Why would the idea of a gay man frighten other males so much?

Originally posted by 297GT
To be brutally honest, a lot of homosexual men are overtly offensive on purpose, and are more deviate, and more sexually active, perverse and extreme than most heterosexual men.

I agree, it is true. You get those sorts on both sides though. There are the fem gays which are a real punch in the gut, but then you get the super rough hetero self-righteous manly men.

More sexually active is both for hetero and gay only it may depend on how often they get the sexual opportunity. More perverse, I wouldn't know.

Originally posted by HankMcCoy

Originally posted by Angus123
Straight males... truly straight males... don't fear or hate gays in the least.
It's the ones that know that deep down they too have those feelings and their own self-loathing gets directed toward gays. You'd never hear a straight male say that gays choose to be gay either, because they know they didn't choose to be straight.

The ones who do say it's a choice say that because they CHOOSE to not act on their natural impulses.

These behaviors are to cover up their own sexuality in an effort to convince others (and even themselves) they are straight, or simply creates for themselves a target besides the man in the mirror upon whom to heap their hatred.

No... straight men don't hate gays. But secret gays do.

1. To say that there aren't any 'truly' straight men that hate homosexuals would be as silly as saying that there aren't any closeted homosexuals that act out in the ways you described.

Also, why wouldn't straight men say that it's a choice? Even in your scenario, a straight man would not have had to make a choice to be straight, as straight would be the default and homosexual would be the deviance, or choice.

2. Your post demonizes homosexuals and says that all of their problems as a group come from within. I bet there are many men in this thread that would disagree with you, including myself.

3. Religion. Suffice it to say that this is another angle that you have not taken into account. To many people care what God says, and to many people God has said its naughty.

Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I concede the point that some straight men may hate gays. By and large I'd wager they don't. Why would they after all? They're secure in their own manhood. However just because straight is the default setting doesn't mean gays choose their orientation, so that argument falls flat.

And speaking as a gay man I can tell you that centuries of society's negative depiction of gays compels gay people to a self loathing and that gets manifested in the homophobia we see. And a lot of it comes from others just like us.

That's easy.. Every job I have had where there are gays, 99% of them can't stop staring, like to "accidentally" brush their hand across your ass, Talk in explicit detail what they and their "bf" did the night before.. Its the fact that even though they know your straight, they always wanna push their stuff on you, let alone seeing them come into work with nasty scabs and sores on their mouth. They feel that they have the right to announce their orientation to the world, when most don't wanna hear it. If someone wants to be gay, that's their business, just leave me out of it.


Deebo

The term "perverted" aways cracks me up.
According to Freud "perverted" is defined by "biological or natural sex".
That means: any sex act outside a penis in a vagina to procreate is perverted! Any fetish for a garment, act or object is a perversion, and so is obstructing biological sex with a condom! However, the perversions are OK if they lead to biological sex (eg., first get spanked, and then have intercourse). Freud discussed homosexuality seperately, and regarded the persecution of gays as a violation of human rights. His student, Magnus Hirschfeld took such reseach further, but it was destroyed by the Nazis.
Many culture have traditional gender roles and notions of sex acts that are still differnt from Western binaries of gay/straight. In several regions only the penetrated man is regarded as "gay". Others have remnants of the pre-colonial "third-gender": berdaches in the USA; Hijras in Pakistan and India; Waria in Indonesia, and several more in the East and Oceania. Traditionally these were roles with significant social status. Often it had to do with talent and labor. If a boy was better at women's work, then he could become "berdache" (many of the expert Hopi basket-weavers were berdache). So, anthropologically speaking the third-gender role allowed individuals to use their talents to the fullest benefit of society.
Colonialism did not take kindly to these roles. They were often associated with native spirituality: one myth tells that men and women went to war and the berdahe reunited the genders. Having a foot in both genders and being none was also taken metaphorically: having a foot in the spiritual and material as a go-between. In India they still are believed to bless weddings and births. In South Africa many sangomas (shamanic healers) are gay or lesbian. What these people did sexually is unclear, some were married to opposite genders, some to the same, some were castrati, and many were not. The missionaries hated it - Balboa threw 40 transvestites to his dogs, the Hijras were reduced to begging and prostitution, and cultures were ingrained with homophobia. Sadly, Western gays have lost the spriritual roles and responsibilities, and Western forms of political action have led to backlashes.
It's quite strange, this issue of "perversion". US entertainment is itself considered perverted, and femininity is represented as ever more frivilous. It's all Playboy Mansions, Kendra, the Kardashians and Desperate Housewives. The idea of sexiness seems to sell with designer vaginas, and fake butts and boobs; not to mention role-model pimps and ho's. Some even label this new aggro femininity the new "female chauvenist pigs". Why single out gays as perverted? Well, it takes one to know one!

Originally posted by nightrun

I agree, it is true. You get those sorts on both sides though. There are the fem gays which are a real punch in the gut, but then you get the super rough hetero self-righteous manly men.

More sexually active is both for hetero and gay only it may depend on how often they get the sexual opportunity. More perverse, I wouldn't know.

yes shouldn't just aim it at one side as there is equally the same on the other side of the fence so to speak.

Perverse is equal in terms of homo or hetro...it's a word that portrays many differing pictures.

Perverse I was more aligned to was the linebacker with 12inch high heels and 6inch eye lashes and real/fake boobs...the worst make up ever, in a pink tutu.

I have also know guys that have...become gay or realized they were gay what ever..suddenly over night develop a lisp and floral speech.
I even said to one mate whats with the gay speak...response was what do you mean...?

Hey i have been a long time reader of ATS but this is my first post , i personally never had any problems with "gays" i used to know a few that hung out with the same group of friends that used to hang out with until one night the hole group and i went out to a bar and a few hours into the night i had to go pee ( this was when the party moved from the bar back to my buddies house) i went out side and one of the gay guys sorta half followed i figured he had to pee to so im standing near the fence peeing and he runs up as im peeing still and tried to put his mouth around my wiener i jumped back really fast he got a face full of piss and i got mad , and ever since then the hole grizzly dude sucking a harry penis has always freaked me out , i still don't hate gays by any means , but as the original poster said i really think it's because how can you not like a vagina? i have a gay sister and somehow i think that's ok but not a guy on guy is this something i possibly could have been lead to believe?

Originally posted by deadpixel99
Hey i have been a long time reader of ATS but this is my first post , i personally never had any problems with "gays" i used to know a few that hung out with the same group of friends that used to hang out with until one night the hole group and i went out to a bar and a few hours into the night i had to go pee ( this was when the party moved from the bar back to my buddies house) i went out side and one of the gay guys sorta half followed i figured he had to pee to so im standing near the fence peeing and he runs up as im peeing still and tried to put his mouth around my wiener i jumped back really fast he got a face full of piss and i got mad , and ever since then the hole grizzly dude sucking a harry penis has always freaked me out , i still don't hate gays by any means , but as the original poster said i really think it's because how can you not like a vagina? i have a gay sister and somehow i think that's ok but not a guy on guy is this something i possibly could have been lead to believe?

Of course your more likely to accept girl on girl if your sister is a lesbian, I find it hard to believe you would have a problem with lesbian relationships because at the end of the day you love your sister no matter what her sexuality.

In this respect your lucky to have a different perspective, you see her as who she is rather than what she does sexually.

However I would add that alot of males who find gay relationships disgusting wouldn't have a problem watching a porn film featuring two blonde lesbians having sex with each other.

With that in mind you would think the opposite would be true i.e. Women find male on male sex scenes arousing however I have never met a women yet who thinks this, sure there must be some women out there who find it arousing but I haven't met one yet.

It adds a new spin on the subject.

Actually, Death Kron--

Some women absolutely LOVE two men going at it, especially if they are both handsome and young...

The singer 'Madonna' in her jejune (but popular) video fro the early 1990s featuring Antonio banderas Truth or Dare actually said out loud that she 'was getting a BIG hardon' watcing two men sitting at her table French Kissing and (&tc) ...and I have heard lots of women say the same thing essentially (doesn't seem that rare out here in Los Angeles) ...usually very experienced sexually active women --though probably not as sexually charged as Madonna is..!!

Why would the idea of a straight man frighten other gay males so much?

I'm straight, I have no problems with gay men. I don't care if they're so flamboyant. I've only met two gay guys during my short life span of 25 years. Both of them are really cool to talk to, very good friends.

I treat them how they like to be treated, same goes for everyone I meet. If a gay guy is really feminine or flamboyant, I treat "him" as if he was a "her". Sometimes I think of it as if a woman was born into a man's body.

I started to think that way after I found out about Poy, the famous Thai "lady". Here's some images of "her", I hope I upload correctly...





I guess, some gay guys lack the surgery but if I were to tell you that this lady was a guy... if you didn't know about it first hand, can you tell? Makes you question your sexuality doesn't it?

I like to think of it as some women were unfortunately, really born into a man's body and it's not their fault.

My $0.02

Originally posted by Sigismundus
Actually, Death Kron--

Some women absolutely LOVE two men going at it, especially if they are both handsome and young...

The singer 'Madonna' in her jejune (but popular) video fro the early 1990s featuring Antonio banderas Truth or Dare actually said out loud that she 'was getting a BIG hardon' watcing two men sitting at her table French Kissing and (&tc) ...and I have heard lots of women say the same thing essentially (doesn't seem that rare out here in Los Angeles) ...usually very experienced sexually active women --though probably not as sexually charged as Madonna is..!!

I never said not all women do mate, simply that I haven't met any that think that way. As I said I'm pretty sure that is an appeal to some women out there but I would think that in the majority girl on girl attracts more male viewers in comparison to men on men with female watchers.

In my own experience, I would say guys fear what they don't understand as the top reason they fear gays.

Its a concept that, for most, has been drilled into their minds as evil, sinful, gross, and wrong; but, when in actual proximity of someone gay, their concept doesnt fit the person and this internal battles plays out over ideology and actuality.

Following closely behind is the thought of being the desire of some gay boy. And I would say the three underlying reasons are being laughed at by other straight guys, the loss of assertiveness the role reversal would play being the defacto chick to a gay boy, and they're afraid they may enjoy physical interaction with another guy.

It always trips people out, in my case, when my guy friends find out I'm gay because I don' fit the stereotypes the media or church sphew. More than often, people think I'm joking with them which is funny to me and I have two straight male friends who honestly believe I'm playing a long running joke on them.

To most everyone I've encountered, the concept of a gay Republican Christian booksmart tech geek, who plays hockey & basketball, associates with graff (iti) artists, talks without a lisp and is in love with Seven-Of-Nine is non-existant. Lol wait till word gets out I'm also an inter-dimensional alien time-traveler from the past ;-)

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
...
2) The whole anal thing, its not a gay thing dude, i've "known" quite a few chicks who were very fond of it and I was more than happy to oblige

I'm not gay, just very comfortable about my sexuality, its societies hang ups, not mine. You'd be suprised how much straight sex involves anal.

I'm really tired of reading crap like the above statements.

ANAL SEX IS GAY
Any woman who has a desire for anal sex is obviously demented and any man who likes to have anal sex with a woman is clearly a closet case.
If you enjoy it, then you go ahead and do it (while telling yourself you are not gay), but don't make out that everybody is doing it now days, because the majority of straight people use vaginas and bums for their ordinary uses.


To the OP, I'm a woman, so I can't really answer your question, but from reading all 15 pages, I think it's clear that ladies privates aren't really a factor.
Also from reading all your replies, I get the impression that you fear/dislike women much more so than you actually like men. You should only be homosexual if you love men, not simply because you dislike women.

Straight Men are not fearful of gay men. Quite the opposite.

Straight men pride themselves, on who is the toughest, who is the alpha, who's in charge etc.

When they see a man, who is very submissive they gag a bit. It's against everything they stand for. They see it as a weakness.

Like giving up on life, to just bend over and submit to another man.

That's how straight men see gay men.

Hi Four LiveR

The issue is TOP v. BOTTOM; Some are one or the other, some are both.

Only 30% of gay men are exclusivley passive-bottom according to the Hyte Report on Male Sexuality, the other 70% are either TOP or TOP and BOTTOM, and these 'others' generally do NOT exhibit femme traits at all that are noticeable and can easily blend into the main population un-noticed...

Some 'bottoms' (e.g. the actor 'Rock Hudson') act tough as part of their public persona ('he's so butch !') but are in fact passive sexual bottoms.

In the 1950s only a few within the inner circles of Hollywood knew anything at all about him (the studio married him off to a secretary to throw off the press)

The world is full of these 'bottom men' (men who are primarilly sexually passive as gay men) who act just like 'tops' (or even compensate, by acting even MORE top/butch) and thus are largely un-noticed and are well-accepted generally by 'straight men' who do not know the details, shall we say, of the person's hidden sex-life.

Such a closeted 'double life' may induce the man to marry a female to throw people off the scent--living a lie, in other words. Judy Garland's father was able to produce 3 daughters to whom he was devoted--but he kept a string of pretty boys nearby to satisfy him sexually.

How very 'Greek' of him !

Interestingly, the 'obvious camp' femme gay males are in the minority, although you'd never think so to look around you in America: I've even seen what appear to be 'femme gay bottoms' turn out to be either gay tops or straight tops, who would not THINK of being passive in the sack.

Some of these femme men are bi-sexual tops or top/bottom, and interestingly, a large percentage of the socalled extra-butch 'top' straight acting 'sports loving' and masculine appearing men are bisexual (i.e. omnisexual) whether they've become that way over time (i.e. over 30 when most men start to give up their sexual hangups) or if they've spent time in prisons where they learn, shall we say, 'new positions' in the sack.

The world's a weird place--especially once you get behind 'closed doors' especially in the US where most males feel that have to 'butch it up' all the time...

ANAL SEX IS GAY
Any woman who has a desire for anal sex is obviously demented and any man who likes to have anal sex with a woman is clearly a closet case.
If you enjoy it, then you go ahead and do it (while telling yourself you are not gay), but don't make out that everybody is doing it now days, because the majority of straight people use vaginas and bums for their ordinary uses.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I heard the most frequent "ordinary use" of the vagina is excreting urine.
I suppose you mean to say that vaginas are for sex and bums for excreting. Therefore to you, anal sex is abhorent and unnatural. Yet urine is passed through the vagina and penis, and even the mouth can be used for vomiting. Thus, even sex for procreation involves the rubbing of excretory organs together.
Being gay means being sexually and/or romantically attracted to the same sex. I don't see how that would make a heterosexual man having anal sex with a woman "gay". Sexuality is so individual that it is difficult to generalize on what men or women want in general.
I don't see much point in sanitizing (and banalizing) straight sex by deflecting non-procreative perversions onto the gay "other". Hey, as long as people are willing, observe hygiene and sex-safe, there's nothing wrong. I think one problem is that the image of the wife has become attached to the "Madonna complex", and that men require other women to explore their "dirtier" desires. The squeamishness in marriage has even been addressed by some churches, who advice couples to spice things up. Perhaps one could paraphrase Woody Allen (and he should know), sex is only dirty if you're doing it right.

Originally posted by andy1033
I am on another board ta the mo, and you get the usual, gays are disgusting in threads. I wonder what is it about gays that really trouble straight males?

Is it
1) The idea that males, do not like female private parts?
2) The idea that males may fancy them in some way?
3) The insecurities in side themselves to protect there hetero feelings?

Personally i think alot of straight males, do not like the fact that absolute gay males, do not like female private parts. I really think thats the most important reason why straight males just do not like the idea of gays.

Alot of gays would find the idea of straight sex disgusting but no one ever says it, we just hear that gay sex is wrong, and disgusting. Looks like the majority runs the show, yeppy.

What do you guys think, about this, and whats the real, reason why you people think straight males hate gay males so much? Personally i think its no1, but of course there are lots of bi males, who can have sex with both males and females, but i am talking about all out gay males.

[edit on 10/28/2009 by andy1033]

I know 'GAYS' dont really like been lablled like this.

II also know that a straight male can be attracted to another male (I dont think in a sexual way) but that doesnt mean they want to have gay sex with them.

Intresting topic though.

It only frightens a straight male in the sense that he may:

have latent homosexual desires...

Question his masculinity

has been taught by fundamentalist that homosexuality is the chief sin.

I grew up fundamentalist and gays are parodied in much the same way that Jews and immigrants were done so by the Nazis. Many people grow up fearing any LGBT's until they actually meet one that has come out and actually get to know them.

Originally posted by FouL-LiveR
Straight Men are not fearful of gay men. Quite the opposite.

Straight men pride themselves, on who is the toughest, who is the alpha, who's in charge etc.

When they see a man, who is very submissive they gag a bit. It's against everything they stand for. They see it as a weakness.

Like giving up on life, to just bend over and submit to another man.

That's how straight men see gay men.

That is kind of an ironic point of view because their are a lot of men who claim to be straight but really have homosexual feelings and are not strong enough mentally or emotionally to deal with it.

Originally posted by Jezus
Top Five Republican Gay Sex Scandals
www.badmouth.net...

If you are full of hate for homosexuals, the evidence suggests you have a psychological problem, based on denying part of yourself.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Prof. Adams says his research shows that most homophobes "demonstrate significant sexual arousal to homosexual erotic stimuli", suggesting that homophobia is a form of "latent homosexuality where persons are either unaware of or deny their homosexual urges".
www.ipce.info...

In this clip, from the HBO documentary Middle Sexes: Redefining He and She, narrator Gore Vidal discusses a 1996 study on homophobia, which revealed that homophobic males were aroused by gay porn, while non-homophobes were not.
findingthefilth.blogspot.com...

Latham, who has spoken out against homosexuality, asked the officer to join him in his hotel room for oral sex
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...

For those who have not yet heard of Outrage, it's a documentary by Kirby Dick about closeted Republican hypocrites and the way their hypocrisy damages lives — not only their personal lives but the millions of gays and lesbians their homophobic policymaking affects.
www.towleroad.com...

Homophobes Love Gay Porn
www.feastoffun.com...

I am actually more shocked xD when I spoke about my friend that behaves like a gay man but isn't gay I said he was made fun of by students but a few days ago a teacher made fun of him.

So here(in portuguese) we have a word for gay to make fun like fag you know...

So the guy who makes fun of him said you're a fag, my friend replied fag? me? look at yourself, then the teacher replied in a funny tone I don't know who's the fag here! and looked at my friend (the one thats made fun of) . The whole class said - ohhh! because thats not supposed to come from a teachers mouth .
Really I just stayed with my mouth opened looking at my teacher and he noticed me... I was so disappointed.

Teachers here are dumb my math teacher doesn't like one of my friends. Once we were doing exercises on paper and my friend opened her book to do other exercises, my teacher noticed and Started screaming so my friend said I'm sorry, the teacher screamed even louder and said now you have done the mistake you cant be sorry and my friend insisted in saying sorry... etc the woman continued to scream so my friend said I dont have to take this I said im sorry and thats it! The woman ran angrily to her (i though that my friend was going to take a slap xD) and then she said that is it Surprise test! I couldnt be more offended because there were sick people that day missing school and they would be affected and thats when the teacher started ranting on me saying that Miss you dont need to worry about others now you have to worry about you! blah blah...
I just thought that in non mandatory school (is that the right word?) people would be open minded especially in the science field

Sorry for going off topic but i just had to speak out

[edit on 5-12-2009 by Danna]

Originally posted by halfoldman
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I heard the most frequent "ordinary use" of the vagina is excreting urine.
I suppose you mean to say that vaginas are for sex and bums for excreting. Therefore to you, anal sex is abhorent and unnatural. Yet urine is passed through the vagina and penis, and even the mouth can be used for vomiting. Thus, even sex for procreation involves the rubbing of excretory organs together.

I'm guessing you're a guy otherwise you would know what I'm about to explain already, and that's fine..
The vagina actually has 2 orifices, a smaller one just under the clitoris for urinating and the larger one (which is the one you are probably more familiar with) that is exclusively for sex and babies. It is only the penis that has a dual function. The bum doesn't have a dual function either - it's only for excretion - or should I say. it wasn't designed to have a dual purpose.