100% Failure Rate

Do you have a source to support your claim that the post office only survives by taxpayer money?


Also the post office is facing decreased revenue, and has to scale back. I don't see scaling back as a fail, it makes fiscal sense in a shrinking market.

reply to post by Blaine91555

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well, you are 100% wrong, each one of those worked. but, i have gotten tired of explaining to people, that just make things up to get a reaction. i do not like dealing with lazy-minded people.

reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios

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That is great those accomplishments, but you did not get to where you are

today thru socialism it was capitalism and free enterprise? Why is it you have to

lower yourself to demeaning someone with a different opinion and put yourself

on a pedestal and tell everyone how great you are and how little you think they

are in society. You have no idea who you are talking to and why revert to such

character assassination when you are loosing the argument. ^Y^



[edit on 28-10-2009 by amari]

my wife worked for the post office for 31 years as a supervisor. there were years that they made money, but they were not allowed to keep it or use the extra for upgrades,,,by law they had to turn over every dollar of profit to the federal goverment. but when they fell short, the federal government have to give them more money... and only then is when you heard about how inefficient they were and what a waste of taxpayer money they were. it was all a crock of B*LLSH*T, and republicans were the first and loudest whiners. so, if you hear about some type of government program that should be handled by private business...look at health care insurance companies, or try and imagine FED EX delivering your regular mail and how much that would cost you. or private water companies, and look how much they charge...and if you look close enough, they will all have some rich republican behind it trying to squeeze an extra buck out of you.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by jimmyx]

[edit on 28-10-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by Seiko

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First, I did not say that.

When the post office suffers a deficit as they do most years, they are subsidized by taxpayer money.



Because of this they need not worry about going bankrupt and that removes incentive to be profitable. Waste is a huge issue here. Did you know thousands of Carriers stand around on call at full pay every day just in case they need them. No business would ever attempt that. It would be instant bankruptcy.

Any business with the same record would have gone under long ago. That is why business can never compete with the government in any way. A business can not simply raise taxes or borrow more than they are worth as the government does routinely. The government simply raises revenue through taxes, fee's or other methods or they borrow or even print money lowering the value of every dollar out there.

The dollar is failing now in part because the printers are running. Every dollar they print reduces the value of every dollar you have in effect taxing you by reducing the value of the money you have.

Click on that link to the debt clock I posted if you want to be really scared for our future. Run the numbers through your head and realize what they truly mean.

reply to post by jimmyx

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That was an email sent to my Wife and I did not write it. You did not read it.

They did not however work. You need to stop repeating what you have been spoon-fed and do some research. You are trying to get around facts and are using Party talking points which are bald faced lies.

The fact the US is ready to loose its credit rating means you will be living in a Third World Country in as little as 3 years.

reply to post by Blaine91555

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I hate to repeat myself with this quote, but can you disprove it? You are stating they are subsidized by taxpayer money. The spokesman says they are not.

I think you're splitting hairs on this one.

The post office is not a for profit traded company, they are a government regulated one. They are not required to turn profits. I am certain there is waste there, but I'm saying I see no fail.

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another." George Washington on the Party System.



Whoa, I know its generally a hard thing for people to listen to there fathers, but maybe..... Just maybe he's got something here.

reply to post by amari

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You know, you're right. I shouldn't be arrogant. The truth is, my accomplishments are menial in the grand scale of things and are no reason to think myself better than any others. But if you read the posts previous to my outburst you'd know that the only times I brought my personal history into the argument is when my work ethic was questioned based on my own politics. When I say I believe in one thing, and the response is ... "you must be part of the entitlement crowd" or "you can take naps because you don't work for a living and think the rich people should pay for everything," then my history and personal story become very important to me. Maybe it sounded like bragging and arrogance, and for that, I'm sorry. But I'm not really used to letting random people question my integrity because of the anonymity of the net, especially on ATS...they can question my reasons, my politics, my arguments, my authority, my conclusions, my sanity, or my sincerity,.... but not my integrity, honesty, or work ethic. What I write is who I am and what I think... not what anyone else told me to think... and to question my work ethic because of my politics is tantamount to questioning my integrity. I'm sorry if my success story offends some or sounds braggadocios, it was not my intent.

edit to add: please learn to spell "losing" and "lose" it's kind of a pet peeve. loosing and loose mean completely different things than what you think. Oh crap... I guess that makes me look arrogant again. Sorry.

Peace
-AAH

[edit on 29-10-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

reply to post by Blaine91555

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Social Security was only to last to 1 yr after the end of WW2. Congress saw it as a "Cash Cow" and continued it beyond it, then they robbed it and replaced the funds within it with IOU's. You pay into it, but only get a small portion of it back.

If congress wants to fund something, perhaps they would stop sending our money to foreign governments and stop funding the war on drugs (talk about a bottomless pit ..... Gazillions of dollars spent on it over 60 years and we still have the problem).

I think its ammusing that you are suprised by any of this. Surely you are fully aware that anyone capable of attaining high office, has surely been corrupted by the system to the point of moral debasement, and therefore is incapable of performing exemplary public service? Surely you realise that the only reason your nation is a democracy , is purely down to how your government prefers to screw your people ?
Its the same in every developed nation, theres always a scam, usualy several , and none of them are actualy designed to help you. Sure some of the better ones have some positive results attatched to them, but only for the lucky few.
The idea that the people have the power is an absolute LIE . The people with power have power, and those without have none. All you get to do , is choose who screws you next, you dont even get to choose how, because government officials , political parties and movements, are not, and maybe cannot be held accountable for thier failures, because THEY write the law, and when it threatens them , they change it.
Its bunkum for anyone to think that they live in a civilised and truely democratic situation. All the suits are tyrants, and all the paupers pawns, and while thats the way of it, theres no way out.
Hope that doesnt give you all indigestion.

reply to post by Blaine91555

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Excellent post

Although let me just say that I think Obama is the smoke and Biden is the mirrors, just like Bush/Cheney

whats the one thing missing from all of this

the one thing that causes all of the problems in our society

oh yea the drug war

but my post will be deleted or edited because we cant talk about that here on ats

yet if there was one thing that affects every single americans daily activities

that would be the one

that is the one that has cost us the most freedoms

thats the one that has cost us the most money

thats the one that incarcerates the most people and ruins the most lives

thats the one that allows corruption and illegal entities to operate and make money

but here on ats we cant talk about that

so lets just focus on all the things that have been effected by it, like everything in the opening post and all ponder why things are so crappy

They have failed because some "High Ups" want it to fail. It's all failure by design. We are their slaves and they would not have it any other way. We could kick them all out, but the new reps would do as they are told as well. There will be blood...

reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability

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How is Obama worse??
Let me count the ways.. First of all WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE MAN, HE HAS HIS ENTIRE PAST INCLUDING HIS BIRTH RECORDS HIDDEN, SEALED OR ERASED.

THAT PRETTY MUCH DOES IT FOR ME. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED HE IS A COMMUNIST MUSLIM PLANT INTENT ON DESTROYING THE U.S. AND HE IS SO FAR DOING A GOOD JOB OF THE DESTRUCTION.

reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability

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What the heck does Bush have to do with this? Why is it when a liberal has nothing to say, they always resort to Bush bashing. HE IS NOT IN OFFICE ANYMORE!!!!!!!!! HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLO, holy crap is that all you people have to say, it is like a broken record.
If you have a head on your shoulders you would know that obama did make those promises......and hasn't kept them.
So you think it is okay for bills to be passed that the people can't read. You trust in government that much that you are okay with that? Well, most people want to read and have a right to read what rule and law they are going to have to live with.
If you don't care it is probably because you are one of the low lifes that want to take from other people to satisfy yourself. Try getting off your ass and working for yourself instead of expecting it from all the other people that work hard.

reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios

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Sorry buddy but you are confused. The OP is saying all of the programs are failures due to how they have been fiscally run and all are set to become financially insolvent. Your argument back is about the intentions of the programs, and given their intentions they are not failures. You are missing the point. Due to how govt has managed these programs, they all are set to go broke and become insolvent. In case you don't know what that means, that means that they're at that point where there won't be a funding source sufficient to cover the program. So then they either need to eliminate the program, cut back on the program, or find more funding. Problem of course is that the only way to find more funding is to increase taxes, which then pulls more money out of the economy and hurts it further. This then causes more unemployment, more need for govt programs, and the problem gets worse and worse.

Yes, the post office is going broke and has received govt money and needs more:
Source

Medicare is scheduled to become insolvent:
Source

Yes Social Security is going insolvent also:
Source

Cash for clunkers was a failure because it turned into a US Govt bailout of foreign car makers:
Source 1
Source 2

So while you are quick to defend the intent of these programs which most can agree with, you fail to consider the manner in which they are run. The issue the OP brings up is that govt has failed financially at running every program. And given that these failures are now coming due, the same level of services they have provided is soon not going to be possible anymore. This is not rhetoric. I posted the evidence. It is not biased. These are the govt numbers, which if anything means things are actually worse than that. Govt cannot be trusted to run programs anymore.


[edit on 29-10-2009 by johnny2127]

reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability

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If you are canadian why are you butting in to something you have no clue about. Why don't you worry about your own country and how screwed up it is and we will debate and worry about our own.

I have read all the posts to this point in the thread.
I can honestly say I relate to and agree with nearly all of the information being shared by both sides.
My thoughts on the "failure" label, are that Yes, I would agree that once compromised from their original intent, and accessed for their revenue, and once their pupose, their focus to their respective tasks became altered, parts within their design failed.
Length of dependence on select "assistance" programs became more of a way of life than a temporary aid.
Programs were "changed" allowing access to funds to be used for non original non intended purposes.
Failure, became them.
Their origins obviously came from a genuine need,
their failures came from obvious greed.
Addressing "only" the services and programs respective success or failures
,it could be concluded that a percentage of the intended population benefited AS designed, and a percentage of the unintended population benefited BY design.
Although an unpopular opinion, when ultimately looking for the cause of any failure or success, the final responsibility rests squarely on the collective, or lack thereof....."WE THE PEOPLE"

[edit on 29-10-2009 by HappilyEverAfter]

I understand that such legislation as Glass-Steagall (1 & 2, 1932-33 respectively), FDIC established and regulations implimented such as12 U.S.C. 371a by Reg. Q; 12 CFR part 217, were to control deflation; speculation; blah blah...,
But with the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act - (1980) and Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act - (1999), The 1987 CRS argument notwithstanding, pretty much blew a hole wide open for speculation, and of course the "exotic" or by another name, "toxic" securities, CDO's SIV's, insured and sold as "Low-Risk" AAA rated "bundles"; Almost like a bundle of seasoned firewood, i.e. - burns slow, creates intense heat as the embers, or "Bubble" radiate to all present, then, not-so-slowly die leaving behind soot and ash, "Bubble Burst", as the pyramid ponsi scheme top rung profiteers high-tail it from the crime scene, knowing all-the-while, the ARMs and more "exotic" instruments and doctored applications are cookie cut, assembly line style with creative abridgments as "NINJA" and as the Regulators blind-eye their mandates, and few Hedge funds are cherry-picked, the sub-prime bubble explodes and with regulations gone or ignored, toxic derivatives, which are heavily wagered deplete the insurers (yes they too have creative abridged acronyms), and the 100% loans and second mortgages to cover the down payments mature, ballooning the variable rates to an unmanagable higher rate begin a default-fest in homes.

Ninja, Arm or other, the rats scramble as another ponzi scheme unfolds....TARP.
Against constituents overwhelming objection, the spineless congress succumbs to the whims of the Treasury, run by ex-CEO's and FED officers who in any definition are conflicted with interests in the same criminal organizations that financially raped the private investments which, once secure, were now being accessed and tossed into high-risk speculative stocks, and suprisingly, when the losses mounted, not a soul went head hunting for the perpetrators of this S&L to the 1000th Power of a theft. As if this wasn't enough, the whole Coven of warlocks and their kind in a frenzy akin to a shark feeding feverishly once tasting fresh blood, attacked and did pilfer the Treasury with repercussions consistent at a staggering 0%.

As the now funded TARP was granted to Treasury Sec. Paulsion, the lack of specification allowed once again these birds of a feather to allocate billions, (although we know trillions) to their counterparts domestic and abroad, as the sub-prime default smowball increased exponentially, now including other lower risk loans because as this monster accelerates, it takes Jobs and ultimately more homes with it, back to the lenders and away from the herd, leaving the financial criminal elements, (which are legion), with the cash and the properties, and the now defunked home owners with a tent in a church parking lot or under an overpass.

All of this aside; the rewarding failure on a massive scale never before seen, the disregard of regulators, Attorney's General and the FED - Treasury - Administration trinity taking RECO and urinating on it with visions that it were the Constitution, excitedly admired the gold and platinum toiletries glistening before them, and with a shake of finality, went a-banking offshore, and readied the now despaired populus for the second bailout and the second coming of crist in the form of an usurper, meticulously groomed for the task of leading the stubborn U.S. to the cliff of sovereign surrender, is not an issue I care to address.

Rather, none of this treachery ruffles my feathers in comparison to the one point, and fault of these God-Complexed self adoring psychopaths.

What gets me is, well here's a snippet...


Source:

Now you see, these vermin did this to the majority of Americans, and as I have discovered through a bit more reading, the Canadians as well...I'm sure pretty much world wide,

ANd here is my beef.

These cur-throat thieves stole half of MY MOTHER's nest-egg, (as well as many others I know), and now, it's personal.

Any punk-ass Beeyatch that comes and steals half of my mothers retirement now needs to explain to me why I should not come and throw them into the sticker bushes and shake them upside down until the missing funds are rightfully returned.

I know one little bull like me can't get an even shake or get one of these back stabbers to man up and address me face to face, so I am left with no alternative than to begin my one-man campaign of contacting the representatives that abandonded rightousness for special interest funders and drop prostrate boot-licking their counterparts in Administrative and Judicial divisions of Government.

The Cap and Trade, Global Warming lie is another of an ongoing compulsion of these chronic liars, and I'm sure they won't be happy until they destroy this country, it's inhabitants along with themselves in their never-ending quest for integrity and common sense.

Thanks for listening,
I'm off to start my list of phone numbers and addresses to contact my Senators, Representatives and POTUS, et al.