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Originally posted by Tayesin

I talked about REAL experience, not foolery. Because your experience was not validated by getting to your real higher-self, which mirrored the experience of another person, does not mean the entire process is Evil.

For all your verbage both here and on your site you have NEVER talked about anything real.

Do you want to know what my experience is beoming Christian. How about the ability to cry for all the horrible sin in the world.

How about the ability to weep bitter tears for all the children whom I love so much who I know the world wants to defile.

How about weeping at the thought that any man should even want to touch a hair on one of their heads.

How about being angry when the goverment guilt trips a mother into getting a poisonous vaccine, then when the child dies due to the implications, they take away her kids at the funeral.

How about pity and long suffering.

How about being ridiculed and demeened by my own family.

How about genuine concern for all those who are being deceived, used and taken advantage of by corrupt leaders.

How about the liberty and freedom it takes to be a REAL human who cares for humanity, instead of a self obsessed spirit junkie staring at my own navel, reading endless books and never learning anything, ever striving and never accomplishing anything of any real value.

How about being ressurected from the pit of deep apathy sin and death, to being eternally alive in Christ Jesus.

How about weeping tears of joy every time I hear a testimony of a person coming to know Jesus.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by StopComplaining]

First of all I am a Psychologist...

The DSM IV classification does not say anything against spirituality or religion.

I am looking at the DSM right now and here is what it says:

V62.89: This category can be used when the focus of clinical attention is a religious or spiritual problem. Examples include distressing experiences that involve loss or questioning of faith, problems associated with conversion to a new faith, or questioning of other spiritual values which may not necessarily be related to an organized church or religious institution.

This is not a classification for psychotic disorder. This classification is used to determine and document stressors in a person's life that may be part of their need for therapy and guidance.

We have to focus on cultural sensitivity. We would not tell a Christian to read from the Upanishads nor would we tell a Muslim to read from the Lotus Sutra. You don't combat someone's faith you work within it.


I am not sure what the problem is with this classification. I have hand many over the years that have had spiritual/religious issues that need to be resolved and if it is important to the patient then it needs to be discussed.


Take it easy,

Mundane Egg

...and now for something completely different...

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about V62.89: Religious or Spiritual Problems from the DSM? How did it get into personal testimony?

The only way this makes sense is if Psychiatry is part of a larger "Conspiracy" which has all religous authorities in its grasp, this is in fact the case but the grand architect of the conspiracy is satan.

Yikes, Christians would be funny if they weren't so dangerous to others.

Personally, I find the DSM to be fairly contradictory, sometimes foolishly so, and somewhat dependent upon what is fashionable whenever it's updated, but far less so than the Bible.

The Bible is full of stuff that can't possibly be true simultaneously, like the stuff about being the only god. If the christian god were truly alone, it wouldn't, couldn't be jealous of "other" gods, because they didn't exist, it wouldn't couch its admonitions against them it the way it does. If that god was truly all-forgiving, hell and eternal damnation couldn't exist. If that god offered unconditional love, it wouldn't put conditions on it.

To believe any of those things simultaneously is the very definition of insanity.

But a lot of other beliefs are pretty crazy, too, although it doesn't seem to interfere too much with day-to-day survival.

So either you admit you are insanely delusional, or you admit that other systems are just as valid as yours, or go sit quietly in the corner and talk with your spirit guides, angles (btw, are they right, obtuse, acute, or straight? just curious), or whatever else is in your head. You don't have to take meds if you don't want to, but you also can't expect anyone to validate your delusions unless you validate theirs in return.

Most of the "demons" that people have to deal with usually are their own better sense telling them that their current belief system is seriously whacked, and when they resolve the conflicts, the "demons" go away. But people hate to change, even when the change is for the better, and fight tooth and nail to keep from it.

SC, I am flattered to be the addressee of this fortnight's bump of your thread. Thank you.

Alas, I cannot fathom what Bertrand Russell's predictions about eugenics nor the sources of Alfred Nobel's fortune have to do with anything I posted here, lo, these many weeks ago.

Nice to hear from you again, though. Best to the missus.

This thread is old! but I will reply mainly based on the title of the thread that I was interested in and not so much the substance of conversation about christianity (interesting regardless) that went in the middle that didn't satisfy the reality of what is suggested that 'Spirituality...underlies Psychiatry'... It totally doesnt, 'spiritual problems' isn't used unless I'm mistaken (or maybe very very rarely)... A psychiatrist wouldn't even consider changing a diagnosis from schizophrenia to spiritual problems in a million years, since they see it how they want to see it and it's ignorant to spiritual aspect of psychology.........

I think the only time this part of the DSM is used in its context is in the case notes that some may be able to find examples of how it can be used (usually after anti-psychotics have been used as they are first line of defence for that type of thing)... I have a strong suspicion it isn't used as Psychiatrists are not qualified to judge a Spiritual experience (however controversial the idea of there being a link between some psychosis and spiritual emergencies on ATS).

A psychiatrist 99.9 percent of the time will judge anything spiritual or questioning faith, an experience with demonic entities, the voice of god, or idea of being inducted as a prophet or messenger as "delusion of spirituality" regardless of how rational the content actually is, they distort the truth of the individual to excuse labeling the person as having schizophrenia drugging and restraining them as danger to themselves or others, not able to provide consent into being drugged with mind altering toxins if they so much as resist the 'treatment' and 'medicine' for their own good? yet it derails them from the spriitual truth, I see as difficulties with ascension, birth pains , shedding the skin of the ego ........

meaning I think this section is a waste of time and basically never used in clinical setting, psychiatrist simply atheist in nature have no understanding of spiritual experience... I think this development in the DSM is supposed to be educational to ignorant doctors who label vivid religious and spiritual experience as schizophrenia or OCD etc, yet they can be helped with guidance in appropriate area's relivant to new interests in say shamanism, or their experience is a shaman initiation of sorts...

I would like to know how many people are labeled as such , and are given appropriate treatment as an alternative to anti-psychotics which would be routinely prescribed....

I noticed the OP at one point drew a relation with to Pharmakia' greek word for sorcery and witchcraft in the bible, and I agree that psychiatry may be acting on eugenics policy since the majority of those who have spiritual psychic classed as psychotic experience are drugged with toxins that cause sterility and premature death, maybe meaning psychiatry is a valuable asset to eugenics like it was in Nazi germany before the mentally defective were subject to cruel experiments and killed before Hitler authorized any eugenics and slaughter .... perhaps DSM is similar to methods used to select mentally defective for extermination (since eugenics is still operational and originated in UK and America which inspired Hitler, I believe psychiatry hasnt acknowledged these atrocities either)

The DSM is made in close relation to the drug companies (like 70percent of the board have financial ties to drug manufacturers) It is anything but a reference to learn about the mind and natural experience people have... Its a tool for labeling for insurance purposes and to prescribe drugs for the labels and that's about it..... I think SPiritual problems section is just a show and never practice unless the very few professionals who have studied it for clinical practice....

Maybe it could be seen as a step in the right direction for patients whose problems are spiritual, and it is important.. They typically get drugged to oblivion and spiritual relevance of the experience is knocked on the head.... And I bet a large portion of those with first episode psychosis will seek out on their own spiritual answers from Christianity even. I though Christians can perceive Paranoia , delusions , hallucianations and the idea of telepathy as being dependent on a fallen angel or cocodemon...... they can also see that psychiatry is practicing evil and will only cause death (and later realize sterility and loss of quality of life)

I think Jung is neglected in Psychiatry also.... Psychiatry is drug oriented not likely to find therapy for problems through a psychiatrist... The industry is full of lies about alternatives

I might have repeated myself, have this tendency to be very wordy...
It relates to Kundalini awakening which could be diagnosed as psychotic experience by ignorant doctors, I guess it fits into 'culture bound syndromes' with Qi Gong Deviation..... Ghost sickness from Native american culture is also a culture bound syndrome..