there grammers pothetic

Having been around in this world for over 60 years, I've been witnessing this 'erosion' of the correct use of language for a long time. Back in my days of elementary education, today's standards would most likely have seen a lot of students repeating years before allowed to advance but, as an earlier poster stated, correct use of spelling, grammar and punctuation is not an indication of the individual's intelligence.

Not all that long ago these skills were drummed into us militantly but now those standards are considerably relaxed in favour of encouraging creativity.

I still grind my teeth occasionally at some of the grammar 'crimes' I see in everyday life but I've not yet had a seizure over it (except for rolling on the floor over some examples).

The message is, and always was, more important than the envelope it's delivered in

reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT

you are a funny cat! why would pandas do all of that?
it reminds me once of a time in linguistics class
when newspaper article titles were in discussion
the double meaning thing gave me a concussion.

reply to post by notreallyalive


damn that's a good one. i didn't even think about martini being a variation on the word apple. and i drink like a fish , so it surprises me that i didn't think of it. star and flag for your wife, my friend!

reply to post by dragonsmusic


star and flag for you , man. very cool thread.

May I suggest the book "Mother tongue" by Bill bryson?

By the way, the English language whether written or spoken is one of the toughest languages to understand or use properly at times. English is very confusing and frustrating. The bottom line is everyone makes mistakes no matter how intelligent oreducated you are. To err est human

reply to post by notreallyalive


Who cares, are you so st00pid that you can't figure out the meaning of a discussion unless it's in the Queen's tongue? Are you saying that Dyslexic people are stupid or that it the correct use of grammar is somehow linked to intelligence?

Are you saying that Dyslexic people are stupid

Most "dyslexic" people have simply never been taught how to spell.

or that it the correct use of grammar is somehow linked to intelligence?

Yes. If you can put a coherent sentence together, the reader is at least going to give you the benefit of the doubt until they've read your opinions. If you can't formulate your opinions coherently, why should I even bother reading them?

Nobody here has said everyone should write using the Queen's English, so you can forget that straw man argument. The OP was simply pointing out that many people make NO EFFORT whatsoever to write coherent English. And yet such people complain if anyone dares to suggest it reflects badly on their intelligence.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want people to think you're intelligent, make an effort to show it.

I haven't given up on the idea that speaking/typing correctly can have a significant effect or affect (hmm? lol) on how people share their beliefs. Do I expect it to change significantly? Not really.

George Orwell said as much in "1984". Thought can only be as sophisticated as the language available to it. That's why in his novel, the Government simplifies the English language to the extent that it becomes virtually impossible to think a subversive thought - certainly impossible to communicate it to anyone else.

This is why language matters.

Here in the UK, the generation that hasn't been taught proper English also shows, in my experience, a marked inability to think and argue logically.

I have horrible grammar I admit, it is mostly due to my own doing as I was never at school and when I was I just mucked around.

Would love to brush my english up but there are so many books out there I would not know where to start.

If anyone has any suggestions feel free to add them

Originally posted by 30_seconds
Not much to say here except that I agree. The grammar mistakes I see on ATS shouldn't escape a 2nd grade classroom, but I see them everywhere.

I always felt embarrassed or ashamed if I used a word incorrectly. It means my audience might associate me with an uneducated or feeble-minded group.


[edit on 26-10-2009 by 30_seconds]

this is what people should be thinking about when communicating with others. but, some of them simply do not care about their associations. that leaves the listener to judge on his own. in some cases, that turns out to be a bad decision.

Originally posted by valiant
I have horrible grammar I admit, it is mostly due to my own doing as I was never at school and when I was I just mucked around.

Would love to brush my english up but there are so many books out there I would not know where to start.

If anyone has any suggestions feel free to add them

i've always been a little jealous of they way (proper british) english is spoken. they are able, in most cases, to convey wit, offense, and cyncism, in as few words as needed

Originally posted by spitefulgod
reply to post by notreallyalive

 

Who cares, are you so st00pid that you can't figure out the meaning of a discussion unless it's in the Queen's tongue? Are you saying that Dyslexic people are stupid or that it the correct use of grammar is somehow linked to intelligence?

No, no, and no - feel free to read the thread

reply to post by valiant


That is easy: ANY book of good literature that really captures your attention should do.
Read as many as you can (as many as you can enjoy), make a habit of it.

Reading is the best way to learn how to write properly.
(Which probably explains why the writing skills of so many are so poor.)

By even thinking about it and wanting to do it you have already shown more culture than many.

(And I hope this doesn't sound condescending. That certainly wasn't my intention.
Not AT ALL.)



P.S. If you are interested in social sciences... have you read The Gutenberg Galaxy, by Marshall McLuhan?

It's very a propos this conversation.
And well written, of course.


P.P.S.

Oh, and this, of course:
Eats, shoots & leaves

It's wonderful.









[edit on 27-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Pilgrum


I just have to paraphrase Marshall McLuhan here:

More often than not, the envelope is the message.

(And I ain't just saying so to look smart... )

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by notreallyalive

 

Lol and this coming from someone who says "Pothetic".

So, you didn't notice anything unusual about "there" and "grammers"...?





[edit on 27-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by bagari


There's nothing to add, really.

Maybe just this, in case anyone is interested: it has been proven for a long time now that people who are read to when they are children (bed stories, etc.) are much more likely to grow up into book-reading individuals.

The opposite also seems to be true.

reply to post by skyblueff0


See the book already mentioned in one of the previous posts, if you haven't already:

Eats, Shoots & Leaves

It wasn't a bestseller for nothing. ;-)


(If your writing is terrible, I'd rather not go back and review my own writings... It's already evening: too late to get depressed. )

Sooooo...who is going to record and find a way to preserve the Rosetta Stone of our
technologically inspired generation???

Whomever or whatever finds our cell phones and laptops years from now is going to need a decoder ring!!!!!

Namaste

ZM

reply to post by Vanitas


I brought that book a few years back, lol. Never read it, i may start tonight, lol.

Originally posted by variola major

By the way, the English language whether written or spoken is one of the toughest languages to understand or use properly at times. English is very confusing and frustrating.

Only to those who are native speakers of English.
It is actually one of the easiest European languages to learn.

(And just to avoid any shadow of misunderstanding: this is not meant as a demeaning remark in any way, shape or form.)