Asian EU-style community by 2015, page 2
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reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 08:35 AM by Solomons
reply to post by Outlawstar


Not yet,if you happened to get locked in a cryogenic freezer tomorrow and woken up in ohhh say 200 years time. I think the human outlook about such an ideal would be vastly different to ours. The EU as a super state is a great idea imo, just sad that it is not implemented correctly and run by old,bitter and wealthy men from their ivory tower.


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 08:55 AM by Outlawstar
Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Outlawstar


Not yet,if you happened to get locked in a cryogenic freezer tomorrow and woken up in ohhh say 200 years time. I think the human outlook about such an ideal would be vastly different to ours. The EU as a super state is a great idea imo, just sad that it is not implemented correctly and run by old,bitter and wealthy men from their ivory tower.



Of course its a great idea save the last points you made, but unfortunatly those points stand and it is currently a horrible idea, the culminatin of an age old goal of empire.


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 09:39 AM by Dermo
reply to post by Outlawstar


Why not?

Without some sort of supranational, supra-continental governance body, nationalistic ideals take over and cause conflicts.. Its a basic problem of mankind and needs to be curbed.

An actual one world government cannot work until there are several worlds... its a new basic economics model based on trade blocs but AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE IN THIS THREAD THAT YOU SEEM TO KEEP CHOOSING TO IGNORE - THESE BLOCS WILL NEED SOME SORT OF GOVERNANCE OR REGULATORY BODIES IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER PROPERLY - this will be the "Global Government" that will evolve over the next COUPLE OF HUNDRED YEARS.

Can you see into the future? How do you know we won't need a form of global government like I described above in a hundred years time? Think about the world of 100 years ago. Extremely unstable because of no inter-dependability. Of course we don't need one now.. even though the ones we have.. WTO, UN etc serve us pretty well for what they do - We aren't going to have a decent global governance body before we die anyway, you really have nothing to worry about. The logistics are staggering and we are nowhere near it yet.

This isn't a scifi movie. We don't have some wanna bee dictator trying to take over the world with some sort of doomsday device.

Fair enough, there are a lot of Corporations, financial institutions, politicians and families pushing for this.. but when in history has there not? Except this time they are doing it without massive bloody wars and dozens of millions killed... and that to me is extremely important.

I'm naive? Two years ago, i had your views, I now see those views as naive, manipulated by sensationalism for profit. I bet if I searched through some of my original posts here I could dig up some where my argument was exactly like yours.. however, I have watched and researched and theorized come to these conclusions myself so there's no point, as I already said, in trying to change my perspectives on this.

From what i see with people that are so into the conspiracy theory end in Ireland & Europe is that they are listening too much to the American perspective and viewing it as their own.

The vast majority of the New World Order conspiracies that evolve in the US of A and are a direct result of these people's fear of a receding empire and a fear of a multipolar world. Not all but most that I have looked into. And this will begin to make complete sense to you if you take that on board... everything from the death of the dollar to the multipolar world to some of the global warming conspiracies.. all issues that American writers like Alex Jones sensationalize that have little or no affect on us whatsoever.

EU? End of democracy? Nonsense! End of our National sovereignty? Fair enough but not in the old fashioned sense.

The EU was by far the best thing to ever happen to our former disgrace of a country. Nationalism is an emotion and I am the first one to admit that that is EU conditioning at work on me but I 100% agree with it and while there are a large number of things I disagree with in regards the EU.. its evolution is unstoppable so try and figure a way to proactively affect it instead of worrying about it.

And finally. There is no point in being a bigot, get the fact that others have opinions that are not exactly like yours please because thats all I am expressing.



reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 10:32 AM by Outlawstar
Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by Outlawstar


Why not?



Without some sort of supranational, supra-continental governance body, nationalistic ideals take over and cause conflicts.. Its a basic problem of mankind and needs to be curbed.



If you think nationalistic ideals are the main cause of wars, you need to think again!!!



An actual one world government cannot work until there are several worlds... its a new basic economics model based on trade blocs but AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE IN THIS THREAD THAT YOU SEEM TO KEEP CHOOSING TO IGNORE - THESE BLOCS WILL NEED SOME SORT OF GOVERNANCE OR REGULATORY BODIES IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER PROPERLY - this will be the "Global Government" that will evolve over the next COUPLE OF HUNDRED YEARS.


Intriguing, you can tell teh future.Oh and note your next point and realize the irony!



Can you see into the future? How do you know we won't need a form of global government like I described above in a hundred years time? Think about the world of 100 years ago. Extremely unstable because of no inter-dependability. Of course we don't need one now.. even though the ones we have.. WTO, UN etc serve us pretty well for what they do - We aren't going to have a decent global governance body before we die anyway, you really have nothing to worry about. The logistics are staggering and we are nowhere near it yet.


UN serves us well?, WTO serves us well? Wow!!



This isn't a scifi movie. We don't have some wanna bee dictator trying to take over the world with some sort of doomsday device.


Yes because thats what I implied.



Fair enough, there are a lot of Corporations, financial institutions, politicians and families pushing for this.. but when in history has there not? Except this time they are doing it without massive bloody wars and dozens of millions killed... and that to me is extremely important.


Are you actually for real here, the same people re perpetrating more wars than ever, does that matter to you?
We are dealing with sick, social darwinists, we are dealing with power hungry people with a world government in mind that is in no way based on actual human values.



I'm naive? Two years ago, i had your views, I now see those views as naive, manipulated by sensationalism for profit. I bet if I searched through some of my original posts here I could dig up some where my argument was exactly like yours.. however, I have watched and researched and theorized come to these conclusions myself so there's no point, as I already said, in trying to change my perspectives on this.


Right so youve spent two years stepping backwarrds, good job!



From what i see with people that are so into the conspiracy theory end in Ireland & Europe is that they are listening too much to the American perspective and viewing it as their own.


Even the way you refer to it as conspiracy theory, when its in our faces, disturbs me, you really think we need LISBON!!!
you really think we cant sustain our own economy without EUROPE!!
You really want a body of unelected officials governing your country and overuling your constitution when they see fit, you really want that?


The vast majority of the New World Order conspiracies that evolve in the US of A and are a direct result of these people's fear of a receding empire and a fear of a multipolar world. Not all but most that I have looked into. And this will begin to make complete sense to you if you take that on board... everything from the death of the dollar to the multipolar world to some of the global warming conspiracies.. all issues that American writers like Alex Jones sensationalize that have little or no affect on us whatsoever.


IF you really think those issues have no effect on us, than Im am very sorry you you are extremely uninformed!!!!


EU? End of democracy? Nonsense! End of our National sovereignty? Fair enough but not in the old fashioned sense.


Yes end of democracy, have you followed ANYTHING thats happened these last few years, the Treaty was FORCED through in countries without the consent of the people and written purposely so we couldint understand that we are SIGNING OUR SOULS AWAY TO MORE INVISIBLE OLIGARCHS!!
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!





And finally. There is no point in being a bigot, get the fact that others have opinions that are not exactly like yours please because thats all I am expressing.



First I didint say anything implying that, second........likewise.


[edit on 28-10-2009 by Outlawstar]

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Outlawstar]


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 10:59 AM by Dermo
Originally posted by Outlawstar
If you think nationalistic ideals are the main cause of wars, you need to think again!!!


So Nationalistic ideals have never caused wars?



Intriguing, you can tell teh future.Oh and note your next point and realize the irony!


Touche lol



UN serves us well?, WTO serves us well? Wow!!


I said "they serve us well for what they do" and they do.



Yes because thats what I implied.


Thats what I am reading between the lines



Are you actually for real here, the same people re perpetrating more wars than ever, does that matter to you?
We are dealing with sick, social darwinists, we are dealing with power hungry people with a world government in mind that is in no way based on actual human values.


With less people dying. As I said, that matters to me. I don't agree with the perpetual wars but those in central Asia are for the purpose of destabilizing the Eurasian landmass in order for the US to continue its military dominance. We can't do anything about these plans as they were drawn up by the US elite through the Trilateral commission, CFR and several other "NWO" institutions in the 90's.

This is a US empire dominance plan, not a globalist agenda in the traditionalist sense. You can find a lot of info and references on this site if you are interested - www.globalresearch.ca...



Right so youve spent two years stepping backwarrds, good job!


You know my views before that? Realism is backwards?



you really think we cant sustain our own economy without EUROPE!!


Eh?

We can't do # without Europe. Look what we were before Europe. Look who is the main stabilizing force in our Economy now.


IF you really think those issues have no effect on us, than Im am very sorry you you are extremely uninformed!!!!


You remind me so much of myself a couple of years ago its kind of funny. I feel very very sorry for you too


Yes end of democracy, have you followed ANYTHING thats happened these last few years, the Treaty was FORCED through in countries without the consent of the people and written purposely so we couldint understand that we are SIGNING OUR SOULS AWAY TO MORE INVISIBLE OLIGARCHS!!
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!


Stop talking to me as if I don't see the problems - I canvassed my arse off against the original Lisbon treaty because they weren't being truthful about the whole process but that changed after the no vote.. Fact is, the democratizing of the EU goes hand in hand with the loss of sovereignty. By the time the EU is actually powerful, the Parliament will be by far the most important body and its members will be democratically elected as they are today. This is always evolving and is written into the basis of the Lisbon EU.


We are not going to agree on this and my perspective is not going to change. I respect what you are saying as I do see these things already, just not on such a scale of importance as you.

Im not going to reply to you anymore in this thread as I don't see a reason so have a nice life


reply posted on 28-10-2009 @ 12:12 PM by Outlawstar
Originally posted by Dermo
Originally posted by Outlawstar
If you think nationalistic ideals are the main cause of wars, you need to think again!!!


So Nationalistic ideals have never caused wars?



Intriguing, you can tell teh future.Oh and note your next point and realize the irony!


Touche lol



UN serves us well?, WTO serves us well? Wow!!


I said "they serve us well for what they do" and they do.



Yes because thats what I implied.


Thats what I am reading between the lines



Are you actually for real here, the same people re perpetrating more wars than ever, does that matter to you?
We are dealing with sick, social darwinists, we are dealing with power hungry people with a world government in mind that is in no way based on actual human values.


With less people dying. As I said, that matters to me. I don't agree with the perpetual wars but those in central Asia are for the purpose of destabilizing the Eurasian landmass in order for the US to continue its military dominance. We can't do anything about these plans as they were drawn up by the US elite through the Trilateral commission, CFR and several other "NWO" institutions in the 90's.

This is a US empire dominance plan, not a globalist agenda in the traditionalist sense. You can find a lot of info and references on this site if you are interested - www.globalresearch.ca...



Right so youve spent two years stepping backwarrds, good job!


You know my views before that? Realism is backwards?



you really think we cant sustain our own economy without EUROPE!!


Eh?

We can't do # without Europe. Look what we were before Europe. Look who is the main stabilizing force in our Economy now.


IF you really think those issues have no effect on us, than Im am very sorry you you are extremely uninformed!!!!


You remind me so much of myself a couple of years ago its kind of funny. I feel very very sorry for you too


Yes end of democracy, have you followed ANYTHING thats happened these last few years, the Treaty was FORCED through in countries without the consent of the people and written purposely so we couldint understand that we are SIGNING OUR SOULS AWAY TO MORE INVISIBLE OLIGARCHS!!
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!


Stop talking to me as if I don't see the problems - I canvassed my arse off against the original Lisbon treaty because they weren't being truthful about the whole process but that changed after the no vote.. Fact is, the democratizing of the EU goes hand in hand with the loss of sovereignty. By the time the EU is actually powerful, the Parliament will be by far the most important body and its members will be democratically elected as they are today. This is always evolving and is written into the basis of the Lisbon EU.


We are not going to agree on this and my perspective is not going to change. I respect what you are saying as I do see these things already, just not on such a scale of importance as you.

Im not going to reply to you anymore in this thread as I don't see a reason so have a nice life



Fair enough
Agreed.
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