Yet Another nail in the coffin of christianity,

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's unfortunate that so many use these fringe stories to generalize a whole sect of people. However I understand what the OP is saying.

I love stories like this - its not generalizing - whether they use a machine to generate zap, or whether they just foam at the mouth and insist that people believe everything they say.

Its not a generalization to say they are in the business of taking people for a ride

I have no doubt the Pope himself is an atheist - he couldn't be sitting on the vatican library with all its ancient knowledge, without knowing the bible is a crock.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by chiron613

 

It's not a "nail in a coffin". It's one guy tricking some people. For every fraud like him, there are dozens of Christians trying to help others, working to feed hungry people, provide them with clean water, treat or prevent illness, and so on. Those quiet workers don't make the news, but they're far more typical of what Christianity is about.

Like who? Give examples.

I can give you plenty of examples of people who are not christians who help others.

Do not forget that those Christians who help others do for their own selfish reasons. What reasons? Like earning favor with God? Earning that golden crown? Etc.

Christian Aid

Tearfund.
Tearfund is a leading relief and development charity, working in partnership with Christian agencies and churches worldwide to tackle the causes and effects

CRY is a Christian charity dedicated to caring for disadvantaged, destitute and suffering children, young people and their families.


World Vision
Mission Statement:
World Vision is an international Christian humanitarian organization serving the world's poor and displaced by providing programs that help save lives, bring hope, and restore dignity. This assistance is provided without regard to people's religious beliefs, gender, or ethnic background.

Food for the Hungry
Mission Statement:
Food For The Hungry is an international organization of Christian motivation, committed to working with poor people to overcome hunger and poverty through integrated self-development and relief programs. Relief efforts include famines in Africa, typhoons in Southeast Asia, floods in the United States, and earthquakes in Central America.

Christian Disaster Relief
Mission Statement:
Develops transportation and distribution programs for disaster relief supplies through churches, missionaries and other Christian organizations in the affected areas.

How about these for starters, there are many, many more if you care to look.
If you knew anything at all about christianity you would know that you can not get to heaven by works that you do.
I have seen some stupid statements on this thread by people like yourself who just jump in feet first without thinking about what they are saying.

Christians do things for others because they care, just like those who help others that are not christian....

It's interesting to note that Benny Hinn comes to mind with so many people upon reading of these shenanigans.

My question is this...if it's so obvious that B.H. is a huckster and fraud...why has he been allowed to continue? If you or I ran a business like that, we would be shut down in a heartbeat. So why does government bend the rules for charlatans and their religious frauds?

Why does government go so far as to even "honor" these deceitful men?
(www.oksenate.org...)

Could it be because they bring in revenue for the town, the state, and for oath-pledged businesses and corporations?


Most powerful business people know the truth of what they are doing. They do not even see themselves as being greedy or deceitful. They justify their actions of allowing these frauds by saying if people are that stupid to believe this crap, then they get what they deserve.

reply to post by jon1


That is correct. They are doing all of that for selfish reasons. And don't forget about those who have been caught making millions of dollars out of those kinds of organizations. Some christian organizations may be genuine, but that doesn't eliminate their selfish reasons. They want the golden crowns, remember? Either serve God or be on the bottom. I remember this very well growing up in Christianity.


Red Cross is a huge organization and it is non religious. Atheist or non religious organizations help with NO STRINGS attached.

reply to post by Alethea


BINGO.

If it is all about money and control, then they are well protected.

I remember a TV show trying to expose Benny Hinn. They failed because he was too well protected. He makes so much money and brought so many control, especially in Africa that they decided that he was a worthy asset.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by jon1

 

That is correct. They are doing all of that for selfish reasons. And don't forget about those who have been caught making millions of dollars out of those kinds of organizations. Some christian organizations may be genuine, but that doesn't eliminate their selfish reasons. They want the golden crowns, remember? Either serve God or be on the bottom. I remember this very well growing up in Christianity.


Red Cross is a huge organization and it is non religious. Atheist or non religious organizations help with NO STRINGS attached.

What selfish reasons?
What golden crowns?
Serve God or be on the bottom?

You can't get in Gods good books by doing good deeds, remember, he looks at peoples hearts and he can see who is genuine or not.
Christians know this, so going out of thier way to help others with anything but a genuine heart will do them no good at all.

There are no golden crowns in christianity.

reply to post by jon1

You can't get in Gods good books by doing good deeds, remember, he looks at peoples hearts and he can see who is genuine or not. Christians know this, so going out of thier way to help others with anything but a genuine heart will do them no good at all.

I am not saying that they earn their way to heaven. I am talking about AFTER they got saved.

Yes, I grew up learning that you earn the crown in heaven if you do all the good deeds (after you got saved) (Look Revelations).

If Christians do the good deeds, they are on God's good side.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by jon1

 

You can't get in Gods good books by doing good deeds, remember, he looks at peoples hearts and he can see who is genuine or not. Christians know this, so going out of thier way to help others with anything but a genuine heart will do them no good at all.

I am not saying that they earn their way to heaven. I am talking about AFTER they got saved.

Yes, I grew up learning that you earn the crown in heaven if you do all the good deeds (after you got saved) (Look Revelations).

If Christians do the good deeds, they are on God's good side.

Well they can't be christians before they get saved...

I am sorry but you are wrong and so was the person that tought you that.
If you can point me to a verse in revelations i will gladly read it and give you a translation of what i read.
I am married to a priest/pastor and help run our church so i would be very surprised if you were right in what you say.




[edit on 24-10-2009 by jon1]

Just because one pastor is caught with a "shock machine" doesnt mean that other people havent experienced the real thing. I've had personal experience in being slained in the spirit, and i doubt the people who prayed over me had these little machines haha

We who humble ourselves to say we are Christians (followers of Christ) have our personal daily spiritual one on one time, know we were not duped into believing a hoax. It is as if heaven itself has fallen and covers me in the mist and the Father talks to me. I know other Christians have similar experiences.


There is no doubt there will always be cheaters and ones who try to pull the wool over our eyes, but the Holy Spirit is quick to let us know what is of Satan and evil. This however, doesn't stop the work of each follower to go out and tell all we meet about the Word.

The truth really is I can't wait to go home and see him face to face, Praise God!


Peace to everyone
Grandma

I guess catholic charities are just as evil and selfish as the pope himself.

Damn them for helping and feeding the poor and homeless with no return other than the hope of getting into heaven.

Terrible..terrible people they are.

Originally posted by moocowman


However I do admit that I denounce xtianity on the whole as delusional.

As a non-believer of western (and some eastern) religion in general, I wonder how you feel about the other "Big" Two western religions....

Again, in this thread as in many others, moocowman strikes a blow against Christianity based on the individual actions of a few.

In order for Christianity to be true, therefore, all of its adherents must be true. There can be no single person, in leadership or in a pew, who voices a wrong opinion, falls out of ranks, or acts against the Christian church.

Wow.

That's some pretty tough rules, moocowman.

According to your rules, there is no truth, no standard, no moral that can be voiced by anyone anywhere.

Is that reasonable?

If that is the case, moocowman, how do your values and positions merit an audience? Have you found yourself to be perfect?

Millions and millions of good Christians have kept the faith, loved their neighbor, sacrificed their lives for the good of mankind over the past 2000 years.

Your focus seems to be on the .000001 % to deny the truth of the Christian faith. A short review of your threads show about 80% of them are bashing Christianity or Christians. Is there a psychological problem here?

Could you be following after the lost sheep to prove the entire flock is lost?

[edit on 25-10-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by really

As a non-believer of western (and some eastern) religion in general, I wonder how you feel about the other "Big" Two western religions....

I find religion in general quite childish. An, invisible man in the sky has some rules for people to follow, in order to achieve this the invisible man needs intercessors to write books in order to communicate with the invisible mans' creation.

Quite ridiculous really, the notion that an omniscient,omnipresent,omnipotent creator of all that there is was or will ever be, could possibly fail to communicate directly with that which it is alleged to have created is the height of human stupidity and the greatest control mechanism ever created by man.

reply to post by Jim Scott

Again, in this thread as in many others, moocowman strikes a blow against Christianity based on the individual actions of a few.

The blow being struck was by the xtian in question I merely observed and reported it, needless to say I add my opinion of said event.

In order for Christianity to be true, therefore, all of its adherents must be true.

In order for the "Claims" of xtianity to be true it must provide evidence to prove its' case, it has failed to do so for over 2000 years.

There can be no single person, in leadership or in a pew, who voices a wrong opinion, falls out of ranks, or acts against the Christian church.

Until evidence of their claims are proved all opinions of leadership or in a pew are but that "opinions". The opinion is of the claims but there is no proof of the claim, so the claim remains errant or a deception, this particular pastor was caught out in his deception the reminder ere either in error or deceiving either way their results are the same.

According to your rules, there is no truth, no standard, no moral that can be voiced by anyone anywhere. Is that reasonable?

In order for something to be held as true it requires proof of such, in this instance there is no proof only a belief which requires no evidence of truth and is thus known as faith.
A relationship with a being based on faith and no proof of that being is a delusion.

To proclaim a truth based on what appears to have all the hallmarks of a delusion is everyone right to voice.

Magicians only become illusionists once the illusion is exposed for what it is but at the end of the day it's the same man doing the same thing -

Smoke and Mirrors

If that is the case, moocowman, how do your values and positions merit an audience? Have you found yourself to be perfect?

My values and positions are my own and because they are my own they do not seek an audience and are changeable without fear or guilt.
As I am not a seeker of perfection I find myself as I am and possibly will be. The notion that something that is perfection itself could possibly create something imperfect requires mental gymnastics that waste a whole lot of life.

Millions and millions of good Christians have kept the faith, loved their neighbor, sacrificed their lives for the good of mankind over the past 2000 years.

Millions and millions of non xtians have done likewise minus the faith what are you trying to prove ?

. A short review of your threads show about 80% of them are bashing Christianity or Christians. Is there a psychological problem here?

Yes there is a psychological problem here, deluded people would impose their delusion upon me should I not make every attempt to prevent it occurring, not unlike xtians not wanting to be under the yoke of Sharia law.

Could you be following after the lost sheep to prove the entire flock is lost?

All the sheep are branded one eats from the crop the rest remain in the field, they are all on the farm none are lost but the sheep that eats from the crop is smart enough not to tell the rest of the flock about the crop, sheeple are sheeple.

MOOCOWPATMAN --- silly moo

southend / northbound .......2nd line

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by Alethea

 

BINGO.

If it is all about money and control, then they are well protected.

I remember a TV show trying to expose Benny Hinn. They failed because he was too well protected. He makes so much money and brought so many control, especially in Africa that they decided that he was a worthy asset.

do as much as he does and then you are free to criticize

[edit on 25-10-2009 by ZenOnKwalsky]

i dont have a problem with the original message of christianity itself, but i have a huge problem with religious zealots like this, on any level, in any county.

In the coffin of Christianity? As if Christianity is dead? The number of Christians continue to grow world wide, especially in China.

This isn't a nail in any thing except to possibly the freedom of this man.
Atheist's don't lie, steal and do much worse? Your statement makes no sense and it only shows your insecurity of your own disbelief. Instead of facing yourself, you go after what is to you, an easy target, because you have a weak mind and fail to see your own hypocrisy.

Jesus Christ isn't a hypocrite. What he said and revealed and what was said through His apostles is just as valid today as it was then. Just because people have done horrible things while masquerading as a Christian, does not mean Christianity is at fault. One look at the words of Jesus and the apostles prove that.

There also seems to be a misunderstanding of what Christianity is all about. You don't need Jesus to give up drugs and love for material goods. But you can't give yourself up unless you give your self up for the LORD. And that is what it's all about!

[edit on 25-10-2009 by TruthSeeker8300]

[edit on 25-10-2009 by TruthSeeker8300]

Jesus isn't dead so Christianity dosn't even have a coffin. pal.