Eating Animals is Making us Sick

dudes hung up on gout, when the real problems are cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and stuff.
its dead animals man, its gross.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


It seems all you can do is deflect. HFCS is bad? ok. So is meat. Show me the proof that meat doesn't cause gout. While your at it show me the proof that humans can even fully digest meat.

A ketogenic diet impairs the ability of the kidney to excrete uric acid, due to competition for transport between uric acid and ketones

Lets not forget that.

You can post bogus study after bogus study, make every claim in the book. Its not gonna change the fact that humans can't properly break down meat.

You can keep on deflecting as to why cancer, heart disease and a whole host of other diseases are so prevalent. I'm sure it has nothing to do with our overwhelming increase in meat consumption. I won't disagree with the fact that cooked grains are also part of the problem but cooked grains aren't the only source of carbs


I'm done with this argument at this point because every point i bring up is deflected with baloney about cooked grains. I fully agree with you on all points when it comes to that poison.

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER

its dead animals man, its gross.

Its extremely gross.

Lets bring up one more point. Humans aren't born with stoves attached to there back. Raw meat is pretty much unpalatable and is in no way tempting to eat unless your about to die from starvation.

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER
dudes hung up on gout, when the real problems are cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and stuff.
its dead animals man, its gross.

If you used your brain to think, instead of flaming, you might realize that everything you listed, including Gout and Obesity, is almost always present in individuals concurrently.

This observation suggests a similar cause.

If you don't have anything of value to add then don't post in this thread. Take your flame war elsewhere.

-Dev

Originally posted by Rawhemp
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

It seems all you can do is deflect. HFCS is bad? ok. So is meat. Show me the proof that meat doesn't cause gout.

How am I deflecting? You keep saying meat is so bad and yet you haven't provided one study of significance or physiological/biochemical processes to support your idea.

I'm not saying that meat isn't contributing to the formation of hyperuricemia. I am, however, saying that without the presence of high insulin levels the kidneys can extract any uric acid before it can contribute to the formation of crystals in the joints. And yes, I do understand that ketogenic diets, to some extent, inhibit the body's ability to excrete uric acid.

The point is, fructose and glucose both contribute to gout significantly, both directly (uric acid production/retention) and indirectly (insulin). If eating meat causes gout then, I ask you, why didn't the Inuit suffer from this painful infliction?

While your at it show me the proof that humans can even fully digest meat.

I tell you what....I'll give you the proof and you can find the proof, for me, that humans can fully digest plant foods.

Are you aware that Gorilla's have the digestive system that allows them to digest fiber, a system that humans do not have. Are you also aware that the dietary fiber consumed by Gorilla's is fermented by bacteria to produce Short-chain-fatty-acids (saturated fat)? Do you realize that, because of this, Gorilla's are consuming a high-fat, moderate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet? And ruminants utilize even less carbohydrates.

So it seems that herbivores actually utilize fat, rather than glucose, as their preferred source of energy. Cattle, primates and humans, alike. Only through different biochemical/nutrient biology pathways.

You can post bogus study after bogus study, make every claim in the book. Its not gonna change the fact that humans can't properly break down meat.

Firstly, I haven't posted a bogus study yet. That has been your preference, in fact.

Secondly, why don't you provide some studies that demonstrate our lack of ability to digest meat?

You can keep on deflecting as to why cancer, heart disease and a whole host of other diseases are so prevalent. I'm sure it has nothing to do with our overwhelming increase in meat consumption.

Increase in meat consumption? Last I checked, since the 60's we've decreased our meat intake and saturated fat intake and have increased our vegetable fat intake and carbohydrate intake. Would like to provide some figures to support your claims.

-Dev

'Review
Epidemiology, risk factors, and lifestyle modifications for gout
Arthritis Research & Therapy 2006, 8(Suppl 1):S2

Abstract
..
The lifestyle modification recommendations for the treatment or prevention of gout are similar to those for the prevention or treatment of other major chronic disorders [48,49] (Fig. 2).

Thus, the net health benefits from these general lifestyle recommendations [49] are expected to be even greater among patients with gout, particularly those with coexisting insulin resistance syndrome, diabetes, obesity, and hypertension[48]. In particular, weight control, reduced consumption of red meat, and daily exercise are important lifestyle modifications for patients with gout or hyperuricemia and parallel recommendations for the prevention of coronary heart disease, diabetes, and certain types of cancer. Available open-label, interventional data suggest that weight reduction is associated with a decline in uric acid levels [36,38].

Furthermore, data on the relationship between purine-rich foods and urate levels indicate that restricting purine intake can reduce serum uric acid levels. For example, substitution of a purine-free formula diet over a period of days was shown to reduce the blood uric acid of healthy men from an average of 5.0 mg/dl to 3.0 mg/dl [50,51]. In general, dietary restriction of purine-rich foods lowers urinary excretion of uric acid by about 200–400 mg/day and decreases mean serum urate levels by about 1–2 mg/dl [52]. Thus, reducing intake of purine-rich foods, particularly those of animal origin such as red meat, is recommended in the prevention and management of hyperuricemia and gout. Red meat is also the main source of saturated fats, which are positively associated with insulin resistance [53,54], which in turn is closely associated with gout. These fats also increase low-density lipoprotein cholesterol more than HDL-cholesterol, resulting in an overall negative health effect. Increased consumption of red meat and saturated fats has been linked to major disorders such as coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes, and certain types of cancer. Thus, it is important for patients with gout to limit red meat consumption, as is indicated by the new Healthy Eating Pyramid recommendations for the general public (Fig. 2) [49].
..'
www.biomedcentral.com...

ummm....ya, it's the meat.....
it's not the million or so manmade chemicals that they are putting into your food to make it prettier, tastier, or to make it last five times longer than it normally would....
it's the meat!!!

your water has toxins in it, it's killing you...
your air has toxins in it, it's killing you,
your food has toxins in it, it's killing you...
and if that ain't enough to get you off this planet soon, so does your clothes, your shampoo, your soap, that plastic glass you are drinking from, that computer you are using....and on and on, and on.....
and some wonder why some of us are just taking the quick way out, and lighting up another cigarette!!!

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd



I tell you what....I'll give you the proof and you can find the proof, for me, that humans can fully digest plant foods.

Fruits are most easily digested food for humans, i never said anything about a high cellulose(green leafs) diet.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

Originally posted by dawnstar
ummm....ya, it's the meat.....
it's not the million or so manmade chemicals that they are putting into your food to make it prettier, tastier, or to make it last five times longer than it normally would....
it's the meat!!!

your water has toxins in it, it's killing you...
your air has toxins in it, it's killing you,
your food has toxins in it, it's killing you...
and if that ain't enough to get you off this planet soon, so does your clothes, your shampoo, your soap, that plastic glass you are drinking from, that computer you are using....and on and on, and on.....
and some wonder why some of us are just taking the quick way out, and lighting up another cigarette!!!

Its a combination of all these things, including the meat! If your smart you can minimize just about every single one of those dangers tho

reply to post by Rawhemp


and then get hit by a bus.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER
dudes hung up on gout, when the real problems are cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and stuff.
its dead animals man, its gross.

If you used your brain to think, instead of flaming, you might realize that everything you listed, including Gout and Obesity, is almost always present in individuals concurrently.

This observation suggests a similar cause.

If you don't have anything of value to add then don't post in this thread. Take your flame war elsewhere.

-Dev

the problem with adding more value to this thread isnt me, or the other peopel who understand the simple concept of dont eat corpses, its you buddy.
you are the one ignoring countless valid points and scientificly backed up data.
also, dont ever tell me what to do.
thanks friend, hope your having a wonderful day.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by Rawhemp

 

and then get hit by a bus.

Or not? if i get hit by a bus then it was meant to be, atleast i still took every step to better my life and hopefully the life of the people around me

reply to post by Pearl999


Thank you for posting more observational evidence in the form of epidemiology. That proves nothing.

Much like low-fat diets don't decrease blood lipids, and low-cholesterol diets don't decrease serum cholesterol, low-purine diets have little effect on uric acid levels.

-Dev

reply to post by Rawhemp


Most fruits are quite fibrous.

And, as I was saying, glucose/fructose is not a preferred source of fuel. Not even for herbivores.

-Dev

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER
the problem with adding more value to this thread isnt me, or the other peopel who understand the simple concept of dont eat corpses, its you buddy.

It never stops with you.....

I understand the very simple ideology of militant vegetarians, such as yourself. Every post of yours for the past few weeks has been nothing but a waste of bandwidth, adding nothing of value.

you are the one ignoring countless valid points and scientificly backed up data.

You're so busy trying to defend your lifestyle and attacking mine that you won't take a few seconds to take the blinders off and actually read my posts. I am NOT ignoring your countless(I counted very few) valid(according to whom?) points and scientifically backed up data.

Go back and read my posts. I'm rebutting and providing opposing data and dismantling your argument and putting you in the uncomfortable position of having to research a topic objectively--instead of searching for evidence to support your preconception--and your responses since have been nothing but baiting, flaming and personal attacks. If you call that ignoring your data....

also, dont ever tell me what to do.

Does it bother you that I've simply "told you" to stop posting in the manner you have been when it's clearly against TAC? It's time to grow up.

-Dev

reply to post by Rawhemp

I'd be more willing to bet that it's the crap that they are putting into the meat, feeding the animals, ect....

man has been eating meat since the mammoths were roaming the land!! probably before that even.

wonder how many 20 ton tubbies are pictured on the cave drawing chasing down the mammoths?? probably not many!!
of course, back then, they had to actually work for their food, and well....the food they got was to be shared by the whole community, and it was feast, and then famine, then feast......famine...ect....they ate what they could find, when they could find it...if they didn't find it, they didn't eat....

that probably plays into the picture now also, now we don't have to work, we can still get the food stamps to eat, heck half the people working now are just shuffling papers across the desk, and we seem to be able to eat as much of anything we want, whenever we want...and by the looks of things, many are eating ALOT!!!

a small modest portion of meat isn't gonna harm anything!

harm anything besides the animal you have to carve the flesh off of.
stop being a vampire , geez,.


Mod Note: Please Stay on Topic

[edit on Mon Nov 23 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
~ Pythagoras, mathematician

"Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds?" ~Plutarch, historian

"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921


LOVE

I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you. ~Margi Clark

I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky


LOVE