Police: Gang rape outside school dance lasted over two hours

Originally posted by Wookiep

Right. And if your kid was one of the ones who raped that girl, it's your fault for allowing him to go to school.

Its not my fault because I let him go to school, its my fault for not properly and completly educating him on how to treat women, stay out of dangerous situations, and not cave in to peer presure. is it possible some kids turn out bad despite the parents best effort? Sure it is, but that doesn't minimize their responsibility. In the eyes of the victims and the courts, it doesnt matter how much you tried, it only matters how much you failed. Again, if people arent up to the task, and not ready to face the challenges and pay the price of being the guardian of a child, then dont have kids. Having kids unintentially doesnt mean jack either, whether you wnated them or not, you are responsible.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Wookiep

 

No its the fault of the school for not providing the neccessary security. Now if I knew that, and still let her go, then yeah I would share some of the blame. Any parent that allows their kid to go into a potentially dangerous situation shares some of the burden if something happens. To me allowing your kid to go to a dance should not be considered a potentially dangerous situation. Although after this story, that may not be true anymore.

I predict the school is going to be hearing from some lawyers very soon.
They share some of th blame for sure.

edit-just saw the post above me, if it were off campus then the school doesnt appear to be liable.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Gigatronix]

You know to be frank - and my opinion may not be popular and may even be considered ignorant but as I see it... it is the fault of the brain-dead soulless idiotic dumb scum that did the deed.

Parents? Schools? How about blaming the actual imbeciles that did this?

reply to post by Gigatronix


Yes, I understand how the court views things etc. Yes, I understand needing to be a responsible parent. Yes, I understand taking whatever known precationary steps to prevent harm upon your child and others. the list goes on. That comes with parenting. I disagree when it comes to a child commiting a crime and not being held responsible, period. Difference of opinion. A parent can take steps until they are blue, but when do we draw the line??

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

Yes, I agree in this case the shcool should be partly to blame as well. I just can't figure out how you can say these kids are not to blame. Theres absolutely no justifying any one of them getting away with it, or a simple slap on the wrist. Maybe they will be tried as adults. I sure hope so, and I hope they get the whole book thrown at em.

Oh well, difference in opinion.

I never said they weren't to blame. I never said they weren't responsible either. I hope they all rot in hell, after rotting in prison for a good long while. All Im saying is the parents are fair game for lawsuits and criminal proceedings. They can lock the kids up, throw awaythe key, whatever I dont care. But I alos have no moral or ethical problems with the parents taking a hit too. If parents aren't held accountable, then why not send your kids out to deal drugs and be prostitutes, they do all the dirty work, you keep the money, and when the cops come around, you say "Hey it was all them I had no idea! Lock em up i dont care! And dont believe anything they tell you, their liars and thieves and whores" Making parents share blame and justice helps keep parents honest. I gotta pay attention to little johny cuz if he goes out and kills somebody Im screwed.

See what happens when you can no longer physically discipline kids? Bet the controlling interest on my soul that these "kids" never were disciplined in their lives. One was 19 and a former student? Why was he even near the school? Those boys should all get to star in a prison rape video, Oh wait they might at least get some of that if found guilty.

reply to post by InTrueFiction
never said the perps weren't to blame, or that the should get off while the parents pay through the nose. never said anything like that. But if you wnat to get to the root of the problem, you gotta dig deeper. You can't solve this problem by locking up the bad guys. It helps of course, but obviously prison isn't a strong enough deterrant, cuz people still do bad sheeeit. Why do we have a whole generation that gets its morals from MTV and thinks cellphones are the center of the universe? maybe because of the parents?? maybe because of the environment they are brought up in? Maybe because of the culture?

The problem with our society is were letting each generation slide further and further into depravity. The people procreating then not guiding there children properly is a HUGE part of the problem. You want to try and fix something after its broken, or maintain it so it never breaks?

reply to post by Wookiep


There is no line. If your kid becomes uncontrollable and unresponsive to your rules, you send em off to boot camp. Send em to juvenile detention. you cant get out from under your obligation. You do whatever you have to do to put them in check. As soon as you draw a line, parent everywhere will skate right up to it and exploit it.

Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

If parents aren't held accountable, then why not send your kids out to deal drugs and be prostitutes, they do all the dirty work, you keep the money, and when the cops come around, you say "Hey it was all them I had no idea! Lock em up i dont care! And dont believe anything they tell you, their liars and thieves and whores" Making parents share blame and justice helps keep parents honest. I gotta pay attention to little johny cuz if he goes out and kills somebody Im screwed.

This is true bad parenting such as what you stated above does exist all over the place. Any parent who sends their kids out to sell drugs should not only not be a parent but yes, locked up as well. I am by no means saying that parents should slack off on raising their children. I would not justify the acts of bad parenting as I see it everyday it seems. All I'm saying in cases like this, the kids who perform the act should not be let off the hook, and should get punished by the full extent of the law. The parent should be punished based on their actual involvement of the case. If the parent knew the kid was going out to drink off-campus then the parent should share some of the responibility as well.

Tragic. Unfortunately, the more people that get involved, the less likely it is that anyone will help. Because so many people are involved, people might even question their own assumptions.

"Is she being raped? No, it can't be! Look at all the people here! If it was rape, someone would do something! They probably know something I don't. Maybe she's just GIVING it away!"

Anyone remember how a woman was raped in a public park in day light with lots of people standing around watching? Bystanders thought it was just a couple trying to get some thrills, despite the woman calling for help.

Wow, what sick bunch of little (can't say what I really think of these animals, sorry if I insulted any animals they don't even act this badly and the words I want to use'll get me banned) Everyone one of those (bleeps) should have the same thing done to them. I mean, didn't even one of their beebe brains hint to them that this was wrong???? Sorry, so ticked now at how not one person tried to help.

reply to post by Wookiep
I agree 100% I think you have been misunderstading me. I think the perps should get a double barrel shotgun blast of justice to the face. but that doesn't solve anything does it? It makes everybody feel good, but it doesnt adress the real problem. You want to find out why a kid flipped out? Look at the parents. Look at the environment. look at the culture. maybe then we can get some useful information that will afford us a glimpse at the treu problem. These kids aren't the problem, they are the byproduct of the problem.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Wookiep

 

There is no line. If your kid becomes uncontrollable and unresponsive to your rules, you send em off to boot camp. Send em to juvenile detention. you cant get out from under your obligation. You do whatever you have to do to put them in check. As soon as you draw a line, parent everywhere will skate right up to it and exploit it.

And if you send your kid off to boot camp and kills a kid there? Oh yeah...blame the camp, forgot. :p I'm really not trying to be smart..But to me there IS a line (or should be), and the fact that there isn't one, I think is a huge reason for why crime by kids has increased so drastically. They think they can get away with anything because they're just going to blame the parents! Kids have it WAY too easy in this society.



[edit on 27-10-2009 by Wookiep]

Originally posted by Wookiep

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Wookiep

 

There is no line. If your kid becomes uncontrollable and unresponsive to your rules, you send em off to boot camp. Send em to juvenile detention. you cant get out from under your obligation. You do whatever you have to do to put them in check. As soon as you draw a line, parent everywhere will skate right up to it and exploit it.

And if you send your kid off to boot camp and kills a kid there? Oh yeah...blame the camp, forgot. :p I'm really not trying to be smart..But to me there IS a line, and the fact that there isn't one, I think is a huge reason for why crime by kids has increased so drastically. They think they can get away with anything because they're just going to blame the parents! Kids have it WAY too easy in this society.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Wookiep]

Well, yeah, you blame the camp, you pay money for a service, I would expect them to provide ample security and oversight. Do I still share some blame, I guess. They were not under my supervision, if they were in juvenile detention they are wards of the state. If they killed somebody in camp, and I get sued, Ill go before the judge and say" hey i couldnt control him, I sent him to juvenile detention. I gave the wardens all the information I had, and signed over custody to them."

If you wanna draw a line, go ahead, just remember the old saying, give em an inch and theyll take a mile.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Wookiep

 

I agree 100% I think you have been misunderstading me. I think the perps should get a double barrel shotgun blast of justice to the face. but that doesn't solve anything does it? It makes everybody feel good, but it doesnt adress the real problem. You want to find out why a kid flipped out? Look at the parents. Look at the environment. look at the culture. maybe then we can get some useful information that will afford us a glimpse at the treu problem. These kids aren't the problem, they are the byproduct of the problem.

I also agree with that..to a *point* The reason I say this is because kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. Now, parents are the #1 influence in a childs life, absolutely. I will agree that bad parenting can cause serious damage to a childs overall well being and mental/pysical health. Any parent that causes this type of harm should be thrown in jail for child abuse. (and theres more in this country that can be imagined unfortunately.)
However, they also have minds of their own more than we give them credit for. Most teenagers go through a confusing stage, an angry stage *regardless* of what types of parents they have. They are capable of thinking for themselves and aren't as "fragile" as this society makes them. To a point I agree that the parents are the problem...but more times than we would like to admit, the child who commits the unthinkable act, *is* the problem. Think about this. If that child had decent parents that didn't ever pose such a thing to society, is it the parent, or the child who is endangering society? If that child is locked up for good, problem solved.



[edit on 27-10-2009 by Wookiep]

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by InTrueFiction

 

never said the perps weren't to blame, or that the should get off while the parents pay through the nose. never said anything like that. But if you wnat to get to the root of the problem, you gotta dig deeper. You can't solve this problem by locking up the bad guys. It helps of course, but obviously prison isn't a strong enough deterrant, cuz people still do bad sheeeit. Why do we have a whole generation that gets its morals from MTV and thinks cellphones are the center of the universe? maybe because of the parents?? maybe because of the environment they are brought up in? Maybe because of the culture?

The problem with our society is were letting each generation slide further and further into depravity. The people procreating then not guiding there children properly is a HUGE part of the problem. You want to try and fix something after its broken, or maintain it so it never breaks?

I am extremely sympathetic to your point honestly. I worked a few years for social security in my country and I know it is hard puzzle to solve. I worked with kids, I worked with parents, I worked with teachers (they sure love that ) but in the end - just as an example:

- One of the kids I was working with (age 16) was showing progress, was doing better at school, we were talking to his parents, family life seemed to be getting better - one night he set fire to a person. Why? For fun he said.

What I am saying is that at some point the crime and its consequences is so great that it is no longer about "the root of the problem". And in this situation - forgive me for my opinion - the crime is so foul that the root? It is really hard for me to see an article about a girl that was raped and humiliated for over 2 hours... and think about the roots of the problem.

Yes there is work to be done to revitalize and bring a future to these generations. Yes these families need to be granted more room and daytime to educate their children too.

But in my opinion there are boundaries to what can be blamed on society. There's a limit to what can be blamed on parents and schools. Gang-raping a girl to an audience crosses those boundaries. Not helping a girl that is being raped crosses those boundaries. Laughing at her while it is being done... crosses those boundaries.

They chose to do it. They are to blame. Many other circumstances of their lives I am sure justify a lot of their actions but gang-rape? Further more watching gang-rape? Nothing justifies that.

reply to post by hangedman13


You really think not spanking a kid had anything to do with this? Your talking about psychotic behavior. There are are a whole lot of other ingrediants to this then corpreal punishment.

reply to post by InTrueFiction


Exactly what I've been trying to convey several times...but apparently didn't do a very good job of lol. Kudos, and star.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Wookiep]

For everyone going on about the degradation of society and how horrible the world is, there is neither more nor less crime then a hundered, two hundred, three hundred years ago. The only difference is that you hear about it on television.

These same type of horrible crimes have always happened. Before video games, television, internet, whatever.

A long complex history has created these teens. Like I said, most likely it was a gang. And gangs are developed when people in poverty need a "family" and have no other choice but to join a gang.

And this is not unlike horrible things gangs do. I heard a story about how a local leader lured his 6 month old girlfriend into the woods, had sex with her, and then him and the other gang members beat her and decapitated her because she snitched to police.

Long before video games and tvs, Hells Angels would make women clean their bikes. If there was even a little smudge, the women would be gang raped as punishment.

Why do you think it is called gang rape? And not group rape?

In the roman coloseum, exotic women were brought in from other countries and gang raped by several men in front of the whole crowd as entertainment.



Before proclaiming how scarey society is, realize you are hearing about one event, involving 15 people, out of 360 MILLION in the United States. If it wasn't sensational, it wouldn't be news.

What you don't hear about, is the person rescuing 20 puppies today. Or the man who bought 600 girl scout cookies, or the anonymous donations. Because that doesn't make news.

If you never watched the television, does the outside world really seem that bad? If you only went by what you saw in your neighborhood.

I have seen bad neighborhoods. Trust me, the monsters they develope come from a lot more sinister material then video games, movies, and microsoft. They are created. They are abused, neglected, from the moment they are born. They are created, by people. By society who throws them away.

Living in areas that are high crime, they are like war vets. They spend 24/7 watching their backs, always near death, being taught that you take what you want.

And no one has anyone to blame but society itself for letting it continue to happen.

I read an involved story about a young kid, 16, taken out of the ghetto, gave an urban life, job, and education. He said it took him 2 years to get out of the habit of darting in doorways, being weary of every person, wondering if they are going to kill you. Wonder when your gonna be arrested. Wondering how your going to steal or rob your income. Who you are going to have to sell drugs for.


This silliness about spanking and video games isn't it people. Understand the urban environment first, and then you see how the monsters were created.

Because the real thing is scarier.

My last point, and my personal one. I would only have one word as punishment for the tools of the perps if that were me or my daughters: cheese grater.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Richmond High School Students by Ethnicity: American Indian - 1 (0%) Asian - 211 (12%) Black - 244 (14%) Hispanic - 1277 (72%) White - 35 (2%)

Does this mean that, oh I better not go there ,

just hang the bastards