Joe Lieberman: I'll block vote on Harry Reid's plan

reply to post by hangedman13


Yes, the same Democrats that has voted for the downfall of the American nation, the same ones that alone with greedy Republicans took our jobs and our wealth builders out of America.

You know what I call them and I know all that people unemployed in the nation thanks to them call them, Traitors.

reply to post by AllexxisF1

I just called Joe's office and his staff member told me he will not get in the way of a filibuster and will allow this to go to the house floor.

That's really funny, because:
1.) Joe Lieberman is in the SENATE, not the HOUSE!
2.) There is NO such thing as a filibuster in the HOUSE. That tactic ONLY applies to the SENATE.
3.) ON TV today, Joe said he WOULD filibuster.

Now, do you want to change your "story"?

reply to post by marg6043

Sometimes I wonder about some peoples mentality when it comes to the priorities of the citizens of this nation

So what you're saying, Marg, is that someone who doesn't want the marginal tax rate in the US to rise to 80% has a mental problem?
Someone who doesn't want to let the GOVERNMENT control whether you get health care, and that senior citizen lives are not worth spending money on, is got a mental problem?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


No, thanks to the insurance companies hoax about socialized health care they will be the ones telling you what kind of manufactured packages you deserve because is mandatory or else.

Just step back and see the deception.

This is all theater. Mark my words the US will never get National Health Care there will be a new war before that happens and then they won't be able to do it because of the "new war"

The Demopublicans and Republicrats will put on a show for us and then when the elections come up the Dems will lose a bunch of seats and will no longer control all teh branches then you will never see Healthcare and the Dems will blame the Republicans.

Then there will be a crisis of some kind and no one will even remeber the Healthcare issue and in 10 years if we are all still here it will come up again at this time we will be involved in 5-6 wars and we will debate Healthcare again and the cycle will start all over.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by centurion1211

 

...the man can not even make his mind on which side works best for him when it comes to political parties.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by marg6043]

But you're just speculating that he's doing this for his own greed. What if he isn't?

What if Joe L. realizes that it takes the positive aspects of both parties plus some of the independent parties in order to best serve everyone? Isn't that the kind of Congressman we want in office - one who has his feet in all parties? Or do we want people that hold steadfastly to one political side?

For those who believe that government-run health insurance is a good thing, I ask you to look at what has happened to Medicare and Medicaid. They are literally bankrupt. How do you think that the government can be more efficient than private companies? The private health insurance companies run on a profit of 2.5%. Do you know ANY government program that delivers promised goods at only 97.5% of projected costs?
Do you really BELIEVE the government figures that this bill will only cost around $900 Billion? If it does, it will be the FIRST government program in HISTORY that came in at projected cost.
Remember that the US government is the organization that gave you $900 screw drivers!

Here is a mini-refresher course, which indicates how well Congress did on estimating Medicare costs when it was founded:

"ObamaCare plans to expand the government's role in insuring the American people," Boschwitz and Penny write. "The government is already the largest insurer in the health care business through Medicare. We are now told ObamaCare will save money."

How did it work out with Medicare? "Medicare rose from $5.1 billion in 1968 to $436.0 billion in 2007 an astounding increase of 85.5 times over the 40-year period." They ask whether Obamacare will do better and recall the famous Medicare projection of the cost of Medicare made by the government at the inception of the program:

Beware of government estimates about the future cost of ObamaCare. When Medicare was being considered in the mid-1960s, the government projected that the outlays for the program 25 years down the road would be $10 billion. Instead, in 1990, 25 years later, the outlays were $107 billion. Government estimates were off by a factor of more than 10!

Medicaid, the other large medical program currently in effect, outdid Medicare. Medicaid outlays in 1968 were $1.8 billion. In 2007 they had risen to $190.6 billion, an increase in dollar terms of 105.9 times.

And that is only the Federal outlay number. There is a roughly equal Medicaid amount spent by the states due to federal mandates.

Without those mandates we would not be reading about the large deficits that most states endure.

The idea of expanding the federal role in the medical arena is truly fiscally irresponsible. The claim that money will be saved through government competition with the private insurance system (with government setting the rules!) is the height of fantasy.

www.powerlineblog.com...
No one denies that we need health care reform. However, having the government run the program is change alright - the same change Obama promised and did not deliver on.
Also remember where the "government" gets it money from -YOU and ME! If you think your taxes are high now, see what happens when government health care kicks in.
It seems like the same people that believed Obama's promises still believe he can deliver.
Fool you once-shame on him, fool you twice-shame on you.

Quite honestly, you people under 55 are the ones that will suffer the most, as will your children and grandchildren. These programs have and will continue to dig a hole for you and them, that they will not be able to get out of. You are condemning them to a life of a 3rd world country, but what the heck, it's only their lives, and rather than use logic, to realize that you can't bring in 10 to 40 million more people to health care, without raising taxes drastically. To make matters worse, the people you are bringing in, for the most part, will not be the people that pay those taxes. That will be reserved for those that work for a living.
Enjoy the socialist paradise that Obama will bring. Just look at the old Soviet Union, or 90 miles south of Miami to see what a paradise awaits you.

It's easy to blame the insurance companies, but consider that their profits are only 2.5%.
Instead, look at the lawsuits, and look in the mirror.Would you PAY for the tests that you get now if you had to pay for them? Without torte reform, and a change in attitude of patients, health care will continue to rise at an alarming rate, and public health care will only make the matter worse, not better.

Originally posted by hangedman13
reply to post by marg6043

 

No actually Joe is a old style democrat. More of the forget the crap w/the rest of the world and lets focus on the at home. He is one of the few who doesn't follow the party line, especially since that line has little to do with what the party once stood for.

I think you're correct on Lieberman. Lieberman is a politician first and foremost but I think there are still remnants of a public servant in there.

reply to post by marg6043

No, thanks to the insurance companies hoax about socialized health care they will be the ones telling you what kind of manufactured packages you deserve because is mandatory or else. Just step back and see the deception.

Marg, if you don't like the health insurance company you have, change. If you don't want health care insurance, don't purchase it.
NO ONE is forcing you to go with a specific company, or forcing you to buy it.
That will NOT be the case if we end up with government health insurance.
YOU WILL buy it, or else PAY a FINE for not buying it, and if Obama has his way of a single payer system, you WON'T have a choice.
You see, many Americans DO WANT to have a choice. Sorry you don't believe that we should.

reply to post by sos37


If he wasn't so much a sell out he should have come to the conclusion that his vote and support for globalization is killing the nation but what has he done about it along with the rest of the morons in Washington, no a darn thing he is just like any other corrupted politician taking money and putting it in his pockets and screw the nation.

Wake up my friend, this not about Democrats or Republicans alone, this is our future, take a good look at the people that are ruling our nation they are taking our nation to the ground.

They deserve no loyalties, is not an honest politician in America the sooner you understand this perhaps the sooner people will start thinking about how to get rid of all the morons and corrupted government we have.

Remember hope brings us Obama and what fiasco that has been.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Gets what I am fighting for others, because my husband and I are under the retiree military insurance, yes run by the government and you know we are happy with it, it delivers and works for us, and no, is not free, but under Obama give away to the private insurance business we will may lose our government run insurance, yes can you believe that, and be forced to pay for private insurance even when congress promise that military retirees and vets would be protected with health care provided by the government, for free but that change we still pay premiums and they are not the predicted premiums that under the private insurance mandate will be.

So trust me I know what I am talking about, because I am under Humana triacare, military, retirees and vet options.

Without a public option is nothing but the biggest hoax for the American people that still works and makes a check.

I can never understand why people don't realize that this is not just a case where we are either voting to 'save people' or 'let them die'. Reform is needed. But this is not the time. And this is not the way it should be handled.

One of the reasons that insurance costs have sky-rocketed is because of insurance fraud. Add to this the number of people siphoning money from disability, welfare, etc. that don't actually deserve it. Mind you, these programs are beneficial and necessary for SOME people, but a great number are simply taking advantage of the system and profiting in big ways.

My neighbor for example collects disability every month for over 6 years for a back injury. Apparently, standing outside in his yard nearly everyday hitting golf balls doesn't hurt his back. This is where the money should go -- get the people out of the system that don't belong there first! At least then the money spend will go to those that actually need it. Yes, I realize it will never be perfect and that there will always be scams to contend with -- but at least make the attempt! Turning a blind eye to it is just more wasted money.

Wouldn't it make more sense to spend a few billion dollars of the allotted healthcare reform money and invest in going after fradulent claims, welfare lifers, and insurance scammers? Once you rid the system of all (most) of the wrong-doers, then at least you will have an idea of what the ACTUAL cost of healthcare is.

Put it this way: If you owned a company and it was losing 10 - 15% of its inventory every month due to theft, what would you do? Would you try to find out who was stealing from you or would you simply just spend an additional 15% each month on inventory to make up for the losses?

As with the bailouts, there is no concrete plan for success and recovery. This healthcare reform bill is as inadequate as all of the other stimulus nonsense. The ongoing mantra is this administration is simple and costly: Let's just pump money into it. Further, why on Earth at this point would ANYONE think that the government running ANYTHING is going to be successful?

What has the government done to show that they can effectively manage anything? They own the banks, car companies, mortgages, -- all of which ARE STILL FAILING.

Cash for Clunkers? Disaster. Remember inadequate funding after 5 days?
Job creation? Where?
Banks? Still losing money. Still closing.
Mortgages? Foreclosures continue to rise.

Social security? Welfare? Medicaid? Medicare?

Can any one of those programs be considered a success at this point?

Keep in mind, had medicaid and medicare worked like they were supposed to -- we wouldn't even be discussing healthcare reform right now.

And before anyone says: "Obama inherited this mess." Who cares? If you get promoted to replace someone that wasn't doing their job, I should think you would actually be required to improve something -- not just shrug your shoulders and say "It was the other guy."

Obama has had plenty of time to prove he is at least moving us in the right direction -- it doesn't take a full recovery -- just to be heading towards one would be helpful. But we're not. Instead, in many ways, we are worse off than we were in December.

reply to post by lpowell0627

One of the reasons that insurance costs have sky-rocketed is because of insurance fraud. Add to this the number of people siphoning money from disability, welfare, etc. that don't actually deserve it. Mind you, these programs are beneficial and necessary for SOME people, but a great number are simply taking advantage of the system and profiting in big ways. My neighbor for example collects disability every month for over 6 years for a back injury. Apparently, standing outside in his yard nearly everyday hitting golf balls doesn't hurt his back. This is where the money should go -- get the people out of the system that don't belong there first! At least then the money spend will go to those that actually need it. Yes, I realize it will never be perfect and that there will always be scams to contend with -- but at least make the attempt! Turning a blind eye to it is just more wasted money.

Excellent post! Starred. You have hit the nail on the head. Torte reform is sorely needed, as is elimination of fraud. Like you, we had a neighbor that was in his early 30's, and on permanent disability. He wore a neck brace when in public. However, he and his wife would leave in their car, and go to a private country club, where he would remove his neck brace, while in the car, and walk to the tennis courts, and play tennis with his wife. I mentioned this to someone who worked the Social Security Adminsitration. That person told his boss about it, and his boss said to forget it. According to his boss, it would be more expensive to investigate that person. Now, aside from the fact that his boss was criminally negligent, there is no way that a person receiving disability payments every month for the rest of his life, would result in less payout than an investigation would.
The fraud is everywhere.
As you and others have pointed out, there is no way that the government can be more financially efficient in managing health care. In addition, for anyone that has had to deal with government red tape, you have to understand that for those with time-critical medical needs, they would probably DIE before the red tape is navigated.

If want to know who Joe Lieberman works for...why don't you take a look at his top campaign contributers.

You'll find...just like Obama....that the banks fill the top spots.

By the way...Joe Lieberman was once for universal health care.

This has nothing to do with his principles...the man is a shill.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


You know I got two major surgeries in the run government care and guess what the first one from the time I was diagnosed and surgery only 1 month and because I wanted a second opinion, the second surgery from the time I was diagnosed to weeks for surgery.

My cost, only the meals and I got a private room also, how about that.

People can talk all they want about how government run things, but with the experience I have and my husband have we have never seen anybody left to die and we have never have to wait for any long lines.

Is all a hoax and a lie.

Why is that? because big insurance companies spend millions of dollar on propaganda.

The government can do a good job only if they will stop sucking up to private interest.

The government is not the problem, the problems is that pimps in Washington buying our our politicians whores.

If the government was allow and even force to work for the people this nation will not be in the mess we are right now.

Greed is not going to stop with private insurance running the entire system of health care in the nation and that is fact.



[edit on 28-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

You see, many Americans DO WANT to have a choice. Sorry you don't believe that we should.

What choice do they have now? If a couple is LUCKY ENOUGH to both have a job...then that family has a choice. IF not...there isn't one.....which means they have none and will increase rates for everyone else when they go to the emergency room to get treatment with insane costs that they can never pay.

I'm not a big advocate for government run healthcare....but I know what I am not for.

The only time you really have a choice is when you are wealthy enough to get the best treatment possible. Unfortunately...that's not how it works for most people as many of us have nothing!

15 percent of the country is on unemployment...many of them most likely without coverage because it's impossible to pay for COBRA on unemployment without neglecting other things such as house payments, etc.

BTW...Insurance fraud is nothing but a small fraction of the problem. ALl I hear from the Conservative side is TORT REFORM. Got any other ideas?

How about this one? START ENFORCING ANTI-TRUST LAWS DAMNIT!!!

Yes...the insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws. Want to end the state restrictions on health insurance...well then that will eventually lead to just a couple insurance companies to choose from....and a CORPORATION is not a democracy. You don't have representation in a corporation.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

You see, many Americans DO WANT to have a choice. Sorry you don't believe that we should.

Do you really think THIS is a choice? Do you not realize that government is simply going to undercut every other insurance company out there? While doing so, the insurance companies are going to have to raise their rates to account for all of the employers that have already agreed to participate in a gov't run option?

If someone holds a gun to your head and says: Hand your money over or die. Is that really a choice?

The government is going to offer incentives for companies to participate. Employers and employees that choose not to participate are going to pay a fine/fee for carrying "luxury insurance".

How is that a choice?

If you ask me, all they are missing is the proverbial gun.

reply to post by marg6043

Gets what I am fighting for others, because my husband and I are under the retiree military insurance, yes run by the government and you know we are happy with it, it delivers and works for us, and no, is not free, but under Obama give away to the private insurance business we will may lose our government run insurance, yes can you believe that, and be forced to pay for private insurance even when congress promise that military retirees and vets would be protected with health care provided by the government, for free but that change we still pay premiums and they are not the predicted premiums that under the private insurance mandate will be. So trust me I know what I am talking about, because I am under Humana triacare, military, retirees and vet options.

Marg, You have proven my point. Your insurance is NOT run by the GOVERNMENT. It is run by a PRIVATE company, Humana. Inc:

LOUISVILLE, Ky.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Humana Military Healthcare Services, a wholly owned subsidiary of Humana Inc. (NYSE: HUM)

www.businesswire.com...

The ONLY thing that the government does is PAY for your insurance. It does not run it in any way.

Joe Lie*erman can stop any bill with his bad breath.

Joe, just threaten to breathe in the face of anyone who supports Reid's bill.

Joe Lieberman For President 2012

It's time to exhale America.

reply to post by David9176

What choice do they have now? If a couple is LUCKY ENOUGH to both have a job...then that family has a choice. IF not...there isn't one.....which means they have none and will increase rates for everyone else when they go to the emergency room to get treatment with insane costs that they can never pay.

I'm not a big advocate for government run healthcare....but I know what I am not for.

OK, David, so what ARE you for? You are quick to criticize, but I haven't heard a solution from you.
I hope it's not what you posted on your thread: "To Hell with the Health Insurance Companies"

In the OP, you said:

The health insurance industry is nothing but a leech on human life. PERIOD.

I don't want to see government take over health care...I'd like to see it non-profit and take out the middle man...THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY....which makes nothing and does nothing for the public but MOVE NUMBERS AROUND.

Very interesting!
Non-Profit? Gee, now who do you WANT to work for free? The doctors, the government workers?

The only time you really have a choice is when you are wealthy enough to get the best treatment possible. Unfortunately...that's not how it works for most people as many of us have nothing!

Actually, I'm retired, and my employer does not provide health care for my wife and I. I BUY our health insurance, and we are not rich. In fact, 70% of our retirement income goes to health insurance. That is OUR CHOICE - yes CHOICE. No one gave me the insurance, no one forced me to buy it, WE CHOSE to buy it, because health is more important than material things.

You say "Many of us have nothing". When you use the pronoun "us", you are including yourself. Earlier you said you have employer provided health insurance, and that it provides 80%. I would guess that such insurance is actually considered a "Cadillac Plan". Whether you know it or not, 80% coverage is considered EXCELLENT today. You may be only paying a small premium, but my guess is that the value of that plan is over $21,000 for a family plan. That makes it eligible for the 40% excise tax.

15 percent of the country is on unemployment...many of them most likely without coverage because it's impossible to pay for COBRA on unemployment without neglecting other things such as house payments, etc.

Actually, last March 1, the government passed a law providing laid-off employees the ability to buy Cobra coverage for only 35% of it's actual cost. With unemployment, most workers should have no trouble covering that. If not, then I suggest that you bought a house for much more than you could afford, if you cannot cover the mortgage on unemployment.

BTW...Insurance fraud is nothing but a small fraction of the problem. ALl I hear from the Conservative side is TORT REFORM. Got any other ideas?

Actually, David, you must be selectively reading just what you want. Several people stated that claims fraud is a huge problem, and accounts for a large portion of medical costs today. In addition, conservatives have also proposed :
1.) Forbidding companies from rejecting applicants because of pre-existing conditions.
2.) Allowing people to port their coverage from one job to the next.
3.) Allowing insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines.

How about this one? START ENFORCING ANTI-TRUST LAWS DAMNIT!!!

Yes...the insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws. Want to end the state restrictions on health insurance...well then that will eventually lead to just a couple insurance companies to choose from....and a CORPORATION is not a democracy. You don't have representation in a corporation.

Your statement that ending state restrictions will lead to fewer companies, flies in the face of logic. In fact, such a proposal would actually allow smaller companies to grow bigger, as their potential market place would expand greatly.

Furthermore, I guess you do not understand what a corporation is. Most corporations are stock corporations, and as a result have stock holders. Those stock holders actually control much of the activity of those corporations.

I would suggest that you spend more time researching this area, before you post. Using profanity such as damnit does not enhance your argument, but shows that you are arguing from emotions, and not logic and facts.