Has Obama being elected done more to divide the country?

Originally posted by reasonable
The US is divided beyond repair. I firmly believe the country should divide into two separate countries a right leaning and a left leaning. Face it.. it is either that or the constant never ending battle between the 50% on the left & 50% on the right. Who wants to endure this forever? Nothing will change this, the only logical solution is a split into two countries. Yes the logistics are huge but the infighting needs to stop and this is a surefire way to do it. Although a country comprised of low I.Q. evangelical young earth creationist rednecks would need constant aid from the world.. at least the other new country will have peace and prosperity.

Great idea!!! The 50% on the right can finally have a country where people take personal responsibility, work to improve themselves and provide for their families, can have family values, can have Christian values and demand accountability from each other - the other 50% can all sit around, smoke pot and share that one bag of Doritos that they'll manage to beg from someone with a job.

So my main question is... How are the liberal 50% going to survive when they can no longer pillage from the 50% that do any actual work!?

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I figured this was the best place to post this, and I may have misworded the title. If anyone thinks of a better title, feel free to suggest.

But has Obama being elected done more to divide the country than to bring it together? I don't necessarily mean his policies, or "the fact that he's a socialist" like some would claim. Maybe I'm not sure what I mean, maybe it is those things as well.

But even leading up to the election, especially in the final months/weeks I personally noted more of a divide among people and voters across both sides.

Now since his election, we have had "birther", healthcare, and numerous other "controversies" than in my opinion have done more to drive a wedge into the people and divide them, keep them fighting amongst themselves while a bigger picture happens elsewhere.

Its true that we have always been "divided" but it just seems as though lately, its gotten worse. Peoples behaviors have gone to the extreme.

What are your thoughts?

I really would like to keep the conversation about the division of America, and not about Obama per se.

[edit on 10/26/2009 by ThaLoccster]

interesting theory.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thanks for that article it was a good read.

Were a few points I thought stood out.

"The environment is much more extreme today because of the level of public involvement, the level of incivility among both the political elite and the public," said Chris Dolan, a political scientist at Lebanon Valley College in Annville, Pa.

"It is nasty and getting nastier," agreed Clyde Frazier, a political scientist at Meredith College in Raleigh, N.C.

While he believes that American history has seen dirtier political periods, Frazier sees today's climate partly the result of the "media culture."

"Vitriol seems to sell. If you are telling people the end of the world is at hand, they watch," he said.

While Americans once sought news from media outlets that aimed for objectivity, many are now turning to sources that reinforce their political viewpoints, including the conservative Fox News and the liberal MSNBC on cable television.

"Political animosity has become professionalized," said Frazier, mentioning talk radio's ultraconservative Rush Limbaugh, who openly calls for the failure of the Obama presidency.

[edit on 10/26/2009 by ThaLoccster]

[edit on 10/26/2009 by ThaLoccster]

Originally posted by kozmo

Great idea!!!

The 50% on the right can finally have a country where people take personal responsibility, work to improve themselves and provide for their families, can have family values, can have Christian values and demand accountability from each other - the other 50% can all sit around, smoke pot and share that one bag of Doritos that they'll manage to beg from someone with a job.

So my main question is... How are the liberal 50% going to survive when they can no longer pillage from the 50% that do any actual work!?

I find your comment close minded, offensive and outright idiotic.

Your painting of any liberal as a drug using, family abusing, welfare receiving devil worshipper just goes to show what good 'christian values' you have.

The people you just lumped together in some retarded melting pot of idiocy are the people that generally possess the larger portion of what you claim the people on the "right" possess.

I thought one of your "christian values" was "judge not lest ye be judged", not to mention "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Way to point out the pompous, righteous attitude that the "right" carries around.

Comments like yours, are what helps to further divide America. If you want an America where everyone thinks the same as you (or else probably) then move to Iran. Its amazing how people with bigoted opinions such as yours despise a country like Iran, yet would fit in quite nicely. You can't truely want an America, or the freedoms it offers if you honestly believe the comment you just blurted out and I can't with a straight face call you an American, much less a patriot. A true American would work towards uniting his country, not making statements and fostering an attitude like yours.

Why don't you spend your free time with those less fortunate countrymen and women of yours, help them better theirselves so they won't need a system like welfare or your precious tax dollars. What would Jesus do, right?

I'm liberal minded and work a minimum of 70hrs a week. I'm not sure the red staters are doing all that much real work.. Ok I take it back they have the highest web stats usage of porn surfing, then there is the highest levels of divorce and abortion so they are obviously very very busy doing something.

People are still very divided along party lines - the party identification is sickening. That is unchanged, IMO, as there towards the end, a lot of republicans did not like Bush, just like a lot of democrats now don't like Obama.

So I'd say unchanged as far as party identification, but also more united in anger.

Has Obama getting in Office divided the people even more?
To find the answer to that, just read every single post in this thread.
Of course he has.
Imagine everyone in this thread sitting in one room together, saying the same things they posted to each others faces. Yea. wouldnt end so pretty.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster

Your painting of any liberal as a drug using, family abusing, welfare receiving devil worshipper just goes to show what good 'christian values' you have.

Please explain to the rest of us exactly how this is any different than the demonizing done by the elitist (so-called) "progressives" of anything and anyone conservative in this country. For a perfect example, see the post by (un)reasonable above ^^^^^.

I predicted on this site 5 years ago that if the elitist (so-called) "progressives" didn't let up on their vitriolic attacks on conservatives, politics in the U.S. would degenerate into nothing more than a tit-for-tat game and that nothing else would get done while the battle raged.

Welcome to my predicted reality ...

[edit on 10/27/2009 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by reasonable
The US is divided beyond repair. I firmly believe the country should divide into two separate countries a right leaning and a left leaning.

I actually disagree that separation is the answer. Live and let live is the answer. Learning to agree to disagree is the answer. Keeping our beliefs for ourselves and not imposing them on other people is the answer.

As kosmo illustrated:

One person's "murdering unborn children" is another's freedom of choice.
One person's "raping and pillaging the traditional nuclear family" is another's freedom to have the kind of family one chooses.
One person's "feminization of men and the masculinization of women" is another's gender equality.
One person's "denigrating the foundation of marriage" is another's freedom to marry one's choice.
One person's "handouts to people who are uninterested in providing for themselves" is another person's charity and love for our fellow man.

And so on.

It seems some people want freedom, as long as they get to choose the particular freedoms for everyone...

My point is, I accept that kosmo feels this way about the freedoms and equality that I support. As long as he/she doesn't impose his own personal restrictions on my freedoms, I don't have a problem with him feeling the way he does. But that's what he wants to do. He wants to take away my freedoms. He would legally remove every freedom he mentioned above if he had the power, and that's what I find dangerous about the more traditional side of the divide.

If kosmo could learn to LIVE AND LET LIVE, he would find that other people's freedoms don't affect his life. A gay couple down the street getting married won't in any way affect his marriage, yet he would disallow the gay couple the same rights he has. This is not personal responsibility. It's dictatorship, control, rule by one set of people to another.

Why people can't just back off of having control over everything and everyone, I don't understand. We have lived in this society together for many years. What's going on now that we feel we must rule the way other people live? That's the problem with this divide...

Originally posted by centurion1211
Please explain to the rest of us exactly how this is any different than the demonizing done by the elitist (so-called) "progressives" of anything and anyone conservative in this country.

It isn't any different. Thing is, they both have the right to FEEL and THINK and SPEAK that way. What they don't have a right to do is legally make other people behave in a way that conforms to their beliefs. They don't have a right to impose their beliefs on other people's lives. If we could get to the point where we could talk like that and NOT take offense, then we could get along just fine.

If someone says that as a woman I shouldn't be able to "murder innocent babies", then I should let it run off my back and not get all huffy because "someone called me a murderer" and look for ways to "get them back" with my next words. If someone says that "Traditionalists have a low IQ", then you should let it run off your back and not get all huffy because "someone said you were stupid". It's just words. Once we realize that, and don't take these things personally, we can begin to TALK with each other. And that's what we need to do. STOP trying to change each other! Leave each other ALONE. Live and let live.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


Blah, blah, blah... Nice lecture...

How do you know what I do and don't with my free time? I feel no need to defend myself against your baseless implications - so I won't!

But you, sir, need to face reality. I am a Christian and espouse Christian values. But I am not here to debate what Jesus taught us versus the reality of the world we live in. I will simply expound upon those realities, which you see unfit to acknowledge.

The sad reality is that the vast majority of liberals receive hand-outs and EXPECT hand-outs. They vote for politicans who pander to them and promise them said hand-outs. The only thing welfare has accomplished is to create a complete and total sub-culture who has learned how to game the system to receive something for nothing. Whereas I believe there are genuinely needy people who require some help and should receive it, the vast majority are nothing more than life-long leaches!

Here is the problem with "Progressivism" aka Liberalism - there is no desire to ELEVATE the needy to provide for themselves and become more productive members of society. In fact, the very notion that they are "Needy" at all indicates a victim mentality that the liberals seek to remedy by PUNISHING those of us who work every day to improve our lot in life. So, you see, the whole notion of "Progressivism" is to SUPRESS the success of persons in order to level the playing field for those less motivated to be personally successful.

On a final note - looking for a government solution to the problem is worse than misguided - it has proven disasterous, not only to those it taxes into oblivion, but to those that it makes slaves to the cyclic system of hand-outs from the creation of a nanny-state.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
One person's "murdering unborn children" is another's freedom of choice.
One person's "raping and pillaging the traditional nuclear family" is another's freedom to have the kind of family one chooses.
One person's "feminization of men and the masculinization of women" is another's gender equality.
One person's "denigrating the foundation of marriage" is another's freedom to marry one's choice.
One person's "handouts to people who are uninterested in providing for themselves" is another person's charity and love for our fellow man.

And so on.

It seems some people want freedom, as long as they get to choose the particular freedoms for everyone...

My point is, I accept that kosmo feels this way about the freedoms and equality that I support. As long as he/she doesn't impose his own personal restrictions on my freedoms, I don't have a problem with him feeling the way he does. But that's what he wants to do. He wants to take away my freedoms. He would legally remove every freedom he mentioned above if he had the power, and that's what I find dangerous about the more traditional side of the divide.

If kosmo could learn to LIVE AND LET LIVE, he would find that other people's freedoms don't affect his life. A gay couple down the street getting married won't in any way affect his marriage, yet he would disallow the gay couple the same rights he has. This is not personal responsibility. It's dictatorship, control, rule by one set of people to another.

Why people can't just back off of having control over everything and everyone, I don't understand. We have lived in this society together for many years. What's going on now that we feel we must rule the way other people live? That's the problem with this divide...

You are right to an extent, but only an extent. Look up Norms, Values and Mores and then tell me what the progressives are doing isn't burning a whole in the very fabric of society. There is a happy middle ground here, but the "Progressives" are not happy with compromise - they either want the institutions burnt directly to the ground or they want them burnt directly to the ground.

What you see as "Freedom of Choice" is MURDER. Perhaps I should be afforded the same freedom of choice to end anyone's life at any time of my own choosing!?

What you see as one's ability to have any type of family of their own choosing has ALWAYS been available in America - yet the "Progressives" feel a burning need to completely trash the traditional family and FORCE upon all of us the notion that the "family" is what THEY want to define it as - good luck with that!

"Gender Equality" is simply a means to an end of the aforementioned. It is a tactic and a ploy and has achieved only one thing - the destruction of the nuclear family!

Freedom to "Marry" whomever is another freedom in America - as long as the "Marriage" is between a man and a woman. I am fine with gays receiving the same legal benefits via "Civil Unions" but it ain't a marriage as it cannot be consumated nor can it produce offspring.

And handouts... that should be left to each individual. It should not be legislated nor should it require robinhood style politics like the left has been employing for decades. That is not "Charity"!

So you see, BH... the problem here is that the "Progressives" feel the need to trash every single Norm, Value and More that built this country. It is unreasonable to expect the majority of people to give up everything they believe and hold dear to them to appease a few radicals. The reality is that it is the PROGRESSIVES who want to dictate and control the total norms, values and mores of the entire country so that they can feel comfortable living outside of what the majority find societally acceptable.

Originally posted by kozmo
You are right to an extent, but only an extent. Look up Norms, Values and Mores and then tell me what the progressives are doing isn't burning a whole in the very fabric of society. There is a happy middle ground here, but the "Progressives" are not happy with compromise - they either want the institutions burnt directly to the ground or they want them burnt directly to the ground.

I am not suggesting a compromise or that we should meet along the lines of "norms" or meet at a happy middle ground. People are different, with different values and beliefs. They should be allowed to have those beliefs and live their lives without someone imposing on their way of life and their beliefs.

What you see as "Freedom of Choice" is MURDER. Perhaps I should be afforded the same freedom of choice to end anyone's life at any time of my own choosing!?

If that's what you believe and want, then I suggest you try to get that pesky old law against murder taken off the books. You see freedom of choice as murder. That's fine. Don't have an abortion. But don't impose YOUR beliefs on everyone else. Many DO NOT see it the same as you. That's the part you're missing. You're incapable of accepting that those who disagree with you are right in their beliefs just as you are in yours.

What you see as one's ability to have any type of family of their own choosing has ALWAYS been available in America - yet the "Progressives" feel a burning need to completely trash the traditional family and FORCE upon all of us the notion that the "family" is what THEY want to define it as - good luck with that!

No one is forcing you to do anything... except maybe leave them alone. What you're saying doesn't make sense. HOW are progressives completely trashing the traditional family? Specifically. What are they forcing you to do? How does the gay marriage down the block with 2 adopted children ruin or even affect your marriage? BOTH can exist.

"Gender Equality" is simply a means to an end of the aforementioned. It is a tactic and a ploy and has achieved only one thing - the destruction of the nuclear family!

This is your belief and that's fine. But for us to "get along", you must also realize that I do not believe what you say or agree with you. I live in an equal marriage and we have a wonderful family. Many people do. Reality does not support your belief. The nuclear family is alive and well!

I am fine with gays receiving the same legal benefits via "Civil Unions" but it ain't a marriage as it cannot be consumated nor can it produce offspring.

My marriage (a man and a woman) cannot produce offspring.
Consummation

Consummation or consummation of a marriage, in many traditions and statutes of civil or religious law, is the first (or first officially credited) act of sexual intercourse between two people, following their marriage to each other.

Sexual Intercourse

Sexual intercourse, also known as copulation or coitus, commonly refers to the act in which the male reproductive organ enters the female reproductive tract.[1][2] The two entities may be of opposite sexes or not, or they may be hermaphroditic, as is the case with snails.

Now, I realize that your definitions of these words may be slightly different. But your rules don't apply to me or anyone else. That's the problem. You want YOUR rules, values, morals, definitions, beliefs and context to apply to all other people. And they don't.

It is unreasonable to expect the majority of people to give up everything they believe and hold dear to them to appease a few radicals.

I'm not asking you to give up ANYTHING except your need to totally control and dominate other people's lives.