Why is Everyone Against the Masons?, page 2

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reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 10:52 AM by ThaLoccster

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by downtown436
Have you read "Morals and Dogma"?
Because if not, you might be surprised to find that they do in fact worship lucifer.

Have YOU read "Morals and Dogma?"
Because if not, you might be surprised to find that out of context quoting doesn't prove squat.
Well, whether they know it or not masonry is evil.
How so?
Are you a mason? Do you really know what they do? I do.
Are YOU a mason? How do YOU really know what we do?
I am not a "bible thumper" but I believe in God. He is not the same as Lucifer, which is the god the Masons worship.
Masonry's not a religion. Members of Masonry worship whatever god they personally choose. It is not the place of Masonry to tell them who or how to worship.
They worships Lucifer and his Demons. If you don't know about this stuff, you are not very high up, and playing with something you don't understand.
What fantasy novel have you been reading? Not a bible thumper, but you believe in demons? Actual horned little guys with pointy tails? Wow. Just... Wow.
Because they are evil, Lucifer worshiping, Demon people that do bad things to other people to get ahead in life.
Such as...?

[edit on 10/27/2009 by JoshNorton]

I grew interested in Masons because I wanted to find out who Albert Pike was. He is from where I live, there is a statue and a street here named after him. One day I was curious as to who Albert Pike was, and set off on a journey.

Its been awhile since I have read Morals & Dogma, I haven't read it cover to cover. I could dig it out if I need to but, doesn''t it go in to great detail about how its higher levels lie to the lower level, and so on until at the bottom you are just working your way through finding out "truths?"

Does it not also say that although Masonry as a whole is "religionless" that the enlightened at the top of the pyramid (scheme?) infact do worship "Lucifer the light bearer"?

I'm not intending to throw stones, just clear up my interpretation as it were.

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 11:29 AM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
Does it not also say that although Masonry as a whole is "religionless" that the enlightened at the top of the pyramid (scheme?) infact do worship "Lucifer the light bearer"?

Not at all. Pike doesn't believe in a devil...

The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.

For the Initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God PAN; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.
sacred-texts.com...

Pike explains it this way

It is by His uttered Word that God reveals Himself to us; not alone in the visible and invisible but intellectual creation, but also in our convictions, consciousness, and instincts. Hence it is that certain beliefs are universal. The conviction of all men that God is good led to a belief in a Devil, the fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil, and make it consistent with the Infinite Power, Wisdom, and Benevolence of God.
sacred-texts.com...

Man created "Lucifer" as a way to explain away the bad things that happen in the world. But God is supreme, and evil cannot exist without his permission. It is this duality that is later explained by Pike.

Of that Equilibrium between Good and Evil, and Light and Darkness in the world, which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good: by attaining to the knowledge of which equilibrium we can, through Faith, see that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty.

Sympathy and Antipathy, Attraction and Repulsion, each a Force of nature, are contraries, in the souls of men and in the Universe of spheres and worlds; and from the action and opposition of each against the other, result Harmony, and that movement which is the Life of the Universe and the Soul alike. They are not antagonists of each other. The force that repels a Planet from the Sun is no more an evil force, than that which attracts the Planet toward the central Luminary; for each is created and exerted by the Deity, and the result is the harmonious movement of the obedient Planets in their elliptic orbits, and the mathematical accuracy and unvarying regularity of their movements.
sacred-texts.com...

[edit on 10/27/2009 by JoshNorton]

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 11:32 AM by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ThaLoccster

Its been awhile since I have read Morals & Dogma, I haven't read it cover to cover. I could dig it out if I need to but, doesn''t it go in to great detail about how its higher levels lie to the lower level, and so on until at the bottom you are just working your way through finding out "truths?"

No. Pike believed that the Masons were derived from the Knights Templar, and that the historical link was hidden in the high degrees for protection. He further believed that those who wrote the Blue Degrees "intentioanlly misled" the new member by not mentioning the Templars.

Pike's ideas in this regard have long since been shown to be in error, and there is o longer any serious debate about it within the Masonic fraternity.

Does it not also say that although Masonry as a whole is "religionless" that the enlightened at the top of the pyramid (scheme?) infact do worship "Lucifer the light bearer"?

No. Pike never said anything about "worshiping Lucifer". In one passage, Pike quotes another author (Eliphas Levi) in translating "Lucifer" as "light bearer", which of course is true.

Concerning the other post, "Lucifer" is a term used for Jesus in the Latin Vulgate, not KJV.

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 11:36 AM by ThaLoccster

Thanks for the comments guys, I'll be digging my copy out so I can try to understand the context more.

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 05:06 PM by adama1

What people do not know they fear, and when someone fears something they usually resort to saying it is this or that because they don't really know what it is.

reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 03:24 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Masonic Light

Doh! Got the wrong version

Anyways, as to the templars the biggest case against them is that there is a very long time span between the conviction of the templars and the creation of masonry. And there is no evidence of any "missing link".. I know history is not absolute, but without any evidence you cannot just assume your version, or another version you found on the internet is correct... its just nonsense..

reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 03:34 AM by halfmanhalfamazing

Thats because most people base their lives on religion, we are all crazy and do not know what we want and what is right or wrong. So we listen to people and prophets (like Obama, Zuma, Kim Jong-il, Bible etc) and follow their lead willingly and blindly with the exception of a few people who realise that something is wrong (very dangerous and unpatriotic. Might even get you killed) who rebel or refuse to follow.

This is what happened to the Masons. They were the "rebels" and didn't follow.

reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 03:21 PM by RuneSpider

reply to post by Rockpuck

What's your opinion, then, on the Regius Poem? Put's Masonry back as far as 924.

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 07:48 AM by Raider of Truth

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I like Lucifer, i read into him soudns like someone that had a hard time because he gave knowledge to us. If you were to become a freemason can you say you follow Lucifer? or has it got to be organised God's?

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 08:13 AM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
I like Lucifer, i read into him soudns like someone that had a hard time because he gave knowledge to us. If you were to become a freemason can you say you follow Lucifer? or has it got to be organised God's?

I doubt you'd get very far. And I've never met a Lucifarian who thought that Lucifer was the Grand Architect of the Universe, the creator of all things, and the Supreme Being. In every mythology that includes him, he's not top dog...he's subservient to a higher power, and it's that power you have to recognize to become a Mason.

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 01:56 PM by KSigMason

I wonder, is Lucifer the Prometheus of Christianity?

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 02:01 PM by Equinox99

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by downtown436

Masons DO NOT believe "we" or any other Human, is a God. We do not strive to be Gods, view ourselves as equalss to God, nor do we believe that one could reach a level of God like status.

Our religious beliefs albeit diverse, must recognize a higher authority. If one cannot swear by a higher authority, their word is essentially baseless. If you cannot revere, fear, love or otherwise worship the source of your oath, as a fallible Human we could never consider your search for Light to be sincere, see?

But anyways.

The vast majority of people like the Masons. The number one reason for not liking the Masons is watching to many youtube videos and believing everything that you hear or see. The second biggest reason, especially for the common person, is religious intollerance and ignorance.

So the "key of Solomon", care to elaborate on that? How masons worship 3 stars, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. The checkered floor, and how every president is sworn in on one? How ever bloody president is a Freemason/Satanist.

I got nothing against lowly Freemasons, I only have a problem with the majority.

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 02:15 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I like Lucifer, i read into him soudns like someone that had a hard time because he gave knowledge to us. If you were to become a freemason can you say you follow Lucifer? or has it got to be organised God's?

You know my friend I love history. I try to find out as much about everything from history as I can. It's challenging because history changes as regimes and conquerers and winners sometimes write it. History can be confusing for that reason too as you go back in time to older sources in actual books that were written in various periods of time.

You can't always be sure whether subsequent information was found that can change the story and if that information is valid or not, or whether someone is deliberately changing the story for political purposes.

The truth is uniquely subjective. I am just a mere mortal, and an agnostic. I believe there is a higher power than my own, I haven't a clue as to what that is because I am earth and flesh bound and only have a narrow view of the universe because of that.

If Lucifer was a really great cook or had a really great Restaurant I would follow him, because truly the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

The truth is I hold no allegiance to any God or Government, movement, society but reserve judgement on most things and reserve the right to change my mind.

Some people take all those things seriously, I don't. They don't cook me dinner!

Thankfully I am a great cook and don't need them too! Yeah for me!

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 02:24 PM by network dude

Originally posted by Equinox99

So the "key of Solomon", care to elaborate on that? How masons worship 3 stars, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. The checkered floor, and how every president is sworn in on one? How ever bloody president is a Freemason/Satanist.

I got nothing against lowly Freemasons, I only have a problem with the majority.

care to elaborate how we worship 3 stars? And I can't wait for your interpretation of how you will prove that every president is/was a Freemason and a satanist.

Sincerely,

a lowly Freemason. (but part of the majority)

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 02:25 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Equinox99
So the "key of Solomon", care to elaborate on that?

Likely written in the 1400s; has nothing to do with King Solomon.

How masons worship 3 stars, Isis, Osiris, and Horus.

Isis, Osiris and Horus were ancient Egyptian gods, not stars. No Masons worship them (unless that particular Mason happens to follow an ancient Egyptian religion, which is perfectly within his rights to do so...)

The checkered floor, and how every president is sworn in on one?

First I've heard of that. And easy enough to prove with photos that Obama was sworn in on a blue carpet...

How ever bloody president is a Freemason/Satanist.

14 out of 44 presidents have been Freemasons. As far as I know, 0 out of 44 presidents have been Satanists.

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 04:10 PM by refuse2lose2nwo

Loco Hombre in your first post you wrote that:
The masons actually even understand sacred writings better than their followers. they realize that humans were made in the image of god, therefore we are gods.

This interpretation of humans being made in the image of God therefore making us Gods, could not be more far off. If these Masons claim to believe in God like they say, they would acknowledge the fact that God created man to serve him, not to be on the same level as him.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by LocoHombre]

[edit on 29-10-2009 by refuse2lose2nwo]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 02:42 PM by RuneSpider

reply to post by Rockpuck

To rephrase my earlier statement, the Regius Poem is dated itself to around 1390. It contains mentions of Freemasonry that would date back to 900 or so BC.
The Templars were disbanded in 1314, and if you take for granted that Masonry then in some form preceded the document then you don't have such a large gap.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 02:55 PM by seagull

reply to post by KSigMason

Possibly. there are many names that can be placed in the same context as Lucifer, as a bringer of knowledge, or light...

Native American legends Coyote is the bringer of fire from the heavens to man. Prometheus, as you mentioned. There are surely many, many others.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 10:18 PM by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You always had an interesting take on history...

1. The only Lodges to be attacked in America were attacked by the British Army, during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812. No lodge was sacked by Americans however.

Not quite right there, Rockpuck. Niagara Lodge #2 in Niagara on the Lake, Ontario (Upper Canada back in the day) like almost all the buildings in NOTL was burned as the U.S. forces retreated back across the Niagara River on December 10th, 1813.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 07:55 PM by LocoHombre

Originally posted by refuse2lose2nwo

This interpretation of humans being made in the image of God therefore making us Gods, could not be more far off. If these Masons claim to believe in God like they say, they would acknowledge the fact that God created man to serve him, not to be on the same level as him.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by LocoHombre]

[edit on 29-10-2009 by refuse2lose2nwo]

so what you are saying is that god is a selfish pig, no better than any of us humans. if that were true, he'd be on our level, than we are therefore his equals.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by LocoHombre]

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