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Germany to U.S.: Take Away Your Nukes!

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posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Whatever.

After WWII, when the Soviet Union was staring them down, trying to close out Berlin, and take a predatory stance, whatever the US wanted was good enough for Germany.

They want our nukes out - fine. Move them to Poland, a people that likes America a lot better than Germany does. And start closing down German bases, and open up bases in Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, Hungary, as they would welcome us.

I know it's convenient to have these bases in Germany, but maybe we should keep one or two open for transit support, and get the hell out of there.

Let them start fending for themselves. They deserve a chance to provide for their own defense.

Besides, the muslim Turks are taking over anyway. France has it's Muslim problem as do most other European nations.

We can use those troops stationed in Germany somewhere else.

Get out of MATO (Mostly American Treaty Organization) and save a bundle. All the members do is bitch and whine anyway.




posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Of NATO forces in Europe during the heights of the cold war, 95% of the divisions, 85% of the tanks, 80% of the combat aircraft and 70% of the fighting ships were bought, paid for and manned by the Europeans.

That's not to diminish the US contribution, far from it. It's just putting things in perspective.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by K-Raz
reply to post by john124
 


I think the native Americans should do that as well, and kick you guys out as well.


I'm part Mescalero Indian descent. Why would I want to kick my own family out?

Next time before you open your big mouth to stick your foot into it. Remember many here have native blood on our veins. We can speak for ourselves.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by SLAYER69]


Ouch.
They don't call him Slayer for nothing.

-------------------------------------------



I say bring everybody home... EVERYBODY.

No more military aid.

No more money aid either for that matter.

Let the rest of the world take care of themselves.

They've been talking the talk for decades.

Time for some countries to put their military where their mouth is.

I'm ,of course, not talking about everybody. Lots of them are out there taking care of business......but the rest of you.....you know who you are.



[edit on 25-10-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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How little we know on ATS.

Germany has American bases on its soil so that American troops can protect Germany.

America pays millions, if not billions, of dollars to countries for the "lease" of these bases.

Pull out of Germany? I'd take a poll of the Germans before doing that.

They might have to fight for themselves, and what would they do without all that American money?

Since when was it a bad thing to have Americans in your country to protect you?

We are there so that Germany will not build a large military force to protect itself. Same with Japan. We all know where that goes. I can't believe there are so many comments in this thread stating that Germany should fend for themselves, building their own military. Do you read history?

Frankly, I think this is not up for discussion as long as one single soldier that fought in WWII is alive.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by Jim Scott]



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 


Probably a good thing you added "we" to the begining of that sentence.

In any case, they aren't talking about the whole US military establishment in Germany, they are talking strictly about hte Nuclear Warheads which will never be used and are an un-necessary risk to German security.

~Keeper



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 



Time for some countries to put their military where their mouth is.

I'm ,of course, not talking about everybody. Lots of them are out there taking care of business......but the rest of you.....you know who you are.


Agree 1000%.

Time to bring them home and let them deal with Iran, North Korea, Muslim extremists, and any other problems that come their way.

For the countries who still believe in us, you will have access to call the hotline when you are in a crisis.

For the countries who think all we do is butt in and create problems for the world, you will have access to elevator music when you are in a crisis. Hope you enjoy the long wait.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



they are talking strictly about hte Nuclear Warheads which will never be used and are an un-necessary risk to German security.


I have no problem with them wanting us to take our nukes out of their country. But IMO, it should be done through diplomatic channels and not through the press. With Obama wanting to reduce or eliminate nukes, I don't see how this wish would have not been approved.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 

The thing about being highly selective in what they want - screw that.

This isn't a damned buffet.

You want us, or you don't.

We stay, we do it our way within reason.

You want us to remove OUR nukes?

Fine.

We'll pack up and take it all with us. The American presence in Germany is a significant portion of their revenue. And when our tanks mess up the roads, we pay out our ass.

Especially in light of the costs of maintaining a presence in Germany, pack it up, get it out, and see if any of those Eastern European nations would like to host our bases.

As for Europe paying for the bulk of the costs at the height of the Cold War?

Who paid to rebuild the nation to start with?



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Dooper, I don't see why you take this as like a slap in the face tot he US. It really isn't.

Germany simply wants to remove the Nukes that aren't theres. And it wasn't done through the press it was a tentative agreement and they are simply stating what kind of discourse they would like to have with the US.

I mean now that Obama has a peace prize, perhaps Germany is capitalizing on that and pushing for more involvement with reducing the nuclear capabilities of all countries.

Again people jump to conclusions. Just cause they odn't want our nukes isn't an excuse to just tell them to go to hell all together. Your solution isn't diplomatic.

I agree that for too long America has been protecting those in times of need and then being spat on when they don't require the help, but that is the hand which has been deal to the us ever since WW2.

The fact of the matter is that the US has interests in those part of the world which they acquire through military means. The diplomacy is really just a facade of a much larger system.

~Keeper



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by dooperAs for Europe paying for the bulk of the costs at the height of the Cold War?

Who paid to rebuild the nation to start with?


The Europeans.

The Marshall Plan money, kindly loaned, wasn't a gift ; it had to be repaid by instalment with interest added. Most of the money was spent on American imports, foodstuffs to begin with then plant & machinery.

In effect it was a subsidy by the American taxpayer to American private industry.

I don't understand quite understand why you're so het up on the subject. I doubt you were alive in 1948.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I think what people fail to realize is that the revenue to the local economies is not just from "Leases" but from all the other support for the bases provided by the surrounding local economy such as food, electricity, fuel and not to mention Service members on leave spending their pay locally etc. Throw those figures into the equation. It's a hell of a lot more to local economies than they realize.

Just ask some areas in the Philippines and Japan after we left how they like it now. I say let's pull out.

I'm serious. Then if the need ever arises again for our help we should think long and hard about going back.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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OP:

...We want the last nuclear weapons that are stationed in Germany to be taken away," Westerwelle said at the conclusion of the coalition talks on Saturday. The U.S. doesn't disclose the exact number of nuclear warheads it still keeps in Germany, a legacy of its Cold War policy that dates back to the 1950s, and which made western Germany the frontline of its Soviet containment strategy. But German sources estimate there could be as many as 20 nukes still in the country...I wonder how many installations are still operational on German soil//

[...]

That is very interesting, when most other countries are pulling out or attempting to dance around the issue of Afghan support, it seems Germany is willing to continue the fight so long as the US keeps it's end of the bargain.

Any thoughts ATS?



When i was stationed in 'west' Germany, there were nothing like Thousands of 'Atomic Demolition Devices' on German soil.

since that time i would reckon the older 'Atomic Demolition' devices were upgraded to mini or low yield nukes... none of these are 'bombs'

ADM Platoons (atomic-demolition-munitions) were 'attached' to base units, in my familiar case it was a combat engineer unit near Nuremburg, where also a former Sec. of State grew up...(errr; Kissinger)

Ironic isn't it...the engineers built bridges & the ADM job
was to blow them up, living side-by-side in the same small Kaserns (bases)


Ulala :

A generation ago there were thousands of nuclear weapons on German soil, both sides of the border. If there's as few as 20, they serve only as a gentle reminder to our friends in the East that NATO is still prepared to use nuclear weapons



==othetenthpower

//In any case, they aren't talking about the whole US military establishment in Germany, they are talking strictly about hte Nuclear Warheads which will never be used and are an un-necessary risk to German security.



I'm almost certain that up to 98% of all those atomic-or-nuclear demolitions have been removed... but there has to be a skeleton crew of skilled technicions ready to accept and deliver then fire whats left of that particular arsenal... a fundamental infrastructure has to be operational even until today in 2010. NATO & not the USA most likely has command/control over any of those low-yield atomic demolition-munitions,
totally abandoning the ADMs would require a enlarged military presence on German soil so as to modify the battle tactics & strategy.


as far as GDR troops serving 'support' in Afghanistan.... well Merkel might be holding a carrot-on-a-stick, until any publically known nuclear devices are ceremoniously removed from German soil.


?



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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It's not as though I have a weed up my butt over this. I'm a bit more aware of the interwoven intricacies of the notion.

We can move OUT of Germany. For example, the Poles really like Americans, and we could move to a place that would be much more accommodating.

A host country doesn't feel comfortable with elements of our presence - then we should have the courtesy to get the hell out.

Boy, did the Phillipines ever take a hit. Were they ever sorry.

So let's give the Germans their wish, and then some.

Won't have to worry about our nukes, our troops, tearing up their roads, running over their flower gardens, or our money.

Be so much better for everyone.

Poland would be a more strategic location than Germany.

Since time recorded, every army going from West to East - had to go through Poland and Slovakia.

Those armies going from East to West - went through Poland and Slovakia.

Expanding from North to South, or South to North - yep - Poland.

Beer may not be as good, but goodwill would be much greater.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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why do peeps take affront to this. They simpley want to reomve wepons of mass destruction from there country. America does not protect europe. NATO does and amercia is a hinderece to that. Please just pull out of europe because europe is creating its own army and really has no need for america there. No ill feeling we can take care of our own matters a lot easier without outside interference. It was amreica that was against NATO attacking rgw Yugoslav military with ground forces and so we sent in planes and bombed them. They retaliated by killing a lot of civilians. the amreicans stopped the job being done propely because they calued the life of there own soliders too much.... europe is more than capable of sorting out europe. it will in time become a super power, rightly of wrongly

kx



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by purplemer
 

Oh. I agree.

The US can and should - pull out of MATO.

And no, that was not misspelled.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Go then.

No-one's stopping you.

Goodbye, au revoir, auf wieders'hn & arrivederci



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer
why do peeps take affront to this. They simpley want to reomve wepons of mass destruction from there country. America does not protect europe. NATO does and amercia is a hinderece to that. Please just pull out of europe because europe is creating its own army and really has no need for america there. No ill feeling we can take care of our own matters a lot easier without outside interference. It was amreica that was against NATO attacking rgw Yugoslav military with ground forces and so we sent in planes and bombed them. They retaliated by killing a lot of civilians. the amreicans stopped the job being done propely because they calued the life of there own soliders too much.... europe is more than capable of sorting out europe. it will in time become a super power, rightly of wrongly

kx


You know I'm so for the US pulling out of NATO and Europe as a whole that I won't even bother pointing out all the mistakes and falsehood in that.

And just agree.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Ulala
 


Oh. If only it were left up to me!

That loud sucking noise you'd be hearing?

The sound of the vacuum.

Besides, when the Muslims start kicking up in Europe, we're going to need those troops elsewhere.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


A vacuum ? The DoD probably paid $20,000 for that ... paid for by printing money out of thin air. Or borrowing it from Chinese, European banks.

Run along now. Act quickly. There's gunna be 100 million + hispanics teaching your grandchildren Spanish in 40 years. You got a big fence to build ... the Europeans can be relied upon to lend you money for that, hell we might even put establish some military bases in Texas and lend you a hand.

Que sera sera !



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Ulala
Run along now. Act quickly. There's gunna be 100 million + hispanics teaching your grandchildren Spanish in 40 years. You got a big fence to build ... the Europeans can be relied upon to lend you money for that, hell we might even put establish some military bases in Texas and lend you a hand.

Que sera sera !





Well enjoy Sharia law.
By the way how is that working out for ya?









[edit on 25-10-2009 by SLAYER69]



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