Colopatiron, you are a big idealist and maybe naive to the eyes of many members in ATS. but you know what? I believe that is the kind of idealism more people need if things are to change worldwide.

you have placed several ideas that sound good, such as shelter and food being free, among other things. Unfortunately, in this world that is driven by pure greed, the things that should be free are in fact made hard to get or expensive, just to get a quick buck.

now that the ideas are in the table, what needs to be done is a change of attitude. Most of us in ATS blame the powers that be for all the woes in the world. My question is, what are we doing to change things? how many of us have really tried to get into politics? How many of us have created non-governmental organizations to plant fruit-bearing trees in cities stricken by poverty? How many of us have joined and been active in international organizations to try to help stop hunger, and disease in the worst-off places on Earth?

WE can be the powers that be, we can make the difference and change how the world is run. Sure, many parts of the world are not fertile enough to create efficient food supplies, but the U.S. produces enough food to feed a great lot of people daily if only the food was delivered freely to areas such as Haiti, Western Sahara and Somalia.

We can give free shelter to everyone, if only we decided to get involved in the housing industry and change how things are run from within the organizations.

We can change the governments of the world, if only we decided to become active ourselves and ran for positions of power.

Maybe most of us are too old to accomplish these things, however, we can always give these ideas to the future generations so they can finish what we should start right now.

I am going to study politics, if only to have a chance to change things up to an extent. Obviously i will be face to face with evil or greedy people, and that is why I will need help in the process. How many of you will get involved in politics to become the new powers that be? how many of you are planning on changing the food, medical, and housing industry from within?

The ideas set forth by the OP will continue to sound unrealistic and naive as long as we sit hopelessly on our behinds lamenting the state of the world. We can change things, but only if people all over the world decide to get involved in the process instead of saying "it can't be done", "the powers that be control everything and there is nothing I can do", "I won't even bother helping out my neighbor because it won't make a difference anyway", etc.

defenely didnt change my life

Originally posted by trey85
defenely didnt change my life

You're right. This didn't change my life or my thinking, either.

However, he's right too. I understand what he's trying to say. Food is free, naturally. Shelter is free, naturally. Energy is free, naturally. We are brainwashed. Our supposed leaders - Our government - Does not want us thinking about what we already know.

Fruit, vegetables and even meat are natural. In truth, the government does not own the food that earth provides us to survive. We do. In truth, the government does not own the land that earth provides us to live on. We do. In truth, the government does not own the sources from which we get our energy. We do. The government does not own the earth - Even if they somehow manage to establish one world government - The earth owns the earth.

In a world that revolves around a slip of paper or a plastic card, we sometimes forget where we come from. We sometimes forget that this earth was created for us and that everything that we essentially need to survive was not created by a government or even mankind, it was created from earth itself. We forget that nature is perfectly balanced.

It is the greed of mankind that got us to this point. The greed to control the food supply. The greed to control other human beings. The greed to be powerful.

Why are people starving in Africa? Ask yourself this. What is the common response given by governments and world leaders? The response given by the U.N. was that there was no work for these people. No work for what? To pay for what should be free to them! Ask yourself this? Why do we only send food to these people on occasion? And why is it always delivered via planes and parachutes? Does the government not have enough respect for these people to deliver food by person? Why aren't we helping these countries develop the way earth intended them to develop by planting fruit tree's? Which are both a source for food and water. Instead we say, "here's your food. Enjoy your quick fix. Sorry, tomorrow you'll be hungry again".

Food is not a constitutional right or a right owned by a government. Food and shelter are basic human rights. What the OP was trying to say was that we are brainwashed to believe our natural resources are the governments.

The food shortage is not real. The earth provides plenty of food for everyone.
Diseases are treatable, naturally.
Money is not real.

The NWO is not real.The government is not real. For no one can claim property that is not theirs to claim.

this is true, now only if they couldn't evict you from "their" land!!! but who claims what is rightfully ours? i TELL "YOU" DO IT! like NIKE=4=Love Just=4 Do=2 It=2 4+4=8 = 2 circles that are infinite, a snake eating its own tail!

I would like to personally welcome all of you to the REAL WORLD where I live.

See, mankind is nothing but civilized animal. The bigger animal preys on the smaller one and so on. It's the survival of the fittest.

I'll give you one 'simple' reason why growing food and building shelter and all the other oversimplified ideas of yours will never work.

Lets say, there's 100 people in a certain area. You all decide to follow your ideas and start living 'Free'. Out of that 100, I guarantee you that even if 99 of you will follow the ideas, there will be atleast 1 person in the group who will think, these guys are growing enough food why should I, he/she will just steal other people's food.

Now make that society bigger, there will be people who will murder you in a heartbeat to steal your land and your shelter (America anyone??)

So now you are living 'Free' but some of these pesky humans need to be kept in check. You form a group of people whose sole purpose is to keep a check on these individuals (Police?).

Now that you have taken care of protecting your 'belongings' from freeloaders you realize you are not doing things very efficiently. People realize that stronger, bigger males are much suited for building shelter. You form groups of people who specialize in doing what they do best (Jobs?). Building shelter is hard work, the farmers provide them food in exchange for a fine piece of wood/mud/brick/steel structure they build for you (Barter?).

Some people are good at remembering and documenting which kind of plant/fruit growth is good for humans and in which way. They can also do research and figure out what kinda food/herb helps prevent/cure/eliminate certain diseases/allergies (Doctor?).

So now you have a huge society with doctors, farmers, construction workers, etc. until you realize barter is not working out fairly. So, a system is developed where you assign a value to goods/services/etc. This system helps you trade fairly based on the pre-assigned values (Money?).

Now you need people/elders/councils to figure out what value should be assigned to each goods/services based on the man hours/research/complexity/quality/scarcity value of the said goods/services. You also need these people to make decisions for the people as a society on other matters as well. You have to have some rules/boundaries which people should not break/cross for the good of the society as whole (Government?).

So now lets see where we are at........THE REAL WORLD.....surprise surprise.

And now few hundred/thousand years later we realize the people with power have become corrupt and there is no one to police them. They control what you buy/sell. You have to 'own' things before you can use them. There are all kinds of people in the world. Someone does something stupid and a new law is made to prevent further stupidity. You have millions of laws telling you how to live your everyday life. Suddenly you feel suffocated. You can't just 'have' a land, you have to buy it. You don't wanna pay for overpriced food so grow your own. Electric companies rip you off so you want to install your own solar panels (man made devices which you have to PAY for before you can use them). Now you think you have the secret of life figured out. So you think you should impart you wisdom to other people and teach them how to be 'Free'.................

Go back to Line 1 and repeat.

I can see society crumbling all around my feet. Day by day ! Those who have
trouble with change are the worse for the wear ! If I fear anything, It is those who choose not to wake up to their place in their surroundings !
Self sufficiency skills and ideas are being shared by those who ask sincerely for help. Fear can be dealt with by working out situations as they arise !

It is an individual's responsibility to carry their own water. We can learn again !

Learn to eat less ! Learn to be who you would want to be with ! If you wish to
prosper and thrive find a way to do so !

There is plenty ! If not where you are now , Find a place where you can see this ! It is your responsibility to understand this !

You really don't have anything to fear ! But maybe your own ignorance and
you should already be working on that !

First, I have to say, IT IS MY OPINION:

I am amazed in the opposite positions argued in this post. The OP post for faith that we DO control ALL the things that effect our lives. its true. where is there land? everywhere! does it grow food? maybe not, so MOVE (if your feet still work) the US is covered with vast forests that hold game, natural food, and water, with NO or FEW people. I suspect many other places in the world have it too, but you have to look!

All the negative posters I feel sorry for, because the answer is in the mirror. It all has to do with faith (in yourself, fellow man, God, and that you know you can do it) The answer is there and attainable. you can't take "no, or it can't be done" as the answer! If there is no answer, why bother! Just give up now, when its easy

The problem is most people won't make the tent out of rags, sleep on the ground, drop the lifestyle, and EAT BUGS if needed. thats why when the manure hits the rotational air device, riots, looting, murder, rape, and theft will be the short term norm. Tools? how about a rock, a stick, old metal, some cordage/vine-age. Water in the desert, got a sheet of plastic? (heck it doesn't decompose) seeds & animals were domesticated once before. (I proved this summer that wild doves could be trained to come in on schedule twice a day)

The main thing is to know, I MEAN KNOW IN YOUR HEART, I can do it!! you want to feed everybody and feel better about yourself...yuppie pipe dream. people were dying before, and they will continue to. worry about yourself! your family!!! your friends!!! (not ment as selfish to the rest of the world, only as the primary focus first) When you relieve your own burden upon society, then be the humanitarian. until then, FOCUS! but to beat up someone else, in real, in posts, or by being generally mean, to make your own lazy self feel better is worse than not contributing at all. (not ment as an attackon anyone here) IMHO negativity, "realism", and pesimism (sp?) just means that you have already given up, want a hand out, or expect someone else to figure it out for you. we are the leaders, survivors!!!

And, for the record, I raised my family, in the ozarks for 15 years with a low annual income of $7500 and a high score of $16,000 (2 working parents and 3 kids, with 3 different homeless house guests that we helped at times, too) DO NOT tell me it can't be done, we did it, and had a very reasonable lifestyle. and we were happy (we also maintained 2 cars on that, and ran our cottage businesses and paid for our property, and thats not "fake laundered declared income", actual cash taken in)

great thread! we will survive, thrive, and teach
TPTB don't realize WE are the new world order, not them

Dr Dodge

I agree fully that people can be self sufficiant therfore would wipe out any need of dependancy on your governments etc... The biggest problem I am facing is GMo seeds it is close to impossible to find seed free from GMOs on my island, or any where else. This is something that the worlds populations are having to deal with it is how they will control your FREE food so you cannot live self contained.

we are not intelligent we have a brain of a dog compared to zeta reticuli and others;no we are not in charge on earth

I agree with your interpretation of people can grow their own food etc...as my ex husband was in the Army and told me a story about filming of a news report on people supposedly starving but the truth was far removed from the portrayal made by the news crew. He said that people were PAID four weeks before the filming to starve themselves so that when they filmed it looked like they needed food desperately. He was in the UN Peace Keeping Force in Bosnia and took part in the film being made. The storyline goes that the food truck from the UN was giving out aid to the people of the region in the form of food. There was a mass of local people made to look as if they were desperate for food, praying, pleading, fighting over the convoy of food. But they were all paid to be there. As the food was given out the camera scanned them all, the skinny ones especially who had been paid had close ups of their faces and emancipated bodies filmed to make us feel sorry for them when it was shown on our televisions. After the filming everyone was paid with money and cigarettes and the UN soldiers went with the film crew to the local diner for something to eat. After I heard this story I have stopped giving to charity and do not believe any propoganda about starving people or any other thing that I cannot prove myself with my own eyes. I have often watched war torn area footage on the news before this and wondered if there was no food how did I see people smoking cigarettes? Now I know cigarettes are used as a currency to make people make propaganda to us back here so that we dig deep into our pockets to save the starving people that don't really exist!