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Topic started on 25-10-2009 @ 11:31 PM by whitewave
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"While the attention of the world is focused on genetically modified (GM) crops, GM microbes have been released for at least six years with
little or no public awareness or debate. Prof. Joe Cummins reports.
A number of GM microbes are being widely deployed since their first release six years ago.
*snip* Neither the people selling nor those using the preparations are necessarily aware that the microbes are genetically modified, however. Even
organic farmers may be using them inadvertently.
*snip* GM microbes have begun to be ubiquitous invaders of the North America ecosystem. This massive invasion took place with little or no public
awareness and input, and with very little monitoring of the impact of the invasion. The environmental risk assessments of the commercial microbes were
rudimentary and frequently erroneous. We may have a bio-weapons equivalent of a time bomb on our hands."
GM Microbes
The pros and cons of GM foods have been argued for years now but the subtle (and possibly more dangerous) impact of GM microbes has escaped public
attention. There is evidence that GM corn pollen has adversely affected monarch butterflies. Microevolutionary changes have been noted in earthworms
that have incorporated the modified microbes. The scientists who are fiddling with the lock on Pandora's box seem to have forgotten basic scientific
principles: namely that of the food chain.
The GM argument
Genetic modification has been applied to many other things besides crops. We have to ask ourselves, "do we really need glow in the dark pets? or
pigs that bear spinach genes? or goats that produce spider silk?"
Seriously?
While Europe banned the import of GM foods and required the strict labeling of foods, North America is running full steam ahead with blinders
firmly in place. We've even placed Roger Beachy, THE pioneer in GM crops, as US farm science chief. Although he claims to have never worked for
Monsanto, he has kept uncomfortably close ties with them.
All hail the GM chief
GM microbes have proven very profitable to those in the industry. There is even a GM microbe that can detect the presence of gold deposits in
soil. [Reith and Grass have developed a genetically modified version of C. metallidurans that produces a visible response when the detox genes are
switched on. "When the microbes come into contact with gold, they flash a light that can be detected using a hand-held photometer."]
Gold Alerting Microbes
Especially frightening implications are to be considered with "genome smuggling"; a process that "hijacks the recipient cell recognition enzyme
and stops it from working." With the giddiness that only a mad scientist could exhibit, the discoverers of this process gleefully announce that they
now have the tools to "make large scale changes to bacterial organisms that were not possible before."
Genome smuggling
Genetic modification of animals to be used for laboratory testing raises ethical questions as well.
"Since breeding is cheaper and easier than genetic engineering, the researchers hope the breakthrough will herald development of monkeys that are
better models of human disease than genetically modified mice."
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature
Do we really expect all these genies to stay in their bottles?
Mod Edit: Fixed text that was skewing the page.
Mod Edit: Added external tags for member.
[edit on 10/26/2009 by AshleyD]
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:31 AM by Revolution-2012
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Why'd your story get snipped?
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:33 AM by whitewave
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[edit on 26-10-2009 by whitewave]
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:36 AM by whitewave
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 02:47 AM by Ridhya
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I dont enough to say an educated comment, so how long till a T-virus then?! At least Im ready to solve some puzzles ^_^
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 10:26 AM by whitewave
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As noted in the above links there have already been microevolutionary changes noted in microbes as well as in higher up the food chain.
In addition, scientists keep coming up with new alterations in microbes and higher life forms.
We are defying the laws of nature....to our detriment.
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 10:38 AM by unityemissions
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I am very, very concerned about GM foods, and GM organisms. This issue, plus the issue of endocrine disruptors scares me to no end. Have you read
loam's thread, MEN: You are being chemically castrated?
I am very upset with this all. If mens sperm counts have been more than halved in the last 50 years, doesn't that seem to point towards extinction in
just a couple of generations? Then onto all this GM products..there really is no way of knowing what it is were getting into. We could be causing
microorganisms to evolve faster than humans can keep up. We could be compromising our immune systems so much, to the point of not being able to fight
off the common cold in a few decades!!!
[edit on 26-10-2009 by unityemissions]
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 11:59 AM by Taikonaut
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reply to post by whitewave
Your thoughts provoke another scenario WW. What if a new class of bioweaponry is being developed using this technology? I'm not talking Anthrax or
any of the other 'killer bugs' but the equivalent of non-lethal weapons.
Its not the microbes as such that are the danger, but that they have been engineered to resist all antibiotic or other drug treatment
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:12 PM by whitewave
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reply to post by Taikonaut
Scary thought indeed. And just like the current "non-lethal" weapons that cause so many deaths, bio-engineered microbes present a hazard down the
line.
It's not just resistance to antibiotics (although that's bad enough), it's changes in metabolism and "self vs foreign" cell recognition. When
this starts moving further up the food chain (and it already is) what's to keep such alterations from escaping their biocontainment? Absolutely
nothing.
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:38 PM by whitewave
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Everyone knows who Pasteur was but how many people have heard of Pettenkofer? He argued (successfully) that germs alone were not sufficient to cause
disease in humans; that it was the "environment" that those germs landed in that was responsible for their destructive abilities.
Just like yeasts require a medium of sugars in which to grow and will not grow in a salt medium, different microbes require different mediums in which
to grow.
Pettenkoerf proved his point by drinking a glass of cholera contaminated water in front of a group of students. Cholera is one of the fastest acting
and deadly diseases on the planet. Because his immune system was functioning properly he survived.
Pettenkofer
Our own immune system is capable of dealing with quite a lot but with the artificial manipulation of plant cells, microbes and unnatural mutant
causing irradiation, we are disarming our immune system against these enhanced killers.
*I don't know why this silly link won't behave but you can copy and paste the url to read the article.*
Mod Edit: Fixed link for member. 
[edit on 10/26/2009 by AshleyD]
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 05:05 PM by whitewave
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Originally posted by unityemissions
We could be causing microorganisms to evolve faster than humans can keep up. We could be compromising our immune systems so much, to the point of not
being able to fight off the common cold in a few decades!!!
Exactly, and this is the point I'm trying to make. Many thousands of generations of microbes can be bred in one generation of human lifespan. The
safeguards in place for human beings have kept us at the top of the food chain along with the limitations of the germ world.
We are significantly outnumbered by microbes on an order of many millions to one. If we start tinkering with the genome, enzymes, cell wall
capabilities and limitations, we're just arming them to fight us more successfully.
Maybe that's the plan?
*Thanks Ashley D for your mod mojo magic*
[edit on 26-10-2009 by whitewave]
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 05:16 PM by unityemissions
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reply to post by whitewave
If people are really concerned with the state of humanity, they need look no further than the megacorporations and madscientists they employ.
Seriously though, I don't know how we're going to get through these issues. The environment is already contaminated. Every bit of it. Everyone has
pesticides, plasticizers, endocrine disruptors, etc..in their fat tissues.
Most people don't care to know until it directly effects them in an obvious way. By the time that's happened to the majority, it's probably already
too late. I stand in awe at humanities utter stupidity.
It seems our sense of superiority has in fact proven us to have the opposite. ~99% of species to ever have lived are now extinct. How foolish is it of
us to think we can do whatever and keep procreating/evolving indefinitely?!
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 05:56 PM by Peter Brake
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reply to post by whitewave
We may have a bio-weapons equivalent of a time bomb on our hands.
Thanks for the post. I think the timebomb is about to go off. Bacteria insert genes naturally in order to produce proteins on which they feed. The
transgene in GMO's are 30 times more available then normal genes for this process and the organisms themselves are more vulnerable to this mutation
process.
Antibiotics increases gene transfer upto 10000 times and are used by biotech scientists for this reason.
Heat shock and heavy metals also increase gene transfer.
Look we are injecting millions of people with a vaccine containing mercury(a heavy metal) The H1N1 virus when fighting the human immune system will
want to mutate we have given it many more chances to do so.
People with the swine flu are still receiving antibiotics (none of which have been banned for promoting mutations.)
I've informed health authorities here but can't make much headway I figure the problem is political, they are defending the biotech industry.
The only address I can find for world health organisation is mediaenquiries
can anyone find a better one to send a letter of concern to?
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 07:55 PM by whitewave
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reply to post by Peter Brake
Ah, it looks like you actually read the links presented. That's exactly what's happening. Microbes are mutating and becoming stronger and able to
overcome our defenses while we are being irradiated, poisoned and having our defenses lowered.
While this is not the place for such a discussion, I agree that the swine flu jab is part of the plot to poison us.
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reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 10:22 PM by Peter Brake
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reply to post by whitewave
I figure the problem goes back to greed and irresponsibility. We do not require GMO's to survive and grow as a species.
We could boil the gm soya before selling to the public. This would degrade the dna so at least an increase in mutation attempts would probably stop.
A lot of medicines are being created from gm now so their is public resistance to the truth being told. Scientists are clever enough to find away pass
the hurdles of these problems, they just need to face up.
An electron spectrometer would tell us what reactions are happening between H1N1, GMO's, antibiotics, heavy metals and heat shock. What we learn
could save the human race, and what we learn also furthers the biotech science. They could make their medicines better. (I still wouldn't take them
though)
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reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 02:18 AM by whitewave
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Originally posted by Peter Brake
reply to post by whitewave
I figure the problem goes back to greed and irresponsibility. We do not require GMO's to survive and grow as a species.
We could boil the gm soya before selling to the public. This would degrade the dna so at least an increase in mutation attempts would probably stop.
A lot of medicines are being created from gm now so their is public resistance to the truth being told. Scientists are clever enough to find away pass
the hurdles of these problems, they just need to face up.
An electron spectrometer would tell us what reactions are happening between H1N1, GMO's, antibiotics, heavy metals and heat shock. What we learn
could save the human race, and what we learn also furthers the biotech science. They could make their medicines better. (I still wouldn't take them
though)
Doesn't it seem like ALL problems go back to greed and irresponsibility? The GMO fans claim that hunger can be eradicated by their methods. I fail
to see how outlawing backyard gardens, poisoning the soil with Monsanto's RoundUp, and genetically modifying microbes to outsmart our human immune
defenses will help eradicate hunger.
I believe there is a eugenics plot to wipe out most of humanity, saving only the "chosen ones". GMO is just one aspect. Human beings must be
incredibly powerful beings if it takes fluoride, heavy metals in our water and food, arming our enemies (harmful microbes) with genetic upgrades,
spraying us like bugs from chemtrails, depleting our food by irradiating it, and so on to kill us off.
Just for good measure, our access to anything that we might use to save ourselves (vitamins, supplements) are being restricted by Codex and we're
being threatened with mandatory jabs of known neurotoxins and banned bioweapons.
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reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 04:35 PM by Peter Brake
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Originally posted by whitewave
Originally posted by Peter Brake
reply to post by whitewave
Doesn't it seem like ALL problems go back to greed and irresponsibility? The GMO fans claim that hunger can be eradicated by their methods. I fail
to see how outlawing backyard gardens, poisoning the soil with Monsanto's RoundUp, and genetically modifying microbes to outsmart our human immune
defenses will help eradicate hunger.
GMO can not by itself eradicate hunger, (unless of course it wipes us all out - no people no hunger). The population will keep growing (and I hope it
does) we live in an abundant universe and we have everything we need. Vertical farming sorts out growing space for ever we eventualy will need to find
more minerials, that is all.
The arguements they offer only have some merit in health products, the rest is about money and marketing. The health benefits for the few are far
outweighed by the harm being done to the many and this is now before we face what will come. Perhaps they figure that when these mutations get really
bad they will be employed to fix the problems. It's greed and irresponsibility, the wakeup call will be remembered for all time - if any survive.
This is why I am asking for this testing. Get them to face the facts and repair what they done. Find another way.
I'm wondering if you can comment on this other thread below. The guy I'm talking to is a maker of vaccines.
Originally posted by Peter Brake
I am wondering if your learned self could debunk this for me please don't pull your shots.
Antibiotics increase gene transfer (mutation) upto 10000 times.
The transgene from GMO's (genetically modified organisms) is upto 30 times more available to a virus looking for a gene to mutate with.
Heavy metals increase gene transfer rates. (their is mercury in the vaccine right?)
Finally heat shock increases gene transfer.
It seems to me the swine flu is not yet bad, scientists and government is concerned of it mutating. You could argue that the vaccine will lessen the
chances of it mutating, but the mercury is stored in the body and increases gene transfer. Giving the vaccine to everyone one is helping the next flu
to mutate into a real killer. (yes or no?)
No, none of this is completely true, although there are cases in bacteria. We are dealing with a virus, an RNA virus which basically means it follows
absolutely no pattern for genetic mutations of anytype. Infact, there is not a single defined genetic code for any RNA virus. They actually function
in groups called quasispecies, which are a group of genetically similar strains, but are still vastly genetically different. The RNA viruses are
mainly only single stranded RNA, which makes them far, far less stable than double stranded DNA. Anything, and I mean anything can mutate the strains.
Every time the bug infects someone, its going to mutate. This is shown through serial passages of the flu into animals over and over and over and over
and over again... you can actually watch the virus become stronger and stronger each time it is passed through another animal.
That is why I care if you guys get the vaccine, because it only takes a handfull of people, to pass the bug around, giving it time in vivo to
accumulate genetic changes, and possibly spawn a super flu, which there would be absolutely no vaccine for.
That's the truth behind the vaccine, no punches pulled.
I replied
Okay I read about this, the virus is mutating at about the maximum that it can. If the virus has a range of genes to choose from and an increased
ability to collect these genes then it has a increased range of mutations with which to successfully survive our immune system.
A greater range of mutated viruses means more survive and we have a greater chance for them to become more lethal.
Upset - no reply
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reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 05:45 PM by whitewave
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reply to post by Peter Brake
Hi Peter. I read your tet-a-tet earlier but I can not comment. Sorry.
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