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Did the USAF Help pull off 911?

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
In this debate Please lets leave out “opinions as your facts” ...

That is all you used, your own opinions as facts. Are you retracting your opinions, the entire OP is an opinion based on failed assumptions and false information.

Fact: with exercises you have more people available to help in a crisis, so the last thing you would do if you were planning something is have an exercise going the same time. It would be like committing a crime in a police bar; not too smart.

Fact: deliberately flying planes into buildings is a crime not an accident so there is no investigation of an accident but the government did investigate all four crashes as criminal offenses; a large investigation.

Fact: four planes were taken by 19 terrorist and crashed into targets but alert people figured out 911 in minutes and stopped the terrorists on Flight 93. Minutes, and you have taken 8 years to try and blame the USAF and failed to present any facts. You got some hearsay and false information sourced to some real bad sources.




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by iSunTzu
 




In this debate Please lets leave out “opinions as your facts” ...

That is all you used, your own opinions as facts. Are you retracting your opinions, the entire OP is an opinion based on failed assumptions and false information.


My OP is a theory. It is up to you to disprove it, you cannot disprove a theory with another theory or an opinion. Nice try.




Fact: with exercises you have more people available to help in a crisis, so the last thing you would do if you were planning something is have an exercise going the same time. It would be like committing a crime in a police bar; not too smart.



Fact, they did it right under their noses just like Hitler did.

Fact, there was no exercise going on in NYC. In fact there were no exercise or war games going on, on 911 show me one internet or Press release about war games “ BEFORE” 911. Not written after 911.


Fact: deliberately flying planes into buildings is a crime not an accident so there is no investigation of an accident but the government did investigate all four crashes as criminal offenses; a large investigation.


Wong.


F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Fact, there was no investigation.



Fact: four planes were taken by 19 terrorist and crashed into targets but alert people figured out 911 in minutes and stopped the terrorists on Flight 93. Minutes, and you have taken 8 years to try and blame the USAF and failed to present any facts. You got some hearsay and false information sourced to some real bad sources.


Fact, there is absolutely no proof that 19 hijackers over took four planes and pulled of 911. try and do some real research instead of parroting the OS with no evidences.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
My OP is a theory. It is up to you to disprove it,


Wrong, it is up to you to prove it, not others disprove it. But as has been shown in this thread, you have no understanding of how many people would have been involved in your theory.



Fact, there is absolutely no proof that 19 hijackers over took four planes and pulled of 911.


That is not a fact, just your opinion.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by impressme
 


As with any theory the burden of proof is with you. Prove any of your theories; the only thing stopping you are facts and evidence.

There was no stand-down as a pilot on active duty on 911 I flew the day after and the following day in support of my office. On 911 there was no stand-down order to any USAF asset, or person. That is a fact and now you have to refute it with evidence. Prove the stand-down.

The exercise idea is not valid; if it were a smoking gun someone would have a Pulitzer Prize. Unless you can show which exercises were running during 911 you have not come close to supporting your theory.

The terrorists are factual; please refute all the evidence. Start with the phone call from aircrew telling of the murder of other crew-members by specific terrorists.

The terrorists left such giant trail it is worse than McVeigh and Nichols.

You said bring facts, when all you have are opinions you based a theory on.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by dereks
 




My OP is a theory. It is up to you to disprove it,

Wrong, it is up to you to prove it, not others disprove it. But as has been shown in this thread, you have no understanding of how many people would have been involved in your theory.


Insult noted, but I seem to have no problem in understanding anything that is why my thread has made it to 19 pages and yet none of you OS believers can dispute my theory why is that?


No, I just posted a theory try and disprove it. It is up to you to disprove my theory is wrong, nice try.


Fact, there is absolutely no proof that 19 hijackers over took four planes and pulled of 911.

That is not a fact, just your opinion.


No my quote is a fact. None of you OS believer have ever proved it was true.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
yet none of you OS believers can dispute my theory why is that?


I have actually, twice in this thread - but you apparently refuse to read it!


No, I just posted a theory try and disprove it. It is up to you to disprove my theory is wrong,


No, you make the claim, you prove it - it is not up to others to disprove it.


No my quote is a fact.


You seem confused, you somehow think all because you have a opinion on something that means it is a fact. Facts and opinions are not the same.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by iSunTzu
 



As with any theory the burden of proof is with you. Prove any of your theories; the only thing stopping you are facts and evidence.


I asked three questions in my OP why don’t you answer them.


There was no stand-down as a pilot on active duty on 911 I flew the day after and the following day in support of my office. On 911 there was no stand-down order to any USAF asset, or person. That is a fact and now you have to refute it with evidence. Prove the stand-down


You have no proof of your allegations again you are parroting the OS which we all know to well.

If there was no stand down orders why where four hijacked airplanes flying around for an hour over highly restricted air space without so much as a sneeze from NORAD? My “opinion” it looks like a stand down to me.

Where is your proof there was no stand down?


The terrorists are factual; please refute all the evidence. Start with the phone call from aircrew telling of the murder of other crew-members by specific terrorists.


Not a fact. Robert Muller head of FBI already said we may never know who the real hijackers were because, they left no paper trail, FACT.


The terrorists left such giant trail it is worse than McVeigh and Nichols.


You obviously have never done any real reassured into 911. the terrorist left no trail, that is a Fact not an opinion.


You said bring facts, when all you have are opinions you based a theory on.


That’s right I brought forth a theory I asked you all to prove it and you all have not instead is try to spin and deflect the real issues of the OP and most of you will not answer any of my three questions in my OP why is that? This is part of my discussion of my OP.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by dereks



I have actually, twice in this thread - but you apparently refuse to read it!

No, I just posted a theory try and disprove it. It is up to you to disprove my theory is wrong,


No you haven’t and if you did you would have just posted it again to remind me. stop deflecting my OP.




[edit on 20-12-2009 by impressme]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
Thin skin? Calling people insulting names doesn’t win respect.


Nah, but it does get a few laughs.


Originally posted by impressme
No, you are the one turning your own errors around after I showed how silly it was. Try again.


Why? You'll just misunderstand it like you did the original post. You know, where I said that to handle four aircraft like the ones used on 9/11, you needed a large runway, not a grass strip.


Originally posted by impressme
Please try answering my OP three questions.


Avoid and deflect. Because you know that there is no way in hell that four aircraft such as these could be on a USAF flightline and NOT be noticed by anyone assigned there, or even just passing by the perimeter fence.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by dereks




Did the United States Air Force stand down it sure looks that way? Here is proof that Cheney did give a stand down order to NOT to intercept a flight heading into the Pentagon.


Norman Mineta Confirms That Dick Cheney Ordered Stand Down on 9/11

bushstole04.com...

The more I dig the more guilty the Bush administration are including a handful of military officials in the Air Force. I believe 911 was a false flag operation and a hand full of corrupt Air Force officials and pilots loyal to Dick Cheney flew those planes into the WTC. I do not believe those planes were United or American airlines. I believe those planes came from our military because, they own the same planes Boeing 757,767 and that is a fact.
That is why our government is NOT willing to come clean to show us proof like the serial numbers of these plane crash debris that can prove conclusively that those are the real planes.

In fact it has been proven that our government didn’t even investigate any of the four plane crashes


F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

pilotsfor911truth.org...


F.B.I. Counsel: No Records Available Revealing ID Process Of Recovered 9/11 Plane Wreckage


www.911blogger.com...

The sorry excuses the government gave us as to why they didn’t investigate the four planes was because they said “WE know those were the planes”! As if, we are to believe them after they have been caught lying about everything else about 911, how smug of them, they couldn’t even come up with a better lie. They stand there with their evil grimacing smug look on their faces, daring anyone to questioning them.

Here is two questions: how many of you think that handful of corrupt military pilots using remote controled airplanes, loyal to Dick Cheney and a handful of corrupt officials in the Bush administration planed and carried out 911 also using demolitions expert in our military to blow up the WTC and covered it up by using the FBI to hide and lie about all the evidences.

Question: how many of you believe the OS is true and what “conclusive scientific evidences” that has convince you that the OS is true, and please post sources and links to back your claim.

In this debate Please lets leave out “opinions as your facts” If you have an opinion then please state it “as your opinion”. Lets be respectful to one another, lets keep this civil please.
Thank you.





No, I just posted a theory try and disprove it. It is up to you to disprove my theory is wrong,

No, you make the claim, you prove it - it is not up to others to disprove it.

No my quote is a fact.

You seem confused, you somehow think all because you have a opinion on something that means it is a fact. Facts and opinions are not the same.


You need to reread the OP again. I am not confused!





[edit on 20-12-2009 by impressme]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Sanity
I have been watching this thread and have come to the conclusion that the few of you continuing to harrass impressme have no interest in what happened on 911. Your interest lies in trying to ridicule and embarrass those who understand that the OS is nothing but a story written to pacify the public. Well, smart ones, look in the mirror. You represent the masses because you fell for the story that was admitted to be lies by it's own authors and editors.


Actually, I have little interest in 9/11, but I do take interest in someone talking smack about something he knows nothing about. Impressme has made statements about the AF and the aircraft used on 9/11. Myself and several others have told him time and again about how these planes couldn't have been launched or even just serviced on an AF base without someone noticing.


Originally posted by Sanity
Your immature bullying behavior is so juvenile I have to wonder if you had mommy and daddy get you an account on ATS. Surely you must have someone to play hide and seek with or maybe you can sneak to the TV and watch some Romper Room. Do what little kids do elsewhere, not here.


And here I am, not even having my obnoxious knob turned to "medium" yet.

Oh, and by the way, Sportsfan, what you just posted could be considered bullying and immature. Pot, meet Kettle.


Originally posted by Sanity
I have read the TC and the recent warning by the Mod and notice some of you are immune to warnings but even further, it seems you escape the wrath of the Mods and have the freedom to say whatever you like when you feel like attacking others. I will take this up wth the owners of ATS and if they feel you are not due warnings or more likely worse, I will absolutely move on because it tells me who is protected and who is not.


Say whatever I like? Gus, numerous times, impressme has called me an outright liar (or lair as he spells it) whenever I post something that he doesn't agree with. Or did you miss those precious posts of his? I might have said he didn't have a clue, or called him "Gus" or "Toecheese", doubted his sources, but I haven't ever said he was lying.

Now, feel free to run your smack to the mods. But be sure to point out what I just wrote, too. Mmmm, k?



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by impressme
 


No one needs to show your theory is wrong, it is a theory and based on your zero evidence stand it remains a theory. It conflicts with reality as you insist on others to disprove your ideas which are only theories. If you wish to retreat to the other people have to show method of not proving or supporting your own ideas that is cool and ironic.

19 terrorists did 911, and it is tiltiing at windmills to try and blame our service people in the USAF without evidence. You have googled up your theory, you will never support it with facts or prove it with evidence.

The list of evidence for no 19 terrorist, is now listed.

1.

That was an incredibly short list; after extensive googling I only found evidence for 19 terrorists doing 911; and 4 of them failed. 75 percent is not very good. The USAF operations in Desert Strom were running 99.9 percent to 100 percent for various units. The USAF would turn in traitors, your allegation are without merit when you go to court it would be interesting to here the peanut gallery when you tell them you googled your "non-evidence" to support your claims.


Did the USAF help pull off 911? No, and the evidence says so.

Which exercises lead you to form your never to be proved theory? How did those exercises help the terrorists complete their mission? Without 19 terrorists hijacking 4 planes your theory is DEAD in the water. Do you understand that fact? Your own theory, which seems to deny any terrorists, will fall flat since the perps would of course launch planes on the "terrorists flights" to make themselves look good.

There are so many holes in your theory.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by iSunTzu
 



Originally posted by iSunTzu
reply to post by impressme

No one needs to show your theory is wrong, it is a theory and based on your zero evidence stand it remains a theory. It conflicts with reality as you insist on others to disprove your ideas which are only theories. If you wish to retreat to the other people have to show method of not proving or supporting your own ideas that is cool and ironic.



No one needs to show your theory is wrong, it is a theory and based on your zero evidence stand it remains a theory.


That is your opinion.


It conflicts with reality as you insist on others to disprove your ideas which are only theories


It might conflict in YOUR reality and you cant speak for the rest of the world because this is an opinion nothing more.


If you wish to retreat to the other people have to show method of not proving or supporting your own ideas that is cool and ironic.


That is right and your not the only one who has an opinion. Because I have an opinion who to say that your opinions are right? Not you. Neither side wins in this dribble because neither side has proven anything in here but, who can play the insult game the best don’t you agree?


19 terrorists did 911, and it is tiltiing at windmills to try and blame our service people in the USAF without evidence.


I hear a broken record in here. You have absolutely no proof that 19 hijacker did 911. Again, all you are doing is repeating a proven OS lie. I have shown you proof by telling you that Robert Muller said we do not know who the hijackers really were because, they left no paper trail. Yet you continue to ignore evidences from government authorities who have made this public statement. But you have no problem cherry picking other evidences to support your unfounded theories.

Why do you feel you do not have to prove anything your OS has already been proven a lie, why do you support a lie? Your OS fairytail opens the door to many theories because the US government refuse to answer critical question in fact the OS is a proven Conspiracy based on proven lies.

So until the governments come clean with some real facts we are entitle to our beliefs regardless of how outlandish they are. You are certainly initial to disagree but you don’t have a right to be obnoxious about it.


You have googled up your theory, you will never support it with facts or prove it with evidence.


False, I never Google up my theory, this is something I came up on my own, and if you think there is a theory on the internet that is the same as mind then please produce it with your sources please. As far as supporting my theory with evidences, LOL I don’t think the real criminals left any.


That was an incredibly short list; after extensive googling I only found evidence for 19 terrorists doing 911; and 4 of them failed. 75 percent is not very good. The USAF operations in Desert Strom were running 99.9 percent to 100 percent for various units. The USAF would turn in traitors, your allegation are without merit when you go to court it would be interesting to here the peanut gallery when you tell them you googled your "non-evidence" to support your claims.


I didn’t see Bernie Madoff laughing when we caught him doing the most unthinkable. in fact who would have believe it. No one.

Now for your Proof of 19 hijackers pulling off 911 why you don’t produce it? I have been down that road before and I can prove you wrong. Where is this credible evidences that you speak of. LOL as fare as a court room LOL we are in a conspiracy website not a courtroom and what does Desert storm have to do with my thread anyway??


Did the USAF help pull off 911? No, and the evidence says so.



Again, you have no proof the USAF did not help pull off 911. This is your “opinion.” Not a fact.


No, and the evidence says so.


Show your evidences then? Where is it? Your opinion to this answer is not a fact if you want to make it a fact then you need to produce this evidences that you claim makes the USAF innocent, so where is it?



Which exercises lead you to form your never to be proved theory? How did those exercises help the terrorists complete their mission? Without 19 terrorists hijacking 4 planes your theory is DEAD in the water. Do you understand that fact? Your own theory, which seems to deny any terrorists, will fall flat since the perps would of course launch planes on the "terrorists flights" to make themselves look good.


First of all I ask you question for you to prove about the military exercises and you have not responded yet.


Fact, they did it right under their noses just like Hitler did.

Fact, there was no exercise going on in NYC. In fact there were no exercise or war games going on, on 911 show me one internet or Press release about war games “ BEFORE” 911. Not written after 911.


Why don’t you answer any of my questions, are we are having a conversation here or am I talking to a brick wall again?



You have no proof of your allegations again you are parroting the OS which we all know to well.

If there was no stand down orders why where four hijacked airplanes flying around for an hour over highly restricted air space without so much as a sneeze from NORAD? My “opinion” it looks like a stand down to me.

Where is your proof there was no stand down?


Still waiting for your answer to this question.




There are so many holes in your theory.


If there was, you wouldn’t be in here defending a proven lie.









[edit on 20-12-2009 by impressme]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by impressme
 


This is getting ridiculous.
To show you how ridiculous it is let me post a theory.
I will say that the French Air Force helped carry out 9/11 with help from the Mexican Air Force.

Prove to me that the French Air Force did not help in carrying out the attacks of 9/11.

Prove to me that the Mexican Air Force wasn´t involved either.

Show me evidence of my theory being false.




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by rush969
 


Question: 1 Here is two questions: how many of you think that handful of corrupt military pilots using remote controled airplanes, loyal to Dick Cheney and a handful of corrupt officials in the Bush administration planed and carried out 911 also using demolitions expert in our military to blow up the WTC and covered it up by using the FBI to hide and lie about all the evidences.

Question: 2 how many of you believe the OS is true and what “conclusive scientific evidences” that has convince you that the OS is true, and please post sources and links to back your claim.

Answer the two question?


Please stay on Topic.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by impressme

Question: 1 Here is two questions: how many of you think that handful of corrupt military pilots using remote controled airplanes, loyal to Dick Cheney and a handful of corrupt officials in the Bush administration planed and carried out 911 also using demolitions expert in our military to blow up the WTC and covered it up by using the FBI to hide and lie about all the evidences.


That was answered in your other thread, why repeat it here?



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by dereks
 


That was answered in your other thread, why repeat it here?


Really, I didn’t see it answered, why don’t you post this credible answer for all to see.



In fact why don’t you post who ever allegedly answered these questions.

I can say Oh yes, I proved the USAF did it pull off 911 a long time ago, so I don’t need to show it to you again. If you don’t believe me start reading all 20 pages until you come across it.



Question: 1 Here is two questions: how many of you think that handful of corrupt military pilots using remote controled airplanes, loyal to Dick Cheney and a handful of corrupt officials in the Bush administration planed and carried out 911 also using demolitions expert in our military to blow up the WTC and covered it up by using the FBI to hide and lie about all the evidences.

Question: 2 how many of you believe the OS is true and what “conclusive scientific evidences” that has convince you that the OS is true, and please post sources and links to back your claim.

Answer the two question?


Please stay on Topic.


Why don’t you try and answer the two question this is what part of my OP is.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Who ever did it must be laughing there butts off listening to all the arguing between the believers and the truthers.

Regardless, three buildings fell out of the sky in the same way , in the same place, on the same day. What are the odds? 400x400x400....

And the BBC report of wtc 7 before it happend?

Yeah Ok.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by 22-250



Who ever did it must be laughing there butts off listening to all the arguing between the believers and the truthers.


I agree with you on that.


Regardless, three buildings fell out of the sky in the same way , in the same place, on the same day. What are the odds? 400x400x400....

And the BBC report of wtc 7 before it happend?

Yeah Ok.


The OS believer do not want to discuses those issues because, it blows holes in their OS fairytale. Instead, it is so compfy to believe in a lie than to look at the evil truth starring them in the face.



[edit on 20-12-2009 by impressme]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by impressme

how many of you think that handful of corrupt military pilots using remote controled airplanes, loyal to Dick Cheney and a handful of corrupt officials in the Bush administration planed and carried out 911 also using demolitions expert in our military to blow up the WTC and covered it up by using the FBI to hide and lie about all the evidences.


Your other thread was merged here...
but again here are my answer for your claim

So let us have a look at that in detail.

First the USAF would have had to obtained 2 757's and 2 767's, they would have needed a project management team, a budget, a proposal, funding etc etc. Then they would have had to have a team of personel qualified to service and fly that type of aircraft. And they would have had to ensure the planes had the same wheels, tires and engines as the civilian aircraft that were supposed to have crashed

Then they would have had to painted them to look like American Airlines and United Airlines, with the correct buzz numbers of the aircraft they were meant to represent. So the men and their management in the paintshop are now involved, also they would have had to order the correct type of paint etc, so now more funding and paperwork.

Then the remote control gear would have had to be sourced, modified, installed and tested. So more men and their management, plus funding and paperwork.

Already you have hundreds of people knowing about it. Then the pilots would have had to be trained in flying the jets by remote control, so the jets would all have to made many test flights. Now everyone at the airfield would know about it, including air traffic control etc.

Now the fun really starts. American Airlines Flight 11, American Airlines Flight 77, United Airlines Flight 175 and United Airlines Flight 93 somehow took off as normal, but then all landed where the 4 secret "air force" planes were, the passengers and crew were then somehow killed and strapped into the fake "air force" jets, they then took off under remote control and were flown into the WTC towers, the Pentagon and the ground.

Then the remote control gear somehow dissapeared, as nothing was found of it. A few hundred more people must have been involved, to quickly kill everyone on the civilian aircraft and move them to the other aircraft.

Then somehow the 4 civilian aircraft were "dissapeared, and also somehow the Air Force wrote off the 4 fake aircraft - and none of the thousands involved ever questioned any of this, or spoke out against it?

Then we have the demolition experts in another branch of the military smuggling in tonnes of explosives etc into 3 buildings, installing them, and so we have dozens/hundreds more people knowing about it.

Also no one who worked there ever noticed the piles of explosives installed in their buildings, or the large team smuggling them in?

and you think this is what happened......


[edit on 20/12/09 by dereks]




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