The Islamic 'Lie' & Other Fun Facts, page 7
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reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 12:55 AM by Chronogoblin
Originally posted by jeddun

"The doctrine of Satan is that all religions are equally valid, that ALL paths lead to God, that God is impersonal, unknowable, and it is therefore irrelevant to Him what we call Him or how we worship Him. If Allah and God are one and the same, then wouldn't the worship of the Hindu chief Gods, Vishnu and Shiva, also be the worship of Allah and God, only by a different name? Pretty soon everybody is God...which is the same as saying nobody is." Hal Lindsey



I have to say, that despite the rather inflammatory nature of your topic, that this here is probably the part I found to be the most off, from a philisophical point-of-view. That right there just smacks of opinion-driven BS. Basically, this person says that none of the other gods can be the 'true' god, just in a different form, ummm, because he said so? Because that would somehow, known only to this person, cheapen 'god'? Honestly the whole ideal seems to make more sense to me than anything I had previously heard. IF there were only one 'god' in the universe, wouldn't all other 'gods' be subservient? Or, perhaps even as the quote above seemed to imply, that those other 'gods' are just the true 'god' in a different form. It almost seems like that person is saying that a true 'god' would be too stupid to think of presenting itself to different people in different forms, so that they can relate to it as befits their culture. That's almost insulting, and I'm not even religious. One thing that kinda bothers me about the whole "My god can beat up your god" thing, is that people seem to want to put limits on something that is inherantly limitless. Projecting human emotions and flaws onto something that would be, IMO, inherently flawless. The whole ideal seems silly to me, which is why I tend to take religious ideology with a pound of salt. I just don't think that people are giving 'god' enough credit.

Chrono


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 12:57 PM by need2know4me
Originally posted by jeddun
reply to post by worldwatcher


See, me being an open minded person has ZERO weight on Gods message...my opinion doesn't change Gods intent...Gods message...me being tolerant and accepting is fine...but it changes nothing. The facts are in scripture...not my opinion.


what of this scripture you quote, do really think that is gods words? i think you may have missed the KING GEORGE.[Its on the cover] and fyi your god is pagen too.but lets say your right. do you think that god cares that you go to church on sunday. sing little songs to him.do you think he cares that you do not love his people, and that you hate your bother?? i think its the later

[edit on 28-10-2009 by need2know4me]


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 09:45 PM by godless
reply to post by jeddun


I have read it and I don't believe a word of it. Do you want to know what the most telling difference is between Judaism, Christianity and Islam? It's that, with Islam, you have a prophet, Mohammed, who's existence can be absolutely historically validated. Can the same be said of Jesus? Nope. Moses? Nope. Beyond that it isn't Satan that claims that all religions are equally valid, it's Common Sense. Religions are cultural expressions of the shared values of a particular people. This is a product of the very real seperation between peoples that was the ongoing reality of the human race until very recently. Mongols couldn't pick up a phone and talk to the Greeks. Their societies existed in a state of isolation and their Religions developed to suit the needs of the individual society and the prevailing culture of the people. So, yes, if you're born in Japan then Shinto is a viable expression of religion that speaks to you in the voice you and your ancestors share. If you originate in India then Hinduism or Bhuddism are the religions most likely to say the things you can readily understand.

This isn't an accident. It's the easily understandible ramification of cultural preferences and biases built into a culture's religious expression. This is why the Eastern religions like Hinduism, Shintoism, Bhuddism and Taoism seem so other-worldly to our Western ears. Embedded within these philosophies are modes of thought and behavior that are so natural to the indigenous adherents of these belief systems that they seem like common knowledge. To us they come off as bizzarre concepts and challenging assertions of a reality that is alltogether strange from our own concepts of reality. In truth the hindu belief in reincarnation is no more fantastic a supposition as is the assertion of the Ressurection. Ressurection is a common theme in many of our Levant inspired religions. Reincarnation is common to Eastern thought. You naturally tend to believe what you are familiar with and what you were raised with. There is no Satan in that, only human nature.

The fly in the belief ointment started with the Romans. They were the first really sophisticated Western socoety and historical writings show that their population boasted representatives on nearly all of the major religions in the world at that time. Now the Romans were a liberal lot by the standards abroad in America today. They really didn't care what religion you subscribed to as long as that religion was willing to grant the Ceasar the divinity they thought was necessary to legitimize his authority to rule over everybody. In fact the Romans were rather notorious consumers of relgious belief back in the day. It was quite fashionable for the upper classes to flirt with adherence to first this religion and then that. one. It was in Rome that the practice of adopting a religion that did not originate within your own culture first took hold.

This is very significant because it was they who established the notion that it was alright for an individual to reject the gods of his forebearers and to embrace a god whose origin was from a culture that existed thousands of miles away. It was this frivilous towards religions that allowed rhe big levant 3; Judaism, Christianity and Islam, to spread throughout the Western world and eventually supplant all of the indiginous religions of Eastern Europe.


reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 12:39 AM by saima
I AM MUSLIM
I completely disagree with your article......you donot have knowledge or should i say correct knowledge and
you donot have any respect for peoples and their religion....

THIS IS THE SIMPLE DEFINITION of ALLAH IS..
ALLAH IS THE ONE AND THE SOVEREIGN.HE HAS ALL THE POWER AND HE IS THE CREATOR ...
'''Muslim theology tells us Allah is NOT to be understood as aperson.'''
THAT TRUE
''Allah has NO emotional feeling toward Man.'''
THAT NOT TRUE..PLZ donot write things you donot know about...


We donot believe god is the word which can be use as ALLAH cuz in christanity they have 3
and in hinduism there are many gods and so on n on....
in ISLAM there is only one and the sovereign ..

WORD ALLAH DIDNOT GET ITS ORIGIN FROM SOME IDOL..... THATS NOT TRUE or TELL WHOEVER TOLD YOU THESE THINGS..

PROPHET MUHAMMAD DIDNOT DREAMT ISLAM .HE WAs THE MESSENGER OF GOD EXACTLY LIKE JESUS,ABRAHIM n MOSES...
ALLAH chose them to bring peace,civilization and his message to human in shape of bible, torah and Quran..

BIBLE,PROPHET JESUS
TORAH.PROPHET MOSES
QURAN,PROPHET MUHAMMAD

IN ISLAM,the only difference is that MUHAMMAD was the last prophet on earth..

To me you are simply narrow minded,cynical and a person who is unable to respect others..you are one of the people who create misconceptions about islam




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reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 12:53 AM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by De La Valletta


You realize that "The Satanic Versus" is a work of fiction, don't you? It's Salman Rushdie's Islamic version of "The Last Temptation of Christ" - also a work of fiction if you didn't know (Nikos Kazantzakis).

I'm wondering if anyone, anyone in this thread can name those supposed 300 gods.

'Cause I can name the jewish god's co-deities


reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 12:57 AM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by godless


Buddhism is only other-worldly to western eyes, because the version that's been imported to the west is intentionally clouded up in dreamy slackjawed new-age horsehockey. Buddhism, as practiced in Asia is a far more practical, "regular" religion than the crap you find in the "spirituality" section of Barnes & Nobile.

It's also probably got more blood soaked into it than the three Abrahamic faiths - Perhaps only because it's got a few hundred years on christianity.


reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 01:01 AM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by jeddun


One of your quotes makes the assumption that Satan is real and has a doctrine regarding all religions being valid. This is absurd not only because Satan has never been shown to exist but because even in the Bible where Satan is depicted we do not get a clear picture of Old Scratch, merely some scattered reports about an adversary. Satan isn't always God's greatest enemy, for instance in Job Satan shows up and bets God he can get Job to crack and God allows Satan to essentially kill Jobs kids and ruin Job's life.

Which brings me to another point, the God of the old Testament is evil and is clearly no different from other pagan Gods. For one he demands bizarre rituals, blood sacrifices, circumcision, etc and for the other he goes around slaughtering people, damning them, swallowing them up into the Earth, drowning them, commanding the Israelites to kill them (hardly a God of Grace as you have claimed and as the writers of the Bible later tried to convince their sheep). So we see that its irrelevant whether Allah and Yaweh are even related because both deities seem to support bloodshed and evil at various times.. want to know why they both seem to support those things, because they were made up....

Yes that's right, these deities were made up and then utilized as tools to get people motivated behind war, to get people to obey their leaders and to scare them into submission with fire and brimstone stories of Hell while putting the minds of believers at ease with various descriptions of Heaven or Paradise. So what is Mohamed borrowed from earlier religions, guess who else was notorious for doing that, you guess it the Jews and the Christians. The Christians definitely since Jesus was a Jew and never aimed to start his own religion (in fact Jesus was very anti-religion) so the Christians stole the Old Testament and tacked on Jesus and the new testament to the end of it. And that old testament has a creation and flood account borrowed from the Sumerians.

Am I trying to defend the Muslim faith as legitimate, NO, I am trying to tell you that all ancient faiths are illegitimate flawed works of man and pretending one is so much far superior to the other is an arrogant and futile thing. Religion was fine when it was uniting communities but as soon as the governments and men in power saw how it could be used for their own greed and power they did so to devastating effect. In short I don't think any of these belief systems are relevant or should be taken literally in the modern world, we should have evolved as a society to be beyond this and yet our primitive brains keep going back to sleep...


reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 01:05 AM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by saima


I've studied extensively, and have rejected them all. Well, aside from a bit of cultural practice - I figure since nobody else is going to honor my ancestors, I might as well give 'em their due, after all.



reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 01:08 AM by saima
reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I am MUSLIM...YES thats true before islam came in MAKKAH(in saudi arabia)there were 300 gods they use to worship..but we dont know names of all of them...and names i know cant recall them right now..
but why are you so shocked...... in india I think there more than that nowadays.....

[edit on 29-10-2009 by saima]


reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 02:56 PM by De La Valletta
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
No it is you who do not realize you are speaking from a position of ignorance. The satanic verses are real. Rushdie used it in his book yes , but he got it from a real source. Read koran surah 53:19-20 they clearly state the names of allat , al-uzza and manat. The satanic verse was;

"These are the high-flying cranes and their intercession is to be hoped for".

Three pagan goddess' intercession was to be hoped for , so much for monotheism. Later, Muhammad got a revelation from allah that the verse should be removed.

The Hadith of Al-Tabari , transmitted by Ibn Sa'd (2 muslim scholars) is the source of this account. This also brings up the topic of abrogation in the koran , the substituting of surah for another.

sura 2:106
None of Our ayat(revelations) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We replace something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

surah 13:39:

"Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book."


And sura 16:101
"When We substitute one ayah (revelation) for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals , they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not."

Example of an abrogated verse; There are many more but that could go on and on.

koran 2:109
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Abrogated verse;
Koran 8:39-40
"And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone (in the whole world). But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah) then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do."

Hmm...what do they say about someone who keeps changing their story and recanting past statements? Making it up/lying.


reply posted on 30-10-2009 @ 07:45 PM by The time lord
Learn to be free, unveil your hearts and your own women, but obviously dress modestly in times of prayer.



Corinthians 3

12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 16 But when one [4] turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord [5] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, [6] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Text



There is no other Gospel but Jesus.


Galatians 1
No Other Gospel

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Text


I am Sorry to say but some observe the law so much that they live and die by the sword, you know where they do today. Christ lifted the curse for us, people no longer have to wonder around the desert under strict laws.

10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Text


Set your selves free from the prison of sin.


Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Text


With faith through Christ we are all equal to him, we all came from the same seed explained below.



Galatians 3
Sons of God

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Text



reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:10 AM by saima
reply to post by TheWalkingFox


HEYYY.... that one was not for you,...but anyways .....just to be clear,when i said study i didnt meant just to know about these religions I meant to actually study them.....read bible ,quran and etc....
if you havent and you are atheist, i strongly recommend it...
PEACE

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