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Originally posted by argentus
I had occasion on another thread to compile some basic evidence toward the idea that squalene is and has caused adverse reaction in humans. I think the information is relative to this thread, so I've linked My Post.
Originally posted by Asherah
Hmm. Although it might be "nobel" for Obama to be willing to "stand in line" for his vaccine, he is still the potus. He must do all he can to remain healthy in order to do his job. He IS first in line as is his family for this vaccine, yet they are all refusing to take it. If it were safe, and it's good enough for the American people why hasn't he or his wife taken it?
The numbers are bunk and you know it. It is common knowledge that only a small portion of sick persons are tested.
Do you know how the standard flu deaths are calculated?
They calculate how many people died before the flu season then how many die during the flu season. If more die during flu season they attribute it to flu. It is guessing game as privacy laws here do not allow for accurate counts. Obama’s national emergency might provide some valid figures, but until then the numbers are from confirmed cases and do not even begin to cover all related deaths plain and simple!
Thanks for the links. I prefer reading actual scientific studies than limited half-sentences from doctors and lobbyists though – it’s hard to put a lot of weight in these clips.
Your first clip features:
1. Barbara Loe Fisher: no medical training whatsoever. Has troubled kids and I feel terrible for her and their challenges, but also has been known to spread incorrect information linking the DPT vaccine and SIDS, despite ten years of clinical studies showing no such link.
2. Dr Rene Toko (misspelled): chiropractor who works with autistic kids. The vaccine – autism link has been strongly disproven in multiple studies, and she’s not medically schooled in either area anyway.
3. Dr Warren Levin: I love that he’s pushed the cosmetics industry and governments on toxicity, that’s great. However, a common concern that he alludes to is toxic chemicals used in vaccines, but the toxins that are complained about most often aren’t used any more – not since 2001 for example, for thimerosal. It was used since the 1930s, but only in multiple-dose devices, never for single-use like we see at flu clinics. But that kinda gets ignored in this I find.
4. Stephen Marini, PhD: Chiropractor, not medical doctor. His clip is edited so I don’t know what he actually said in the original, but this clip makes it seem like he thinks vaccines can lead to allergies (DPT has this as a rare side-effect, 0.0007% of the time, and even moderate side effects only appear 0.1-1.0% of the time), asthma, and autism. I have not yet read one single peer-reviewed study which supports a claim of asthma or autism. He also appears to say that DPT and MMR are diseases we “now know how to handle”. While this may be true, we vaccinate (and have for generations) because of how many kids they KILLED.
a. Diphtheria: 13000+ kids killed in US per year before the vaccine, and only 3 cases total (no deaths) between 2000 and 2007.
b. Pertussis: still kills up to a dozen kids per year in the US even despite vaccinations, and killed many more before.
c. Tetanus: still kills about five every year in the US, almost always due to lack of vaccination.
d. Measles: killed 345,000 worldwide in 2005, but only 101 cases total in Canada in 2007.
e. Rubella: In 1964-65, 11,000 miscarriages or therapeutic abortions and 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome. Of these, 2,100 died as neonates, 12,000 were deaf, 3,580 were blind and 1,800 were mentally retarded. (all USA). It was announced “eliminated in the USA” by the CDC in 2004.
(All of these numbers are on Wikipedia and are referenced)
5. Mary Toko (misspelled): no medical training, sells a DVD about her beliefs, and disseminates information clearly against the scientific consensus (like vaccines cause autism).
OK, that’s an hour of research, and I’ve only covered one minute of the first video. I’m exhausted from my class today, so I’m going to sign off on this debate. Thanks for the links – I do appreciate them. I do also hope that you research the publicly funded independent science too.
Lastly: bringing up Nazis is really not a good way to win an argument. It’s like sandblasting a soda cracker! I agree Nazis were bad, but I strongly disagree that there is a relevant comparison between doctors who believe vaccines are good and the Nazis.
Probably safest to agree to disagree.
Jeez, it's ok to question something... but this shot, is only to save lives, probably not YOUR life, but in getting it, you'll save someone else's life... Because we know the chances of dying from H1N1 are very small, smaller than the normal flu, but that's not the important part...