It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by anti72
here´s a great docu of a researcher who investigated the building of the great pyramid in giza.
one of the few unspeculative and scientific documentations.
his theory is about the possibillity of an internal ramp to get the stones towards the pyramid and the great chamber and hallway of beeing a specious constructive building.
A radical new idea has recently been presented by Jean-Pierre Houdin, a French architect who has devoted the last seven years of his life to making detailed computer models of the Great Pyramid. Using start-of-the-art 3-D software developed by Dassault Systemes, combined with an initial suggestion of Henri Houdin, his engineer father, the architect has concluded that a ramp was indeed used to raise the blocks to the top, and that the ramp still exists--inside the pyramid!
The theory suggests that for the bottom third of the pyramid, the blocks were hauled up a straight, external ramp. This ramp was far shorter than the one needed to reach the top, and was made of limestone blocks, slightly smaller than those used to build the bottom third of the pyramid.
As the bottom of the pyramid was being built via the external ramp, a second ramp was being built, inside the pyramid, on which the blocks for the top two-thirds of the pyramid would be hauled. The internal ramp, according to Houdin, begins at the bottom, is about 6 feet wide, and has a grade of approximately 7 percent. This ramp was put into use after the lower third of the pyramid was completed and the external ramp had served its purpose.
The design of the internal ramp was partially determined by the design of the interior of the pyramid. Hemienu knew all about the problems encountered by Pharaoh Sneferu, his and Khufu's father. Sneferu had considerable difficulty building a suitable pyramid for his burial, and ended up having to construct three at sites south of Giza! The first, at Meidum, may have had structural problems and was never used.
His second, at Dashur--known as the Bent Pyramid because the slope of its sides changes midway up--developed cracks in the walls of its burial chamber. Huge cedar logs from Lebanon had to be wedged between the walls to keep the pyramid from collapsing inward, but it too was abandoned. There must have been a mad scramble to complete Sneferu's third and successful pyramid, the distinctively colored Red Pyramid at Dashur, before the aging ruler died.
From the beginning, Hemienu planned three burial chambers to ensure that whenever Khufu died, a burial place would be ready. One was carved out of the bedrock beneath the pyramid at the beginning of its construction. In case the pharaoh had died early, this would have been his tomb. When, after about five years, Khufu was still alive and well, the unfinished underground burial chamber was abandoned and the second burial chamber, commonly called the Queen's Chamber, was begun.
Some time around the fifteenth year of construction Khufu was still healthy and this chamber was abandoned unfinished and the last burial chamber, the King's Chamber, was built higher up--in the center of the pyramid. (To this day, Khufu's sarcophagus remains inside the King's Chamber, so early explorers of the pyramid incorrectly assumed that the second chamber had been for his queen.)
Huge granite and limestone blocks were needed for the roof beams and rafters of the Queen's and King's Chambers. Some of these beams weigh more than 60 tons and are far too large to have been brought up through the internal ramp. Thus the external ramp had to remain in use until the large blocks were hauled up. Once that was done, the external ramp was dismantled and its blocks were led up the pyramid via the internal ramp to build the top two-thirds of the pyramid. Perhaps most blocks in this portion of the pyramid are smaller than those at the bottom third because they had to move up the narrow internal ramp.
There were several considerations that went into designing the internal ramp. First, it had to be fashioned very precisely so that it didn't hit the chambers or the internal passageways that connect them. Second, men hauling heavy blocks of stones up a narrow ramp can't easily turn a 90-degree corner; they need a place ahead of the block to stand and pull. The internal ramp had to provide a means of turning its corners so, Houdin suggests, the ramp had openings there where a simple crane could be used to turn the blocks.
There are plenty of theories about how the Great Pyramid could have been built that lack evidence. Is the internal ramp theory any different? Is there any evidence to support it? Yes.
A bit of evidence appears to be one of the ramp's corner notches used for turning blocks. It is two-thirds of the way up the northeast corner--precisely at a point where Houdin predicted there would be one. Furthermore, in 1986 a member of a French team that was surveying the pyramid reported seeing a desert fox enter it through a hole next to the notch, suggesting that there is an open area close to it, perhaps the ramp. It seems improbable that the fox climbed more than halfway up the pyramid. More likely there is some undetected crevice toward the bottom where the fox entered the ramp and then made its way up the ramp and exited near the notch. It would be interesting to attach a telemetric device to a fox and send him into the hole to monitor his movements! The notch is suggestive, but there is another bit of evidence supplied by the French mentioned earlier that is far more compelling.
A microgravimetry survey of the Great Pyramid in the 1980s yielded the enigmatic image at right. Less dense areas (indicated in green) seem to correspond to an internal ramp proposed by Jean-Pierre Houdin (diagram). (Dassault Systemes; Courtesy EDF)
When the French team surveyed the Great Pyramid, they used microgravimetry, a technique that enabled them to measure the density of different sections of the pyramid, thus detecting hidden chambers. The French team concluded that there were no large hidden chambers inside it. If there was a ramp inside the pyramid, shouldn't the French have detected it? In 2000, Henri Houdin was presenting this theory at a scientific conference where one of the members of the 1986 French team was present. He mentioned to Houdin that their computer analysis of the pyramid did yield one curious image, something they couldn't interpret and therefore ignored.
That image showed exactly what Jean-Pierre Houdin's theory had predicted--a ramp spiraling up through the pyramid.
Far from being just another theory, the internal ramp has considerable evidence behind it. A team headed by Jean-Pierre Houdin and Rainer Stadlemann, former director of the German Archaeological Institute in Cairo and one of the greatest authorities on pyramids, has submitted an application to survey the Great Pyramid in a nondestructive way to see if the theory can be confirmed.
They are hopeful that the Supreme Council of Antiquities will grant permission for a survey. (Several methods could be used, including powerful microgravimetry, high-resolution infrared photography, or even sonar.) If so, sometime this year we may finally know how Khufu's monumental tomb was built. One day, if it is indeed there, we might just be able to remove a few blocks from the exterior of the pyramid and walk up the mile-long ramp Hemienu left hidden within the Great Pyramid.
Originally posted by anti72
forget about Erich von Däniken and his alien´friends´.
Originally posted by anti72
forget about Erich von Däniken and his alien´friends´.
Originally posted by anti72
well, as far as I see, this is a MUCH more resonable and proofable theory than...aliens..
Originally posted by PhotonEffect
Hey, here's some guys (at least 30 of 'em) trying to pull a 25 ton block of stone, hehe...
(I've included brief captions to each picture which are taken from the NOVA site- italicized portion)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1bcd6ab5b78.jpg[/atsimg]
Modern-day builders would employ a crane and a flatbed truck to move a heavy stone like this one. But an ancient Egyptian relief painting shows long lines of men pulling a monumental stone across land. The NOVA team, .... , rely heavily on the same energy the pharaoh's engineers employed: the collective power of human muscle.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/808b4139e386.jpg[/atsimg]
To reduce drag and ease movement, a team member smears animal fat onto a wooden runner in the track along which workers will pull the 25-ton stone. Ancient Egyptians might have used slick wet clay to accomplish the same thing.
..........
Now here's the fun part...hehe.. there are about 32 (give or take that can be seen in the picture) men pulling those ropes...
..........
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b673b113dbc.jpg[/atsimg]
At first the ropes stretch, and the stone refuses to move. Then stonemason Roger Hopkins climbs atop the stone and chants "God is great!" in Arabic to coordinate the timing of the pulls and to inspire the men. Exerting a tremendous effort, the men drag the stone a mere 20 feet.
Man that looks tough...So it took shouts of "God is great!" to get the 30 or so men to pull this stone only 20 feet. Of course we all know the Egyptians weren't Muslim back then. So what was their motivational force?
Also there are a couple of details missing which have not been provided by the NOVA team:
-They didn't mention how many men were actually used.
-They don't mention how long it actually took to move that stone.
-Although they mention they barely moved it 20 feet, they don't say if that was the total distance that was attempted...
Now multiply that one stone by a few million. 2, 5, 10, 25, 75 ,100 tons....whatever
www.pbs.org...
[edit on 11-4-2008 by PhotonEffect]
Originally posted by Matyas
Seriously, you underestimate the strength of human will and the ingenuity of our ancestors.
Modern scholars have favored these two original theories, but deep in their hearts, they know that neither one is correct. A radical new one, however, may provide the solution. If correct, it would demonstrate a level of planning by Egyptian architects and engineers far greater than anything ever imagined before.
Originally posted by spacevisitor
Originally posted by Matyas
Seriously, you underestimate the strength of human will and the ingenuity of our ancestors.
Why, because I cannot believe that they have done that by using those uphill ramps?
Would you be so kind to tell me how you think they have transported those blocks around the corners?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2cb2fbfd84ab.jpg[/atsimg]
And this is how the modern scholars themselves think about the ramp theories so far, so would the internal ramp theory make any difference?
Modern scholars have favored these two original theories, but deep in their hearts, they know that neither one is correct. A radical new one, however, may provide the solution. If correct, it would demonstrate a level of planning by Egyptian architects and engineers far greater than anything ever imagined before.
www.archaeology.org...
Originally posted by anti72
I DONT KNOW if they really used those ramps, but its a likely theory for me. even the porpuse and constrution of the great gallery could THEORETICALLY be exoplained. thats not bad..
what are your reasons of believing ALIENS build it? are there any?
(by the way, Däniken wrote his books for commercial reasons, he was a broken and creative hotelier. and no proof of ALIENS)
[edit on 29-10-2009 by anti72]
Originally posted by anti72
(by the way, Däniken wrote his books for commercial reasons, he was a broken and creative hotelier. and no proof of ALIENS)
Originally posted by spacevisitor
Originally posted by anti72
I DONT KNOW if they really used those ramps, but its a likely theory for me. even the porpuse and constrution of the great gallery could THEORETICALLY be exoplained. thats not bad..
what are your reasons of believing ALIENS build it? are there any?
(by the way, Däniken wrote his books for commercial reasons, he was a broken and creative hotelier. and no proof of ALIENS)
[edit on 29-10-2009 by anti72]
Where did I said in this thread that I believe the Aliens did it?
The, due some surfing, I stumbled on this site with yet another theory about how to get those stones uphill.
www.cheops-pyramide.ch...
And at the same site you find some thoughts and drawings about the difficulties that would arise by using ramps.
www.cheops-pyramide.ch...
(Q) What was the date of the actual beginning and ending of the construction of the Great Pyramid?
(A) Was one hundred years in construction. Begun and completed in the period of Araaraart's time, with Hermes and Ra.
8. (Q) What was the date B.C. of that period?
(A) 10,490 to 10,390 before the Prince entered into Egypt.
..
16. (Q) How was this particular Great Pyramid of Gizeh built?
(A) By the use of those forces in nature as make for iron to swim. Stone floats in the air in the same manner. This will be discovered in '58.
Originally posted by spacevisitor
Originally posted by anti72
well, as far as I see, this is a MUCH more resonable and proofable theory than...aliens..
Do you really think that this is a MUCH more resonable and proofable theory.
Suppose that the Egyptians where able to transport even those blocks uphill the ramp by pulling them forward with ropes on perhaps wooden runners [for as far they don't were crushed by the weight] and by pushing them at the same time.
Then that would be a more magic like achievement in my opinon?
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
How about a really radical theory...not runners, but rollers.
Just shy of magic, I know...way out there...
Originally posted by PhotonEffect
Hey, here's some guys (at least 30 of 'em) trying to pull a 25 ton block of stone, hehe...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1bcd6ab5b78.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/808b4139e386.jpg[/atsimg]
Now here's the fun part...hehe.. there are about 32 (give or take that can be seen in the picture) men pulling those ropes...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b673b113dbc.jpg[/atsimg]
At first the ropes stretch, and the stone refuses to move. Then stonemason Roger Hopkins climbs atop the stone and chants "God is great!" in Arabic to coordinate the timing of the pulls and to inspire the men. Exerting a tremendous effort, the men drag the stone a mere 20 feet.
Also there are a couple of details missing which have not been provided by the NOVA team:
-They didn't mention how many men were actually used.
-They don't mention how long it actually took to move that stone.
-Although they mention they barely moved it 20 feet, they don't say if that was the total distance that was attempted...
www.pbs.org...
Originally posted by Supernatural
The problem is the Egyptians couldn't have quarried, carved, transported and built the pyramid in the given time limit. A Japanese team in the 70's failed miserably.
Originally posted by spacevisitor
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
How about a really radical theory...not runners, but rollers.
Just shy of magic, I know...way out there...
Looks a bit difficult to me, because when you pull let say a 25 ton block as in PhotonEffect's case here, with a group of people uphill an 7 or 8 percent slope on rollers, you can’t have one second of rest to recuperate a bit, because when you stop the pulling it would rolled back again.
Or you must have a way to block that.
That would be even more difficult for the 60 or 80 tons blocks.
Originally posted by jimwz
Here is a 3D animation site of his theory
khufu.3ds.com...