesus)
and know for sure that you will go to Heaven, you can pray this prayer right now.
Pray it to God, pray it from your heart:

Dear God, I know that I'm a sinner. Please forgive me of my sins.
Help me to turn away from my sins. I here and now TRUST in Jesus Christ
as my personal saviour and ask you to come into my heart and life right now.
Come in today, come in to stay! Thank you for dieing on the cross for my sins.
Thank you for saving me. Help me to TRUST you and make you Lord of my life!
In Jesus name I pray, Amen.

If you prayed this prayer, the Bible (God's Word), tells us that when you pass away
or when Jesus returns again, that you will be saved and spend eternity with Jesus Christ!

There, genuine proof, that you'll live forever happily (seems eerily creepy to Ricky Gervais' Invention of Lying lol).

Digressing, my bad.

◊ How does someone become a Muslim?
Simply by saying 'there is no god apart from God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God.' By this declaration the believer announces his or her faith in all God's messengers, and the scriptures they brought.

This is, allegedly from a website, i'm not to sure of... but it's as long as a believer believes.



Before I post things, that many won't give the time to look at, before criticizing me, for being a insomniac or whatever, (and will probably get called something, maybe not if I post this disclaimer, or probably because I've posted a disclaimer lol).

Of all the things in religions, from the vast majority i've seen, the one way to 'an eternal place of happiness' is believing? That sounds, absurd to me... maybe that's just me? In the bible it states, that no sin is to small for god to not notice and judge. AKA yeah, your screwed! But the main "feel" of things is that, as long as you believe, your A-Okay!

I would logically, speaking, think a god would be obsessed with deeds, not just a belief.

I mean the whole supposed system of religion, bases itself upon belief, and backs it up with damnation of those who attack believers.

Just can't 'comprehend' that an almighty, superior being, creator of everything, would spend so much time, hiding, and basing damnation on a living being, on whether one 'believes' or not in someone that may or may not of, shown their face, 1,000s of years ago, or 10,000s of years ago.

Just doesn't ring to me of a godly position.

I'll leave with some videos of course, fun watching, pretty alright, and savvy videos of religions, just don't really touch on the point of religion, the 'belief' part albeit.






Hope you enjoy a good conversation, and if you have nothing nice to say, just stay away.

The whole premise of god is absurd. A guy with an ego so fragile that he constantly needs worship and validation from apparent lesser beings. That must be tantamount to me being upset that a single celled organism does not believe in my existence.

And if I don't 'believe'... this perfect god in his ultimate wisdom and greatness will punish me for the imperfections he endowed me with? It's like a tennis player blaming the racket for a poor shot!

IRM

In Christianity, it's not so much that you believe in Jesus that saves you; even demons believe in Jesus and they tremble, according to the Bible. Rather, it's believing and trust in Jesus' atoning sacrifice for our sins that saves a person.

Also, unlike in Islam, there really is no magic formula in Christianity that makes you a Christian. You simply have to trust on Christ. Yes, some people use a "sinner's prayer" when they're sharing the gospel, but this is really is used to help a person that has already believed on Christ during the presentation to articulate what has happened. Of course, there are those who will say the prayer buy don't really believe and in that case, the prayer doesn't do anything. They're just as lost as they were before. But the prayer isn't really necessary.

For example, I never said a prayer when I became a Christian. I just trusted that Christ's sacrifice would cover my sins and I started to try to follow his commands.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Of all the things in religions, from the vast majority i've seen, the one way to 'an eternal place of happiness' is believing?

If you were to look closely at what many religions believe, they are actually very much works based. For example, there are denominations of Christians that say if you sin, you lose your salvation and won't go to heaven.

Islam, from my understanding, is very much the same; if you do bad, Allah sends you to hell.

Buddhism and Hinduism, while they don't teach in a heaven/hell thing, teach that if you do bad things in life, you take a step backward on the "chain" toward Nirvana but coming back as something worse than you are. If you do good throughout your various lives, you will eventually come back as a priest and/or go right to Nirvana/oneness.

I would logically, speaking, think a god would be obsessed with deeds, not just a belief.

Isaiah 55.8:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.

God's thoughts don't necessarily have to line up with ours. He, after all, is a holy God and we're sinful man. (At least from my point of view.) Elsewhere in Isaiah, it says that God views our righteous acts as filthy rags. In other words, because of our sinful condition, he doesn't view the good things that we do as good because of his complete holiness.

That's one of the reasons why Christ came; to atone for our sin so that we could have a relationship with God. It's when we have this relationship with God, that God starts "caring" about our deeds. Though, not for salvation's sake, but rather for rewards in eternity future.

From my understanding, this is what separates biblical Christianity apart from other religions. God wants everyone to come to him in the same way, on the same level, through Christ, with the realization of their sinfulness, without works attached.

Ephesisans 2.8-9:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

ETA:

backs it up with damnation of those who attack believers.

This isn't so in Christianity (or any religion I think). No one is damned because of attacking believers. Rather they're punished for either:

1. Not being good enough/being in sin.
   
2. Rejecting Christ's sacrifice.
   

[edit on 10/29/2009 by octotom]

[edit on 10/29/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by Republican08


Well basically it has to do with the sin of pride.

Believing in God is the first step to realizing there is a higher power than you and so you can take yourself off the pedestal and stop thinking you know what's best when you don't always know what's best. I don't care who you are, none of us always knows whats best, but humans for some reason always like to think they do.

Take Christianity as an example, If one doesn't believe Jesus was really a god it's not long before some start to question all the other things Jesus said and asked them do.

Which some might think is a good thing that they question, but remember that some people, perhaps even most, are morons and sometimes they think the best plan is to mass murder a whole bunch of people. For them, it's best if they just listen to Jesus or some other religion or philosophy instead cause they just can't hack it on their own.

Now our society is getting more educated than ever. So, it's not as bad as it was, but think back to when these religions were written down? Imagine those people trying to figure out what's best for themselves? They all lived in virtual ignorance and had no access to information like we do now. They couldn't make decisions for themselves if they'd wanted to.

Now, I've heard a lot of atheists say they don't need the Bible or religion to be a good person, well that's wonderful, but some people seriously do. That may be sad, but that's just the way it is. Also, remember that what a good person is, is subjective. No matter what we've done wrong, we all like to think we're a good person. Even the pedophile in jail sometimes thinks they're still a good person. So, the I think I'm a good person doesn't really mean anything if there's nothing to judge it objectively.

But some people are seriously so bad at living their own life they just need some kind of structure or belief or guide regardless of what their higher power is. Without that structure and without that advice and without the belief that the advice is correct, everything can fall apart on them when they start to question and get confused and don't know the right path to take anymore.

It's even worse when they're on the wrong path but have themselves on a metaphorical pedestal where they think they know exactly what's best for them and nobody can tell them nothing, right up until they don't. Drug dealers fall into this trap a lot. They're smart, they won't get caught right? They can do no wrong right?

And that's what the major theme is, walking the right path and being rewarded for it. If there is a god it would know that the first step to walking the path it wants you to walk is to believe that it's the right path.

See, if they don't believe in the god then everything their religion tells them to do, is just what some other guy said. Well he's just some other guy right? He doesn't know any better than I do right? I know better than him right? He was wrong about this, he was wrong about that! It's not like he's a god right? And the next thing you know they've got themselves back up on the pedestal screwing everything up again.

But the next question is, why doesn't god care about your deeds and what you actually do? Well most religions the god does care about your deeds and that's why they want you to walk the path in the first place.

But using deeds as a form of judgement just kind of falls apart. I mean I've heard a lot of atheists say why should I burn in Hell for eternity for not believing in God? Then they turn right around say well why should I burn in Hell for eternity just because I lied one time? I'm still a good person right?

Basically what that boils down to though is the sin of pride again. It's never as bad as when someone else has done it. But no matter what you've done it's not that bad right? You just lied one time right? Or eight times? Or even the murderer in prison will say, well that guy across the hall killed twice as many people as I did! He's worse than I am?

So, you can say, well why isn't he worried about my good deeds instead of if I believe? Like if I feed the hungry that means I'm a good person right? Well, maybe, did you kill 30 people on your way to feeding the hungry?

I don't think we want that kind of system either, where if someone kills 10 people you're still a good person as long as you save 11 people too. They still killed 10 people regardless of if they saved 11. It's certainly not fair to the 10 that are dead.

You get atheists asking question about that. They say, well okay, let me get this straight! I can kill as many as I want as long as I save more than that? What kind of joke is that?

So either way, the atheists don't like the answer. If god judges us by our deeds they say it's a load of crock cause they shouldn't be punished just for doing a few bad things. Everyone makes mistakes right? They're still a good person right?

So, God says, well okay don't worry about the deeds then, just believe in me. And the atheists turn right back around and say, oh okay, so I can do whatever I want as long as I believe in you? What a load of CROCK!

In other words, to the atheists it's a load of crock no matter which way it works. So, why bother arguing about how it works? Either way it's a load of crock right?

But the point is, god does care about our deeds and that's why a god would want you to believe. I mean any god would be smart enough to realize that they're not scientifically provable. No matter what they did someone would say it's a trick or whatever. Not being confined to our laws of physics obviously means no scientist could ever prove a god was a god and not just a magician.

The god knows that all you can really do is either believe or not to believe, but the key is to change your heart so your deeds will change accordingly.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by tinfoilman]

A "little research" deserves a little answer.

The Bible addresses three interrelated themes. Faith, the unfolding of events leading to the appearance of the Christ and the simple message to mankind that mankind will not survive left to his own devices.

I won't beleaguer the points because people like you are not in search of answers or you wouldn't be here looking for them. No, you're here because this is sport for you. This is where you have enough like minded individuals to mount an attack against any believers your able to bait out. Gee golly what fun.

It took me years of dedicated research to pour through volumes of printed material, that was anything but pro Christian, to reach the point that I could comfortably believe what I now believe. The starting point was a firm embrace of atheism and a belief that I'm sure you share that Christians have IQ's to rival turnips.

I can end on this note. If I am wrong in what I believe then when I close my eyes for the last time that's it, nothing more. If, on the other hand, you are wrong then when you die your party's just beginning.

Be certain in what you believe, eternity is a long long time to be wrong.

When you study the three major Western Philosophies/Religions you begin to see that we are all one people trying desperately to make sense out of this life. No one has it right, because we are but microscopic dust mites when compared to the vastness of the Universe itself.

Whether you believe: that Jesus Christ, is your Lord and Savior, the Divine Son of The Living God and was crucified, dead, and buried, and on the third day arose from the dead to forgive you of all your sins through his sacrifice, and those that believeth in him shall not perish from the earth, but have everlasting life in heaven; or that there is but One True God, Allah, and Muhammed is his Prophet blessed be His Name; or that the 12 Tribes of the Sons of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (later called Israel) are God's chosen people and have, as such, covenanted with the Almighty, and their Messiah is yet to come; or that following the middle path to enlightenment can help you transcend your earthly bonds as taught by the Buddha; or that through letting go of earthly desires you can achieve Karmic transcendence and at long last not reincarnate to this earthly realm, but ascend to the join Shiva in the divine union of the Godhead; or that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will save your soul, bless his noodly appendages, Ramen; IT DOES NOT MATTER. We're all stuck on this little blue marble looking for answers. Let go, and in the words of Bill Hicks, know that it is just a ride.

The world is like a ride at an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it, you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round and it has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while.

Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: 'Is this real? Or is this just a ride?' And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and they say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid -- ever -- because... this is just a ride.' And we kill those people.

'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride! Shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry; look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real.' It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that -- ever notice that? -- and we let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because... it's just a ride, and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort. No worry. No job. No savings and money. Just a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy bigger guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.

Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, into a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over -- not one human being excluded -- and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace.

Peace
-AAH

reply to post by Republican08

Just can't 'comprehend' that an almighty, superior being, creator of everything, would spend so much time, hiding, and basing damnation on a living being, on whether one 'believes' or not in someone that may or may not of, shown their face, 1,000s of years ago, or 10,000s of years ago.

Your concern is shared with many. An eternal consequence determined by faith. That sounds harsh. But what is the alternative?

Earning our own way? Doing an endless list of rites, rituals, and good deeds to EARN salvation? While many religious systems require rigorous actions of their adherents to follow, in Christianity, salvation is based on a simple 'I accept' level. And even when you have doubts, it's a conscious decision to say, 'I may not KNOW but God I will put my faith in you that you are what you say you are.' That's it. It doesn't get any easier than that.

When people bring up the objection you do, I feel it is as if they place God into a situation where He cannot win. If he demands we spend our entire life earning salvation ourselves He would get accused of asking the impossible. But when He says 'Here it is. It's free. Just say yes.' He's harsh? Giving a gift for free and all you have to do is accept is unfair? That doesn't make any sense.

We don't earn it. It is given to us for the taking. To me, that's true mercy. We don't deserve the pardon and cannot earn the pardon but it's given to us in spite of ourselves if we accept it.

[edit on 10/29/2009 by AshleyD]

I have to agree with Octotom I think he hit the nail on the head with this one!

When people read the Bible or any other religious text they tend to input their own beliefs into what they are reading and end up with a skewed interpretation of what the bible originally sent as a message. So I give you this task if you so choose to take it. Read the bible with no preposition on religion or faith and with an open heart taking from it what it says not what you believe it says.

Too many people focus on the works based idea and I will give you a great example:

Who is the best person you know and I mean the most perfect person!
most will respond with "Mother Terresa" so if your given a scale of 1-10 and 10 being absolute perfection in life. What would you rate Mother T? Most answers I get are 7-9 but nobody ever seriously picks 10... hmmm ok so now I ask where do you fit within that scale now that you believe mother T to be __. And EVERY response I have ever gotten was less than mother T. so then I follow with this simple logic... If you have to be perfect to get to heaven and Mother T who is the most perfect person you know has fallen short of that mark how can you make it? A works based system fails every time and this is what makes christianity so unique! The faith in Christ is not based on works rather yet is based on your faith in Christ as your savior and your relationship to God.

You find all this creepy and I believe you are looking at this in the negative mindset. Look at it this way as a Christian Christ teaches us to put others before ourselves and to love one another as brothers. So if you believe in Christ and the sacrifice he gave and you say hey yeah there is a God then when you die you go to heaven but say hypothetically there is no god and its all a lie. then you will have lived a meaningful and purposeful life helping others and will be remembered for such! Its a win win if you ask me! Atheist are so darn negative that their arguments are often not valid because they are so jaded to see the other side. By being a Christian you have NOTHING to Lose soo give it some thought and remember we are all brothers here on earth so treat each other that way!

Mike

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Republican08

 

Just can't 'comprehend' that an almighty, superior being, creator of everything, would spend so much time, hiding, and basing damnation on a living being, on whether one 'believes' or not in someone that may or may not of, shown their face, 1,000s of years ago, or 10,000s of years ago.

Your concern is shared with many. An eternal consequence determined by faith. That sounds harsh. But what is the alternative?

Earning our own way? Doing an endless list of rites, rituals, and good deeds to EARN salvation? While many religious systems require rigorous actions of their adherents to follow, in Christianity, salvation is based on a simple 'I accept' level. And even when you have doubts, it's a conscious decision to say, 'I may not KNOW but God I will put my faith in you that you are what you say you are.' That's it. It doesn't get any easier than that.

When people bring up the objection you do, I feel it is as if they place God into a situation where He cannot win. If he demands we spend our entire life earning salvation ourselves He would get accused of asking the impossible. But when He says 'Here it is. It's free. Just say yes.' He's harsh? Giving a gift for free and all you have to do is accept is unfair? That doesn't make any sense.

We don't earn it. It is given to us for the taking. To me, that's true mercy. We don't deserve the pardon and cannot earn the pardon but it's given to us in spite of ourselves if we accept it.

[edit on 10/29/2009 by AshleyD]

Excellent post and so very true!

Thanks guys!

That was very insightful! Took me a while to read them all, not picking favorites but... I like tinmans explanation the best lol

Thanks for clearing that up for me.