Public option would lead him to filibuster, key senator says

Public option would lead him to filibuster, key senator says

www.cnn.com

Washington (CNN) -- Independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman said Tuesday he would join a Republican filibuster to block the final vote on any health care bill that has a government-run public health insurance option.

Lieberman's vote is crucial to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's hopes of passing a health care bill that includes the controversial public option. Reid announced Monday he would send to the full Senate a health care bill that has a public option but also allows states to opt out of that provision.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow this is big news Senator Joe Lieberman is publicly stating that he will filibuster any Health Care Plan that has a public option! I don’t know ladies and gentlemen but it sounds to me like the Fat Lady has sung and Elvis is no longer in the Building on a Obama Care plan coming to America anytime soon.

I find this to be highly encouraging and a good step regarding what is becoming the latest health care debacle poorly thought out and too aggressively reached for, for yet another first term Democratic Administration looking to do good without even first having a definition of what truly is good and failing to look before it leaps.

I consider this great news!


www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Lieberman said he would support a vote to launch debate on the health care bill but would oppose a motion to end debate if the public option remains in the legislation. Democrats would need 60 votes in the 100-member Senate to close debate on the bill, and the Democratic caucus has 60 members, including Lieberman.

"I can't see a way in which I can vote for cloture on any bill that contained a creation of a government-operated and run insurance company," the Connecticut senator said. "It's just asking for trouble."

Also Tuesday, two other conservative-leaning Democratic senators, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, said they would decide how to vote once they see the final bill.

It does not look like this thing can get through the Senate with out Lieberman's vote, and it appears it's more likely that other Democrats might oppose it as well, as opposed to any Republicans supporting it.

Finally some real Hope and Change I can believe in. Nothing getting done, no new laws or bills, maintaining the Status Quo!

We need to shrink this obscene government of ours not expand it!

"I'm not going to make any kind of commitment until I see the bill," Nelson said, adding that he has not given Reid any assurance or "secret" acknowledgment of support.

Reid needs the support of Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu and several other conservative or moderate caucus members to ensure that he has enough votes to prevent Republicans from blocking action on a health care bill. His Republican counterpart, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, on Tuesday promised a filibuster against both introducing the health care bill and later closing debate on it.

"Well, it's fairly routine around the Senate that controversial matters require 60 votes," McConnell told reporters. "I mean, there's no question it'll require 60 votes to get on the bill and it'll require 60 votes to get off the bill."

Of course it's hard to day just why wiliey old Joe is making this announcement now?

Could he be deliberately voicing his stated intention to derail a Health Care Bill with a Public Option getting passed in the Senate as a means to force Obama to make some other concession on an issue near and dear to him?

Like West Bank Israeli Settlements?

I wonder.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Finally some real Hope and Change I can believe in. Nothing getting done, no new laws or bills, maintaining the Status Quo!

We need to shrink this obscene government of ours not expand it!

Bravo! I just hope ol' Joe holds his ground. You just never know, though. If he does, I expect others to band with him.

I'm a staunch Conservative, but while I disagree with him on some things, I've always liked Joe Lieberman.

It seems that on many of the very important things that would be detrimental to the US, he stands his ground against the more destructive proposals.

It is this very courage that leads him to be an independent when his Democratic Party crapped all over him.

Good for Joe. He won again, and apparently, still knows up from down.

Good thread, Proto!

This is good news.
But it makes me wonder if the public option was thrown in last minute like this as a way to inevitably point the finger at the Republicans in the long run.

Either way, I don't really care, as I can't stand either party.
But it is just really fishy that after promising to back down from the public option, they went with it anyhow.

Proto,

I like your thoughts also on the possibility that Lieberman will bow to some pork included in the bill here in short order.
That bailout fiasco should serve as a reminder at how these people actually get things done. They simply play to the greed factor rampant in the soulless shell of ALL of our "Representatives."

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Finally some real Hope and Change I can believe in. Nothing getting done, no new laws or bills, maintaining the Status Quo!

We need to shrink this obscene government of ours not expand it!

Bravo! I just hope ol' Joe holds his ground. You just never know, though. If he does, I expect others to band with him.

Joe is the John McCain on the left. He goes where it makes sense to go not where the party goes.

Where they both go others have been know to and will follow.

Lets face it most of the people might be sheeple but our politicians sure aren't. They know darn well which way the wind is blowing on this thing in their districts and that a lot of people who actually vote, don't actually want it.

The politicians believe CNN and FOX and MSNBC about as much as we do.

At the end of the day they will all want to keep their jobs. The media might full a lot of people with the Republican Part is Dead, jobs are on the way, but the politicians especially the Democrats no they are going to be in a fight for their lives come mid term elections.

Here in Florida official unemployment is 11% highest in the nation. More than a million people are out of work in the state. While the rest of the nation's income rose by a paltry .02% last month ours here went down by that amount. The State is jammed full of retirees who know Medicare is going to get cut to pay for this new Health Care Plan. They don't want it.

The Herald which is a liberal left leaning paper that endorsed Obama is openly saying Democrats are going to be in for a fierce fight come mid terms because of Obama's lackluster performance and that most of Obama's primary voters aren't the mid term election crowd voters.

Those are mostly seniors and Republicans who vote midterm.

This is not just a chink in the Obama armor what Lieberman is doing it's a gaping gash!

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by dooper
I'm a staunch Conservative, but while I disagree with him on some things, I've always liked Joe Lieberman.

It seems that on many of the very important things that would be detrimental to the US, he stands his ground against the more destructive proposals.

It is this very courage that leads him to be an independent when his Democratic Party crapped all over him.

Good for Joe. He won again, and apparently, still knows up from down.

Good thread, Proto!

You know Dooper my friend, I don't think many people here on ATS have mistaken you for a bleeding heart liberal laugh out loud!

Contrary to popular misconception here on ATS I am not anti-Semetic and I have always liked Joe Leiberman. He's a little too much of a war mongerer but he is a frank, tough, plain spoken guy who has always shown a fierce independent streak up on the Hill. I respect him.

He is also a real force of nature, and while he left the Party he formed after failing to win the democratic nomination for his senate seat and returned to the Democractic Caucus once reelected the Party he founded actually lives on back in Connecticut and is dedicated to some centrist and sound principals.

The man is leaving a decent legacy as far as Washington politicians go.

He doesn't take no for answer obviously well either, and is awfully good at getting around no.

Having him against the Public Option will be a powerful and likely deciding force in stopping it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It's a good thing that "We the People" stood up to their BS and let them know where we stand on some of these issues.

I hope this deal is dead, but it's too bad they could at least pass some tort reform and open up the state boarders, conciedering that is what the damn Feds are suppose to do anyways. Regulate Commerce between states..............??..Not stop it between states.

reply to post by JayinAR


I don't know really about the Public Option being thrown in at the last minute. I think that the White House and Obama have counted on a Public Option as part of Obama's Agenda but because he was just present in Harvard and not actually learning anything there he can't write a bill to save his life.

If you ever really want a better laugh than anything you could ever find on the Comedy Club Circuit go to LibraryofcongressThomas.gov and pull Obama's Bills that he wrote as a U.S. Senator, after reading a few and you stop laughing long enough to catch your breath you will not only understand why none of them were ever passed into law, but why we truly do have the best propaganda on the planet!

Talk about an empty suit! The lights are on there but let me tell you there is no body home. Take the teleprompter away and that man makes George W. Bush Jr. look like Einstein!

The people writing the Bills actually worked on the details that matter to the Insurance, Medical and Drug Company lobbies and then worked in the Public Options at the end for Obama to sell.

The reality is that the Insurance, Medical and Drug Companies don't want the Bill either, and everyone who is anyone wants the health care bill to crash and burn, but the Democrats know their fortunes are tied to Obama and have they have to try to make the clown look good.

Joe actually does have his own party back home now that he can always turn too and has 5 more years to go on his term. He can afford to be an obstructionist to the party that denied him the nomination for his own seat he later won by other independent means.

I honestly think the only thing that would back him down is a major concession towards Israel which is something very important to him.

That is a genuine cause for concern and his early posturing on this could be a signal to the Party or the White House he wants something big.

It will be interesting to watch and follow but this does make me hopeful that Health Care is going to end up a dead issue and debacle for trying for the Administration yet again.

I wonder if Hilary suckered him into it to deliberately make him look bad? She is a witch that woman and she knows from her own painful experience what a suicide attempt revamping health care is in this nation.

Thanks for posting my friend.

One of the things I don't like about all of this is the way Congress is being so secretive about what they are putting together.

Basically, nobody knows what the bill entails and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to pass it just to prove they can get one passed.

If they are intent on passing it, so be it. But the least they could do is be honest with us and tell us what the real deal is.

Lieberman needs to be careful. They will come down on him.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hmmm... I can see that being the case. I was thinking that it was Reid himself that was saying he wouldn't present a bill with a public option.

Perhaps it WAS always intended, but the rhetoric was out there nonetheless. Or at least I thought.
Either way, I like Lieberman's spunk, but I don't trust any of them enough to say they won't bend more easily than you give him credit for.

I remember how that Bailout Proposal turned out. Almost unanimous first go... Add some pork and viola! The official introduction of the Federal Reserve as the Fourth Branch of Government.

These people are clowns. Easily bought and paid for. They sold what was left of the soul of this nation to the banksters.
I have no love for them.

Originally posted by j2000
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

It's a good thing that "We the People" stood up to their BS and let them know where we stand on some of these issues.

I hope this deal is dead, but it's too bad they could at least pass some tort reform and open up the state boarders, conciedering that is what the damn Feds are suppose to do anyways. Regulate Commerce between states..............??..Not stop it between states.

I think some of the people on Capitol Hill are definately getting the message that the voters aren't happy no matter what the Main Stream Media says or how they spin it.

When I was younger the Banks couldn't cross the Mississippi or certain state lines. At one time I couldn't even get a branch of my Bank in Las Vegas to cash a check written on my account in Los Angeles even though it was the same bank because of the interstate commerce laws governing the banks at that time.

Thats no longer the case, but what did happen is once the banks were allowed to cross the Mississippi and some states that were holding out trying to ensure dominance within the state of their own home grown banks, they all quickly got bought up by the big guys and that might have led to the problem we have now in the banking business. Too few competitors "To big to fail".

The fact of the matter is that it's great for the little guy to cross state lines, but its often death for the little guys within a state to let the big guys cross state lines too. It can quickly lead to monopolies and problems.

That's my take on it, but just my own opinion.

Thanks for posting friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

So Proto, if I have this right, you're suggesting that I don't come across as a liberal pacifist?

This is the God's truth - I didn't even think of Lieberman as having a special interest in Israel. I usually don't think in those terms, and until you pointed it out - I didn't even think of it.

I agree that mid-term elections are going to be reflective of the scorecard the American people are going to grade Obama and the Democratic leadership, and especially address many of the RINO's.

I too, live in Florida, in the Panhandle, and you can bet there's going to be a lot of voters voting that did not grow up on the dole.

God help us all if nothing changes.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

So Proto, if I have this right, you're suggesting that I don't come across as a liberal pacifist?

This is the God's truth - I didn't even think of Lieberman as having a special interest in Israel. I usually don't think in those terms, and until you pointed it out - I didn't even think of it.

I agree that mid-term elections are going to be reflective of the scorecard the American people are going to grade Obama and the Democratic leadership, and especially address many of the RINO's.

I too, live in Florida, in the Panhandle, and you can bet there's going to be a lot of voters voting that did not grow up on the dole.

God help us all if nothing changes.

Joe was so hawkish on Afghanistan and Iraq Dooper he almost won neoconservative of the year in 2001-2002.

He was on news talk show after talk show backing up the Republicans arguing for the war, both of them strenously and much of his Iraq argument was weapons of mass destruction would likely be used on Israel.

Honestly the guy is tougher on security issues than many Republicans and what's more I honestly think if Gore and he had got elected and some how if he ended up as President we would have gone into Iraq and Iran a lot heavier and hotter than we did and have won clear cut victories.

Joe is a no nonsense blood and guts kind of guy friend Dooper.

At this pace I really believe the mid term elections are going to be a disaster for the democrats.

I think we are going to see a lot more independents make it into office too.

Thanks for posting my ultra-liberal-left wing friend.

To funny. Dooper my friend they don't come any more conservative or sensible than you friend!

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Hmmm... I can see that being the case. I was thinking that it was Reid himself that was saying he wouldn't present a bill with a public option.

Perhaps it WAS always intended, but the rhetoric was out there nonetheless. Or at least I thought.
Either way, I like Lieberman's spunk, but I don't trust any of them enough to say they won't bend more easily than you give him credit for.

I remember how that Bailout Proposal turned out. Almost unanimous first go... Add some pork and viola! The official introduction of the Federal Reserve as the Fourth Branch of Government.

These people are clowns. Easily bought and paid for. They sold what was left of the soul of this nation to the banksters.
I have no love for them.

Reid and Pelosi almost come across as lap dogs of Obama but here is the thing very few people know.

Reid was Station Cheif for the CIA in Jakarta Indonesia when guess who was going to school in Indonesia?

One Barry Sorretto aka Barrack Hussein Obama.

Reid might be the initial connection between Obama and the CIA.

I do believe Obama is CIA by the way, that he was recruited out of Occidental College in LA because he had a Islamic Country's Passport and a Arabic name and was sent to Pakistan during the Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan and worked for the CIA there and distinquished himself and the fast tracked him when they got back.

Some people think 9-11 was a remodelling job on the Pentagon to make some vital records dissapear.

The last guy who did remodelling at the Pentagon was his mentor Ayers.

A lot of these radical ellements around Obama aren't radical in the sense of their politics because their politics are cover, because they are CIA too.

You are like me friend, I dont believe in left/right politics because I know some of the oligarchs who do in fact control the political process and the nation, the military industrial complex and banks.

I think Obama was probably selected for who he has ultimately become by the CIA and might have by Reid all the way back in his Indonesia days.

Some food for thought.

Originally posted by jam321
One of the things I don't like about all of this is the way Congress is being so secretive about what they are putting together.

Basically, nobody knows what the bill entails and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to pass it just to prove they can get one passed.

If they are intent on passing it, so be it. But the least they could do is be honest with us and tell us what the real deal is.

Lieberman needs to be careful. They will come down on him.

That is the distrubing thing about the bill and a very frightening aspect to considering it has to do with our health which is our very lives itself.

They definately are trying to do an end run around the people and increasingly more and more of their legislative attempts are being done in secret and then rammed down our throat.

Washington is growing in to quite the monster, and keep in mind too that AIPAC is a powerful lobby, Lieberman is a friend of Israel, he is a staunch supporter of Israel, Israel is not happy regarding Obama's stance on West Bank Settlements or what they consider to be foot dragging on Iran.

Leiberman is the key 60th Democratic Vote that stops fillabusters from being able to happen. End up with 59 out of 100, grab a snickers bar you might not be going anywhere for a while. End up with 60 then throw a shrimp on the Bar-bee I will be home in time for dinner honey!

Obama's stature and popularity is falling fast, if he fails on Health Care he isn't going to be finished but he is going to not only be a mortal but a failed one and that's a long hard fall from his almost messiah like stature he was hyped up to going in to office.

He will never regain that stature if the Health Care Bill fails.

This very well could be Israel showing it's teeth and muscle to him. It's broadcast loud and early.

Joe has his own party and if he is doing this with Israel's blessing to get Obama to play ball, or to punish him for not doing it, Joe is going to be well protected.

Lots of things to consider here in this. Lots.

Thanks for posting friend.

all i can say is that the senators that don't vote for the public option are sick and twisted human beings, who don't care about americans dying from lack of healthcare. they care about prostituting themselves to the insurance companies. just a bunch of common whores and FOX is out there pimping for them

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I've seen it mentioned that Obama was a CIA financial "expert"...
But it can't be both ways.
He can't be such an idiot as to make Bush look like Einstein and also be a CIA financial analyst, or whatever he is.

Oh well, I don't trust him.
He is just like all the others. An actor that is playing the biggest stage on Earth.
The playwrights are who we should be looking at.

All the rest of them do their bidding and they don't give a snap about you or I.