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posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by johnny2127

You have read my intentions correctly. The very nature of a Bureaucracy dooms it.

Thats why we must elect AIG next time so they can clean up after the government like they always do! Maybe show them how to make profit, create jobs and real freedom, with real jobs. I'm very convinced that government forced AIG to fail so that they could make AIG and BIG Business look bad.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:47 PM
The post office is a money wasting racket.

They make NO money on 1st class mail. It his barely being used by the average citizen today.

They make any money on 3rd class bulk rate mail also called junk mail.

Postal people could deliver all their 1st class mail in a couple of hours if they were not hauling around tons of junk mail daily.

Do you know thousands of postal workers are on disability at anyone time from back problems hauling junk mail around in their bags?

How much unrecycled paper ends up in the land fills from 3rd class junk mail?

Take all your junk mail and save it for one month.

Stack it in a corner and see how high the stack is.

Multiply that 12 times and then multiply that by all the addresses that also get that junk.

That is what a government worker does most of the day.

Delivers trash to your house.

And they want you to pay more for them to deliver this trash along with your 1st class mail.

What a scam.

All the federal health programs are riddled with fraud.

Strangely they are all products of Democratic administrations.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

It was based on the average life span at the time of creation, not how long people are living now.

The ONLY reason it is not insolvent now is all the illegals are paying into an entitlement they will never receive.

Cash for clunkers was a fraud and a joke.

Drive by any junk yard like pull your part and you will see them setting there with for sale signs and salvage titles.

Are children are all doomed.

They are teaching Mandarin in schools in Indiana preparing the next generation for the future.

But most Chinese speak Cantonese.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555

(unrelated, I also prefer fed ex over ups)

I picked the post office because it was the easiest one for me to clarify. Id you read my longer post a page or two back, you'll see we do disagree fundamentally on the role of what I consider to be an infrastructure. The very basic blocks of support for the common good.

It seems most of the things attacked on the email were things that have, even if in limited ways, actually benefited the people. Sure they cost money, but they help, and people need help sometimes. I can think of no better way to spend my tax money.

If my tax money goes to the betterment of society I am more pleased then when it goes to a banker on wall street. I believe we should help each other. The value of a society is weighed in the way we help those less fortunate around us.

The free business model is not producing the desired effect you really want either. perhaps there is a common ground here. A way to allow for society to reward entrepreneurship without leaving the vast majority of the workers behind.

Sabot are not just for feet my friend.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:51 PM
reply to post by Janky Red

The problem with mixing apples and oranges is it tastes like crap.

A Bank is a whole other issue. Regulation of Banks is one of those things that the government should be into. However with a completely corrupt government doing the regulation?

Everyone blames the banks. Truth is they were like children left in a candy store by a worthless baby sitter. The baby sitter, our government, shares equal blame. The banks were purposefully allowed to do what they did. Even encouraged to do it. My Partners Brother made a billion off a forty million dollar deal in 6 months and nobody is even looking his way. He broke no laws. He simply used the system provided to him by our illustrious government.

The problems with Capitalism are not with the Capitalists. It is those who make the rules that created this havoc. Ironically many of them were the same Democrats and Republicans that now scream for their heads.

No matter how you slice it, what happened was allowed to happen with full support and approval.

[edit on 10/29/2009 by Blaine91555]

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 02:54 PM
reply to post by calcoastseeker

So, your gonna send your birthday cards and post cards FED EX or UPS right?


posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:32 PM
reply to post by Seiko

I get what you are saying. That email I posted is way to simplistic and these issues are far more complex than just saying everyone should fend for themselves.

I lean towards Faith Based solutions when possible due to the superior way in which they are administrated. Not in all issues but in many cases we would be better off fending for ourselves from within our communities. Local is always better in my mind.

Where I think the system fails us is it is always trying to cover everyone instead of just helping those who need help. I think Social Security is in that mix.

Social Security though is an example of how a program that could of worked out well was destroyed by this damnable system were our leaders have to buy votes with their largess. It forces them to do things like robbing blind a program like Social Security. Had SS been treated as a private sector insurance with the incoming revenue largely untouchable we would all be singing its praises.

I suppose the truth lies in the middle as it always does. History will be the great decider but in this case it looks like we loose. When we loose our political viewpoints loose all their meaning. Sticking to this orchestrated war between the Right and Left considering our current situation only prove that is the plan all along. More smoke and mirrors.

When I look at this Health Care Reform issue, the trickery and deceit are so apparent I can't fathom how people can't see it.

Why not just help the 30 million who need help and leave what is working alone? At an average of $13,000 a year each they could be insured at a cost of 390 billion a year. The lie in this is obvious. Enact real Tort Reform. Break up the monopolies by opening all fifty States to all Insurers and sit back and watch the system fix itself at no cost to us.

The answer is simple in this case. This is not about helping people, it is about control. It is a systematic elimination of the best system we know to replace it with a system akin to that in 1984. If this is not Orwellian, I don't know what is.

We as a species do not thrive and prosper unless we have personal freedom. The USSR should have taught us that. We are being made fun of by those who lived under the old USSR right now for being so stupid.

I'm not an Grand Conspiracy by the Illuminati kind of guy but what is happening is damn close.

Attempting to tax our way to prosperity is such a ludicrous concept I know the people at the lead don't believe a word they are spewing. They and their supporters are hell bent on forcing their wants on everyone else. Some because they are control freaks. Others because they will profit. Even others because "Obama's going to send me a check"

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:45 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555

What if it could be proven that single payer health care would actually lower the deficit? What if it was the most effective way? Beyond that it would ease the burden off the poor,which is what I'm getting at here. A viable safety net for all of us regardless of our stature in society.

I bring this up because it's a relative point to this problem. You quote what would be considered a conservative solution. I have quoted a liberal one. Where the twain meet, is not the baucas bill.

The baucus bill is a monstrosity, it is overreaching, will cost too much, and would create a government bureaucracy the likes of which we have never seen. I don't know anyone personally that favors this bill. But this is what our government is selling us. It's all the msm can talk about.

You say let the market correct for the discrepancies. I say health care is a fundamental right of all people. Their answer is making us buy their insurance, without accounting for the discrepancies, or the burden it would create on those people who need it most. (simplified)

Who truly represents us? On either side of this basic two sided debate.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:52 PM
Many of you are missing the point of things as it stares you in the face. Some of you say, 'Why should the post office have to make money?' You're missing the point. Govt runs a mail delivery service; loses billions a year. Private sector are profitable. Private sector is more efficient, period. There is no motivator quite like, if you lose money you are out of business. Govt has no fear of waste or losses.

Govt basically starts everything with a set of intentions that many times are noble. But the govt is also the worst offender of the law of unintentional consequences.

Some of you say the cash for clunkers was a success. But you don't understand some economic terms. You see tremendous sales in August and say "Look the govt program worked!" Here's what you don't get: An economic term called 'pulled forward demand'. Basically this is when a govt program pulls future sales to the present through incentives. So the August sales were great, but an estimated 85% were sales from future months. So the govt just spent billions to get people to buy cars they were going to anyways, and to pad the pockets of foreign car makers. So for those of you saying your buddy that sells cars was happy, yes he was, for August. But the govt program just took most of his sales for the next year away from him.

For its part, GM said it had calculated that a total of 200,000 sales that would have occurred later were pulled into the clunkers sales period. Of those, it said, 70,000 would otherwise have been registered in September.


NEW YORK ( -- The end of the government's popular Cash for Clunkers program and low inventories of vehicles led to a 40% plunge in U.S. auto sales in September compared with August

Cash for Clunkers, which paid buyers up to $4,500 for their used cars when they purchased more fuel efficient models, spurred strong sales from late July through the end of the program on Aug. 24.

But it likely pulled ahead sales that might have taken place in September and left dealers with limited supplies of vehicles to sell coming into the fall. With low inventories, automakers also scaled back on incentive offers to buyers.


posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:53 PM
People trying to put the blame on Obama are just plain stupid. Yes, his ways of fixing the problem might not be optimal, but the current crysis has been CREATED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION!!

The crysis created under Bush's (and Greenspan's) lead were so bad, that Obama was left with a pile of # from the start. All he can do, is draw out the inevitable...

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:06 PM

Originally posted by MrXYZ
People trying to put the blame on Obama are just plain stupid. Yes, his ways of fixing the problem might not be optimal, but the current crysis has been CREATED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION!!

The crysis created under Bush's (and Greenspan's) lead were so bad, that Obama was left with a pile of # from the start. All he can do, is draw out the inevitable...

Just as its not all Obama's fault, it is not all Bush's either. Yes he bares some blame. But the mistakes of Bush have continued under Obama. Bush spent too much money, borrowed too much, bailed out the banks and gave money to the auto industry. Obama has continued this, but even worse. Both are terrible at managing taxpayer dollars and govt spending.

But this economic crisis has been coming for decades, and if there is any blame, it is on all of govt, not Bush, not Obama, not Democrats, not Republicans..... ALL OF THEM.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:14 PM

NEW YORK ( -- A total of 690,000 new vehicles were sold under the Cash for Clunkers program last summer, but only 125,000 of those were vehicles that would not have been sold anyway

The average rebate was $4,000. But the overwhelming majority of sales would have taken place anyway at some time in the last half of 2009, according to That means the government ended up spending about $24,000 each for those 125,000 additional vehicle sales.


posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:15 PM
I dont know everything, thats for sure.
But I do know that if these democrats and republicans have been in power for as long as they have been, and most have been in there several terms, and all of them get perks and such,
well it seems that they'd be looking after eachother pretty darn good despite which color their state was on the map.
Seems they'd have a vested interest in something a whole lot more important than what you or I believe to be important,
and none of it has to do with what's missing the most in government,
here or world wide, and that would be common sense.
Maybe if there was a plain ol simple COMMON SENSE PARTY
a whole lot of waste and failure, would fail to happen.

Its developed into such an octopus of mutant legislation that its just consuming everything, even itself.
Oh I believe it can be stopped peacefully, but sadly I dont believe that the attention span, willingness, and frankly, balls exist as a unified group to do it ......yet.
I was just sitting and thinking the other day..... what's the difference between the people that carried out our founding revolution, and the people that occupy our country, today.
I had what I thought were a few key differences, and I'm talking about the ones with boots on the ground, faces and hands in the action and in the mix.
1st thing that struck me was these founding fathers, as smart as they were, as involved as they were, as angry and rebellious as they were,
well they were the majority land owners, they had some wealth, they had influence and power, locally and within the colonies.
Sure now the commoners fought and participated as best they could, but the leaders were wealthy and or involved. The people of that time would listen to them, and not all of the population wanted to break from England.
This revolution wasnt an overwhelming majority rule but it did have participation and committment from the wealthy AND the poor.
TODAY common people still out number the wealthy just like back then, common people are struggling for just the basics, hell youre damn lucky to have a good paying job thats not in danger of getting shipped out of country, the common people are complaining and hurting now, and sure would like something done, but this time, there arent the wealthy fighting along side of you.
I'm not talking rich, or well to do, I'm talking wealthy
(theres a huge difference)
The wealthy founders had a focus on this land and this country, it might have been a self interest back then, (should and could be now too)
but the wealthy had a desire, it was passionate, it was organized, and in theory and common sense application, it was beneficial to all, in degrees but it benefited
TODAY the wealthy are not rooted to "here".
They have no country, they have interests, and those interests are everywhere.
The wealthy, that are quoted on the news and web giving their advise and predictions, are the same wealthy asking for your support and understanding and pity and bailouts, that can move factories wherever they want, adjust investments however they want, control interest and capital, costs and success and failure with any program their involved in.
You are not a commrade to them you are a commodity.
Now there may be a few in our government that have good intentions, a few who care.
But I'm afraid that task of finding them has become like finding fly crap in a pepper shaker..(good luck)
The wealthy, or our legislators should by design, BE that upper class involved body along with the common folk that continued that span and embrace that originally launched our nation, the chain of commonality of shared purpose and benefit.
That chain... has been broken for quite some time, sure they come around during elections and make loud promises and feel your pain and kiss your babies and act mad as hell, and yeah they get all teary eyed and wave the flag and play on your patriotism and emotion as they recruit you to join them in their next war on an enemy they created, because profits are down.... but theyre not there, to be there, for you.
This time, the entire emotional and passionate fire that needs to burn to make the furnace hot enough to forge the link, to repair the chain, to restore our nation to its waiting framework, to return to its constitution,
this time the fire will have to come only from the common people.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:58 PM
keep in mind that Obama is just a puppet.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:00 PM
reply to post by rygi23

This isn't about Obama........... its about the govt's inability to run any program without it failing. That encompasses all political parties.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Quazze
I love visual interpretations (seriously). Thank you for sharing!

On a side note, regarding how we can change our government and/or the world, the answer is as follows:

YOU can't do a single thing! YOU are slave to the cause! YOU will continue to follow their rules and regulations! YOU will continue to celebrate birthdays, Christmases and Halloweens! YOU will (hopefully) live a long and fruitful life .... then YOU will die!

Obey and YOU shall continue to breathe. There will never be nothing YOU can do to change what is and will be.

Love the Masonic triangle avatar. And the way YOU use the word YOU to try and brainwash people.

Three laughs, the masonic trifecta!! What you can do is stop paying taxes, reclaim your strawman identitity so the Elite and government have NO POWER over YOU. We must redeem our strawman and ignore EVERYTHING the Federal and State governments tell us, ALL POLITICAL POWER IS INHERENT IN THE PEOPLE. WE must exercise that power. Stop saying okay, SAY NO.

Call your reps everyday and hassle them and their interns. WHY do they even have interns? Protege's maybe? Stop the bullcrap.

Again, it has been posted here many times, JUST SAY NO. Turn off the tele and talk to your neighbors and get together and take back city hall and the "police", actually read "corporate security guard", PUBLIC SERVANTS.

See that is the problem, if we are all "strawmen", then there IS no public and they then serve the establishment.

Every sovereign human being is responsible for his/her own perceptions and interpretations of anything and everything. This article represents my current perception and interpretation of the issues discussed. As always I cannot, do not, and will not tell anyone what to do. Those who do not think that stasis will occur soon or at all may want to give these matters particular consideration because they appear to have profound effect on human life on Urantia today. They also offer a sound explanation for why the matrix is as it is. But if you are tempted to act on (as distinct from just understanding) the information about the Strawman I recommend a reading of Mary Croft’s article ‘Authority Hoax II – “the Trust Account” and “the Solution” at: before you do.

Its often said that there are none so blind as those who will not see. Untold millions of unconscious men and women do not wish to see life on Urantia today as it truly is. That refusal by million of humans to take responsibility for their inner peace keeps the matrix illusion in place.

The rationale for free range wage-slave workers was spelt out in the Hazard circular sent by London banksters to US banksters in July 1862, in the middle of the American Civil War. It said:

`Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power and chattels slavery destroyed. This I and my European friends are in favor of, for slavery is but the owning of labor and carries with it the care of the laborers, while the European plan, led by England, is that capital [the banksters] shall control labor by controlling wages. This can be done by controlling the money. The great debt (national) that capitalists will see to it is made out of the war, must be used as a means to control the volume of money. To accomplish this the war bonds must be used as a banking basis. We are now waiting for the Secretary of the Treasury to make this recommendation to Congress.'

The US Congress passed the National Bank Act of 1863 giving the banksters power to create money as debt, but not exclusively. In 1872 Horace Greeley said of the Act:

`We have stricken the shackles from four million beings and brought all laborers to a common level, not so much by the elevation of the former slaves as by practically reducing the whole working population, white and black, to a condition of serfdom. While boasting of our noble deeds we are careful to conceal the ugly fact that by our iniquitous money system we have nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined, is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery.'

This is why the original 13th amendment to the Constitution was removed and replaced, to Nationalize Slavery.

STOP PAYING TAXES, it's that simple, let's start this revolution and get it over with so we can be FREE again, like they were 200 years ago. I know the first revolution was longer ago than that, but the people were free until about 1835. Round off numbers you know. Fire all congresspeople and put in some honest ones, if you can find them, and stop lobbyist from EVER existing AGAIN!!

[edit on 29-10-2009 by daddio]

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Failure it not a problem when it is a part of an overall strategy to grow government through greater dependence on government.

It has been an ongoing agenda for decades, from the power-grabbing extreme left Washington elite, special interests and lobbyists your message does not expose failure, it highlights a successful plan to grow government.

Don't be fooled into believing you can stop them now, you can't.

The final phase of this plan will usher in global governance, a real new world order.

The US economy and government are being systematically broken down and reorganized to better fit within the "world model"

Failure or success are simply a matter of perspective.

Well if we can't stop 'em then we're at least going to give 'em hell trying.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:11 PM
reply to post by daddio

I would watch encouraging people not to pay taxes. That is actually illegal. There are many people in jail for encouraging people not to pay taxes. Protest all you like, but I would encourage you not to break the law or encourage others to break the law.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:45 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555
You have taken quit a beating and stayed with it Blaine but you can't fight "like minded" people.You see all the things that Obama has or has not done is totally ok with the "like minders".If Obama is looking to usher the U.S. into the NWO then they are all behind it.

There is no more wakeing people up,there is only the Obama lakies and the people who want to try and save this country and its freedom.This health care retoric is a ruse to cover the ture agenda.Whats the true agenda,I have ideas like lots of others and like all the perdictions on ATS we will all know about the same time,after its to late.

Keep up the good fight Blaine,the Obama followers have to have someone to beat up on or they will turn on each Congress.Not such a bad thing now that I think about it.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:53 PM
reply to post by johnny2127
I don't know how you can say this is not about Obama after I read your signature,the people Obama has surrounded himself with makes him look as low as a politician can go without admitting who he really is and what he is really about.

At least to me,maybe you see it differently.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by johnny2127
I don't know how you can say this is not about Obama after I read your signature,the people Obama has surrounded himself with makes him look as low as a politician can go without admitting who he really is and what he is really about.

At least to me,maybe you see it differently.

I agree about the people surrounding Obame. I do not support Obama. What I was saying was the commentary about not trusting govt to run programs such as these, is not about Obama. I don't trust programs to be run under Republicans or Democrats. They all are wasteful and inefficient. Obama has just accelerated what was already happening. Yes those efforts should be fought, but govt programs were failing long before him too.

Giving govt control over these programs is like giving an alcoholic with multiple DUI's a nice bottle of scotch and a Ferrari to look after and asking them not to abuse it.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by johnny2127]

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