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NEWS: 9/11 Commission Lashes out at the FDNY and NYPD

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posted on May, 18 2004 @ 11:08 PM
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In what has been slowly emerging as the 'hunt for a scapegoat,' the FDNY and NYPD was scrutinized and criticized by the 9/11 Commission today. The Commission is in New York for two days holding hearings on the two NYC departments failures in inter-communications and inter-cooperations, in relation to the tragic events of that day. Commissioner John Lehman berated the FDNY and NYPD by mockingly calling there ineffectiveness in inter-communications as "a scandal" and "not worthy of the Boy Scouts."
 


9/11 Panel Scolds Ex-Police, Fire Chiefs
NEW YORK - The former police and fire chiefs who were lionized after the World Trade Center attack came under harsh criticism Tuesday from the Sept. 11 commission, with one member saying the departments' lack of cooperation was scandalous and "not worthy of the Boy Scouts."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Tomorrow, former NYC Mayor Giuliani will appear before the 9/11 Commission. I'm speculating as to how he is taking the berating/scathing words that were given today by those on the Commission. How many NYPD and FDNY men were lost doing what they could to save people? Seems a bit harsh to be in NYC and tell those who lost loved ones that their city fire and police departments were not even "worthy of the Boy Scouts."


Related News
Sept. 11 testimony evokes anger, tears in New York
9/11 Panel Criticizes New York Action in Sept. 11 Attack
9/11 marked by communication failures, dysfunctional coordination

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]



joi

posted on May, 18 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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I heard this on the news today riding into work.
How pathetic to pass the buck unto the NYFD and PD who were risking their lives and frankly busting ass at Ground Zero! That is as cold hearted as it gets.
How about blaming the us military and government for their inept work in this mess...



posted on May, 18 2004 @ 11:38 PM
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I can't imagine Guiliani not putting these putz in their place. I noticed that the NYPD/FDNY didn't take this lightly.



Thomas Von Essen, the city's fire commissioner at the time of the attacks, said he was offended by Mr. Lehman's remarks. "You make it sound like everything went wrong on Sept. 11," he said in the sharpest exchange of the hearing. "I think it's outrageous that you make a statement like that."


This Monday morning quartbacking on the part of the commission, the senate, and the house is getting completely out of hand. Is it really that hard to identify where we could have done better or differently without these personal attacks? These men live each day wondering what could have been done differently. To have someone confirm those fears and doubts solely for the nightly news sound-bite is cruel.


Q

posted on May, 18 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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I'm with you guys.


How dare these people criticize the NYPD/FDNY for their actions. Have they forgotten how many of these people willingly gave their very lives in the attempt to help others? Have they forgotten how many of the survivors watched as their friends and loved ones selflessly did so? Have they forgotten the impact of this event upon everyone?

A review of actions to see how they can be improved in the future I can understand, but this blatant criticism should not be tolerated.

My deepest sympathies to all members of these organizations, and to Mr. Von Essen, who had to endure this humiliation. Some of us haven't forgotten.



posted on May, 18 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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I'm supposing that this was Mr. Lehman's and company's way of expressing there appreciation for those NYPD and FDNY men and women that lost their lives in the line of duty.

The line of questioning given by the Commission today reads almost as if they believed that there was or is some maddening conspiracy behind all this, per se'. One of the commissioners asked today, why was there no attempted coordination to get helicopters to the top of the WTC's to rescue those trapped up there.....huh?
Seems like a logical question till you realize that the heat from the flames was so high and so labeled "blistering hot," that it was virtually physically impossible to get a helicopter remotely close and be useful. This was examined almost 2 years ago by the NYPD and FDNY.

Here's something further to think about when taking into account the words of the 'almighty' witch hunting 9/11 Commission: if they and others are pointing fingers at those who are titled 'rescuers,' all they and 'we' are doing is sending a slap in the face telegram to future would-be 'rescuers' that their efforts, in the long run, are or will be unappreciated and motives will be questioned, scrutinized, and criticized.

A great and lasting message to send.





seekerof

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Tomorrow Rudy Giuliani will appear before the commission. He will make mincemeat of this flabby assed Lehman in short order. Lehman dishonored those who gave their lives tring to save lives. This is something I would expect from Ben-Veniste.



from joi:
How about blaming the us military and government for their inept work in this mess...


How about we not be so concerned with placing blame except where it belongs - on al Qaeda.



dz

posted on May, 19 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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In order to solve the problem, they are looking in the completely wrong place. We don't need to look at what happened after the planes hit. We need to look at what happened before. Where did we fail? Why did someone not notice this happening? Why on earth did we not scramble jets to that area after the first plane hit? Why, out of the god knows how many airports in that area, did no radar pick up another plane heading in the direction of the towers? And if they did, why did they not report it in time, and if they did, why was nothing done? I find it extremely hard to believe that we have no jets that could've taken out that second plane. As sad as it would've been to see the people in the plane die, it would've saved thousands of lives from the second building collapsing.

I think perhaps they need to look at the buildings collapsing also. I've read several reports that talk about how the jet fuel from the planes doesn't even get hot enough to melt the steel. Why then did the buildings fall? Was it shady worksmanship from the get-go, or is there something we're not seeing?

This whole 9-11 thing seems like a complete F-U slap in the face to me. So many stupid things that just shouldn't be, are. Like how in god's name did we find a passport from one of the terrorists in the rubble, yet we barely found bodies? How did it survive the intense heat? What really happened to that plane that crashed in the field? Was it actually shot down, and if so, why that one and no others?

I hope this investigation is legit, and not just another bs 'please the public' thing.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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You know....

2800 people died at the WTC.....

25,000 got out alive.....

Yeah, things did not go perfectly that day, and there are many lessons to be learned for the future....

But these guys were heros and deserve to be treated as such.

I live a long way from NYC, but I still wear the FDNY hat I bought in September of 2001 with pride.


dz

posted on May, 19 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
How about we not be so concerned with placing blame except where it belongs - on al Qaeda.


How about we just don't play the blame game, and figure out how to avoid this in the future?

Seriously, what good is going to come out of saying "oh it's a military's fault", or "it's al queda's fault", or whatever. Nothing. It just gives us someone to be mad at.

What we really need is work on defense, so something like this doesn't happen again.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 12:22 AM
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as quoted by Seth Bullock
2800 people died at the WTC....


If this had occurred two to three hours later, imagine how many more this would have been multiplied by....frightening to even think about.

Though this all seems objective, for some of the Commission members to say and insinuate what they did today, in only the first day of the NYC hearings, amounts to almost being slanderous, if not appalling.



seekerof



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 01:06 AM
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You know it's a well known fact that people in certain industries stick together, and as someone who has had quite a bit of experience in the rescue field, including on Sept. 11th I'd like nothing more than to send these embarassments to America the hell out of my city. But we can't do that. Everyone is entitled to say what they want right? I certainly would never want to squash freedom of speech.

But as with all things there must always be a solution. In this case the solution needs to be the following. The United States government (all three branches on both sides of party lines) must issue a SINGLE all inclusive statement. The entire government must completely dissolve any ties to this commission and remove any form of sponsorship from it.

Drastic? No. The commission was supposed to be a body that would give us findings to help protect us. To find where the problems were and how to solve them. From it's first public proceedings it became obvious that the real purpose of these people was to do nothing of the sort. The real purpose they assigned themselves was to blame. Their job was not to blame. Their job was to find fact, lay out lists of errors, and provide input to America on how to fix those errors and prevent such things. They have failed miserably. Their final reports and findings are irrelevant because in their time in the limelight they have disgraced themselves and their country by becoming a bunch of hindsight wielding, partisan, ignorant, uninterested, rude, belligerent, uncaring (for lack of a better term) assholes.

What business do any of these unqualified elderly assclowns have criticizing a group of rescue workers that was FLUNG into the absolute worst scenario ever envisioned by anyone. These ignorant little bastards think that what... taking a class and reading a book would have made things better? Let me explain this to all those of you who weren't there very very plainly. I don't give a damn how many books and classes you'd gone through and how many lovely plans you'd devised. When you showed up to that scene your response was one thing and one thing only. "Holy #, what do we do now". And that statement repeated, over and over. When the first plane hit, when the second plane hit, when the first tower collapsed, when the second tower collapsed. And on and on and on. For some little snail in a suit to claim that rescue workers weren't worthy of being boy scouts is the most blasphemous thing I have heard come from anyone's mouth in the time since that day.

I look forward to Mayor Giuliani doing what he does best. Exposing liars and lowlifes for what they are really worth. I would personally love for this to be the final straw that destroys this waste of time and money. I would sign any petition demanding its disbanding.

A real commission without dinosaurs of politics needs to be formed. A commission including representatives from victims' families, from the rescue workers, from people who were impacted by this event. Not from grandstanding pigs who are hanging on to celebrity life by a thread. That thread is the same one that held this city together at one point. The collective flab of this inefficient gaggle of fools is tearing at it.

If there were problems in FDNYs response, HELP THEM SOLVE THEM, don't make crass comments insulting people who ran into an inferno to save others. New York does not need or want this band of fools here. Get the hell out of our city.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 05:35 AM
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This mornings NYPost:


HEROES RAGE AT WTC PROBE

This commission is an embarressment to itself, and to those families that lost loved ones in this tragedy. NYC should be outraged. Bravo to the NYPost for the rebuttal in what transpired in yesterday's hearings.



seekerof



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 05:37 AM
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I guess the commission is mad because the whole lot of them didn't die??? What absurdity.
to the commission...go crawl back under your rock.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Seth Bullock
You know....

2800 people died at the WTC.....

25,000 got out alive.....

Yeah, things did not go perfectly that day, and there are many lessons to be learned for the future....

But these guys were heros and deserve to be treated as such.



Funny...NYPD...one of the lowest paid PD's in the country...and FDNY....one of the lowest paid FD's in the country...both have been w/o a contract for two years...the city wont budge...they want a 15% pay decrease for all new hires...cut back medical...and make everyone work an extra 10 days per year all for a 3% increase in pay...once again...THANX...save people...get paid dick...and then the city slaps both in the face....what a sick world we live in...



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by dz

I hope this investigation is legit, and not just another bs 'please the public' thing.


I hope you're not clingng to any illusions that this commission is anything but the partisan, witch-hunting assclowns that have been described by several writers in this thread. They are a sad embarrasment to our government, especially Ben-Veniste and Kerrey. I don't know of any public that are pleased by this group.


from BasementAddix

save people...get paid dick...and then the city slaps both in the face....what a sick world we live in...

The city didn't do it...the commission did it.

Whatever. I too look forward to Giuliani's testimony today. I just want this commission to silently fade away.



[Edited on 19-5-2004 by jsobecky]



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 06:39 AM
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commision did it yesterday...the citys been doing it for years...



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 11:09 AM
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The relationship between the FDNY and NYPD, and the payment and contract issues are things that have been going on for a very long time and are not likely to vanish. While the image of people hugging and saying "you're worth it to us, here's a pay raise" would be a beautiful ending we all know that's not going to happen.

So there's issues. Yes, but they're our issues. And they are issues in which no one disgraces the memory of people who acted on behalf of their fellow man. I agree that budget cuts hitting firehouses is disgusting. But no one in the city's government forgets even for a split second that they are lifesavers.

Again I'd like to urge this commission to leave new york, which doesn't want them here, doesn't want to watch their circus-like proceedings, and is becoming less and less interested in what they have to say and report.

Disband. That would be the greatest way to show respect to the lives of the people you have # upon in your quest to be famous.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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So the people who die trying to help get the blame, the people in the offices in Washington go scott free. It's sick, actually makes me feel sick to think that a commission into 9/11 is now pinpointing blame towards the people who laid down there lives on that day and not the people who sit back and let it happen. They are chasing that scapegoat . . . . .


AF1

posted on May, 19 2004 @ 11:24 AM
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Everyday I lose more and more faith in this world. The men in those departments had no idea what they were getting involved in, while the Bush administration ignored constant warnings of Al quida and aren't held responsible.



posted on May, 19 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by earthtone
So the people who die trying to help get the blame, the people in the offices in Washington go scott free.

No, not quite true. The commission has already been in Washington, acting like a three-ring circus. Haven't you watched and listened to Ben-Veniste and others, spewing their partisan vitriol? Believe me, it was disgusting.


from AF1
while the Bush administration ignored constant warnings of Al quida and aren't held responsible.

Again, not a true statement. One just has to look at Richard Clarke's self-serving testimony to see that, even though he felt spurned and just wanted to sell books, the real intel problems started in the previous administration.

And if that isn't proof enough for you, how can anyone justify the fact that Jamie Gorelick is sitting on the panel?

You may dislike this administration, but to accuse them of things that are factually untrue is lazy thinking.






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