Bush: "God wants me to be President"

Originally posted by Seekerof
Oh gee, how lovely, another Political MudPit "Let's bash Bush thread."

Btw, G_d told me to say this.

seekerof

I didn't start this thread because I wanted to bash Bush, but if ANY President said that same thing, it would still draw my suspicion.

Originally posted by kegs
If God is planning on bringing on the apocalypse, I suppose he's the logical choice.

Seriously though, I really hate the idea of people in power being swayed by their religious beliefs, and personally I find his claims to 'Christian values' false, saccharine, sickening and offensive in the way that it's mostly to harness the vote of right wing Bible bashers.

There's not much difference between having Christian fundamentalist dogma in the Whitehouse, and the Muslim fundamentalism of Bin Laden. Both two very scary ideals for the world...


[Edited on 18-5-2004 by kegs]

Only because of your ignorance of Christianity. Christianity is not, and has not been a threat to this nation in its 225+ years of being. As a matter of fact, the nation is expected to be a Christian nation, according to the Founding Fathers, who framed the government for this nation.
Christianity has a solid foundation in Biblical Law, which is Natural Law, which is the foundation upon which our liberties and rights, not to mention law, is based. That means it doesn't shift and change with the changes of the evil and fickle hearts of man.
The concept of Christianity being a bad thing is a new concept, born in the early 60's and has grown throughout the last few decades of social reengineering. The question you should ask yourself is, why? Islam and Christianity is not the same thing, and Christian nations and Christian leaderships do not conduct themselves as Islamic nations do.

As far as God wanting Shrub to be president, that is not an odd concept at all. God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders. The fact that Shrub felt God wanted him to be president should not be surprising at all. Why wouldn't Kerry, for that matter, feel that way? If he doesn't, why bother running?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Islam and Christianity is not the same thing, and Christian nations and Christian leaderships do not conduct themselves as Islamic nations do.

True. There are no Christian nations that rule their country on just one religion any more. There used to be, but they all turned into melting pots for religion and ethnicity. I don't think there is a such thing as a Christian nation anymore. Just like there shouldn't be a specified religion for any country.

I realize that our country was founded on Christianity, but the religion itself doesn't control it. Religion in general does, but not just Christianity. I only have one thing against Christianity, and that is the fact that it teaches far too many people (unintentionally) to be ignorant of many other possiblities/theories/ect...

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As far as God wanting Shrub to be president, that is not an odd concept at all. God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders. The fact that Shrub felt God wanted him to be president should not be surprising at all. Why wouldn't Kerry, for that matter, feel that way? If he doesn't, why bother running?

I understand your point, and no, it's not an odd concept. But, you must admit, that is an extremely self-righteous attitude to take on. I mean, honestly, the arguement can be made for any such thing; a garbage man can say "God wants me to be a garbage man" simply because he IS one.
IMO, if God was going to take a side in this matter (setting aside the myriad of arguements there), I would think that Bush wouldn't need vote recounts, faulty voting systems, sickeningly-huge contributions from third parties, and the power of his last name to become President.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
The fact that Shrub felt God wanted him to be president should not be surprising at all. Why wouldn't Kerry, for that matter, feel that way? If he doesn't, why bother running?

It's extemely odd & indicative of a fundamentalist rationale that should be no where near a position of leadership, much less the presidency. People, rational non-fundamentalist people, are devout in their spirituality but don't deny free will like a fundie would. There win or loss is by grace of the application of talents that their creator equipped them with & had them develop to the best of their ability.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As far as God wanting Shrub to be president, that is not an odd concept at all. God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders. The fact that Shrub felt God wanted him to be president should not be surprising at all. Why wouldn't Kerry, for that matter, feel that way? If he doesn't, why bother running?

Since: "God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders."; Everything is as it should be, in accordance with Godswill.

So much for free-will. Why is everyone complaining so much if everything is determined for them? Is it God's design that we "Greatest of God's creation" bicker and kill each other for no other reason than His entertainment?

Didn't GOD tell Berkowitz?(son of sam) to kill all those people.
Oh wait that was the neighbors DOG. Oh well, does it really matter anyways.

The only gripe I have with what Dubya said in the special is the part when he is visiting the black church. He holds up a bible and says this law is higher than any other...wrong. In his faith that maybe the case but as president you don't hold up a bible and call it the highest law. The constitution is the highest law. Religion has no place in government. God maybe, but not religion.

I am not against Christianity. I consider myself to be a christian. Every time one of these threads pops up folk get branded anti-God or anti-Christ (haha, that is not really a man but a spirit that will over take the people). America was not founded as a Christian nation as James Madison wrote...

Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance, and I have no doubt that every example will succeed, as every pass one had done, showing that religion and government will both exist in higher purity the less they are mixed together

This swing back toward religion in government is counter to what this country was founded on which is basic rights to determine when and how to serve your higher power. That is why many left europe and that is why many wanted their own nation. Dubya is wrong on this. Even if he feels he was called by God he should never base his decisions on that calling but on the rights provided us by the constitution.

[Edited on 22-5-2004 by Saphronia]

oh and there is one more thing...

when G.Dub and his mother had a debate about who goes to heaven. Dub specifically said that no none christian will go to heaven. even after Bob Graham told him that people of all faiths can be right with God he refused to accept that interuptation. That is his right, but at the same time it was kind of unsettling. We have a president that believes millions of us are damned. Scary.

Thank-you Saphronia. I couldn't agree more. I too feel myself to be a spiritual being. I am greatly insulted to be told that I cannot attain salvation by my President because I am a Jew. I do NOT think that Shrubya is pandering to the Religious Right, I think he is a True Believer. THAT is what scares me.

Cappa, yes, I agree that it seems a bit odd to say such a thing. Keep in mind with Bush, has a unique way of speaking. As he said, "Oftentimes what I try to say in Washington gets filtered and sometimes my words in Washington don't exactly translate directly to the people."

What do you mean by "fundamentalist", BT? Do you mean an actual practicing Christian, rather than somebody who calls himself a Christian because he figures he should call himself something?

BT, you are at odds with the Founding Fathers, who said we have the duty to appoint Christians as leaders. George Washington, the first elected president, spent more time on his knees than you would ever want to know! If I were to have to follow the words of how this country should be, trust me, I'll follow there words rather than yours!

Saphie, you know as well as I that I've covered in great detail why this nation is based on Christianity, and you know that James Madison, himself, said that. As a matter of fact, he made it clear that it wasn't based on Religion but Christianity.
Again, the Bible is natural law, and that is what this nation is built upon, which indeed makes Dubbya correct. I'm sorry this disturbs you, it shouldn't. It also should not disturb you that this is a Christian nation.
Therefore the swing back toward Christianity is not against the foundations of this nation, but IAW them. We should never have left.

Another thing, Saphie, what scares me is that you and millions of other Americans actually think that the constitution "provides" your rights. Again, that is not what was clearly said by those who wrote the documentation that frames our government. Your rights are given by God,protected by the constitution. Big difference; what man gives you he can take away. What God gives you, man has no authority to take away.

As far as Dubbya and Bob Graham, Christ said there is no other way to the Father but by the Son. That doesn't leave any wriggle room. Anyone who considers themself a Christian and does not understand that basic part of salvation, to accept Christ as their only salvation, might better reconsider where they stand with Christ. It wouldn't be the first time a preacher got something wrong.

Originally posted by scottsquared

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As far as God wanting Shrub to be president, that is not an odd concept at all. God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders. The fact that Shrub felt God wanted him to be president should not be surprising at all. Why wouldn't Kerry, for that matter, feel that way? If he doesn't, why bother running?

Since: "God does control the leaders and who will be the leaders."; Everything is as it should be, in accordance with Godswill.

So much for free-will. Why is everyone complaining so much if everything is determined for them? Is it God's design that we "Greatest of God's creation" bicker and kill each other for no other reason than His entertainment?

You seem to miss the point. Your free will is still there, and the national free will is there, but you will get just what you have coming to you. There are spiritual laws that are just as strong as the laws of physics. A nation will get just what they have coming to them. Look at it from a macro point of view, rather than a micro point of view; don't get the two confused.

TC,
One of the your most lucid comments of recent note. I agree with your assertions as to getting what we deserve, and about spiritual law(natural law) being superior or eaqual to physical law. Additionally, we don't just get what we deserve, but what we NEED. I suggest that it is our personal interpretations which are skewed.

Maybe Dubya is President today BECAUSE he is such a polarizing figure. Maybe it is God's design to drive a wedge, or maybe just to make us think. I hate to say this, but, I don't think that free-will plays nearly as big a part in the grand play that is humanity as supposed free-thinking people would like to believe.

Originally posted by scottsquared
Maybe Dubya is President today BECAUSE he is such a polarizing figure. Maybe it is God's design to drive a wedge, or maybe just to make us think. I hate to say this, but, I don't think that free-will plays nearly as big a part in the grand play that is humanity as supposed free-thinking people would like to believe.

Just as much as you hate to say it, I hate to have to agree with you. In the society we have today, the idea of what our government is supposed to be has been skewed, I think.

Free will is a fine idea for the individual, but when it comes down to the masses, and such things as bringing people together for elections, it seems to me that we as a people become drops in an ocean of sameness. And I don't mean just because each person has one vote, I mean because a presidential candidate can say any number of things on a list of 'right things' to say to a certain group of people to gain their backing, and in many cases, that's nearly all it takes.

Although I'm not altogether familiar with their system, I personally like how Spain dealt with their leader after the Madrid bombing-- they went to the streets, shortly after called a vote, and replaced their leader in a very civilized manner, with non-violent protest and a timely vote.
This system would force the leader to be a man of the people, because the masses could revoke him at nearly any time.

There is a growing theory out there that it is part of the collective unconciousness driving the polarization issue. That on a deep sub-concious level, we humans have come to the realization that we are doomed as a species. That it is this sub-concious realization that has us driven to the extremes, an unconcious "grasping at straws."

I don't share that sentiment exactly the same, Scott, though I do feel what we Christians call the "Rapture" is very near. But don't mind me, I stocked up on a couple hundred pounds of rice, canned food and several gallons of lamp oil for Y2K!

You know, I've been waiting for someone to come to this thread and say, "Well, God may have voted for him, but I sure as Hell didn't!!"

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

You know, I've been waiting for someone to come to this thread and say, "Well, God may have voted for him, but I sure as Hell didn't!!"

WELL, GOD MAY HAVE VOTED FOR HIM, BUT I SURE DIDN'T!!

I didn't vote for Al Snore either. God wouldn't let me.