The U.F.O. Party Gatecrashers

Originally posted by ArMaP
If we do not accept people that deny the possibility of extraterrestrial life, how do you expect to make them learn that they are approaching it in the wrong way?....
That's why I think that we should not limit any forum to a specific type of person and why I think that even some apparently off-topic posts may be left on a thread, sometimes the best way of solving a problem is by diverting out thought to a different thing for some time.

I agree in principle ArMap, but in practice I really don't think it works out that way.

I think having too many members posting with this unrestrained attitude of snarky, sneering, hostile denial of the very possibility of ET life and visitation seriously handicaps this forum and stalls discussion.

I think the battle here between the reasonable members on one hand - the authentically 'skeptical' and the rational 'believers' - and this very vocal group of sneering 'disbelievers' on the other, is being lost by the former. And the latter are not learning anything, IMO, except that any discussion can be derailed with a few well chosen insults and that doing so endless fun LOL.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by Malcram]

reply to post by Malcram

It was just a bear pit.

More of them have seemed to be gathering for the feast lately.
What could be attracting them?

Originally posted by Malcram
I think having too many members posting with this unrestrained attitude of snarky, sneering, hostile denial of the very possibility of ET life and visitation seriously handicaps this forum and stalls discussion.

That's why we have the "Alert" button at the bottom of each post, for when people start to cross the barrier of what is admissible in a civilised discussion.

And the latter are not learning anything, IMO, except that any discussion can be derailed with a few well chosen insults and that doing so endless fun LOL.

Anyone can learn, you just have to speak (write) to them in the right way to make them reach a point where they start doubting their own ideas, that's when the need for more knowledge appears in them.


And I guarantee that it works, I have done it some times, about UFOs and other subjects.

PS: but you have to be patient, people do not like to be rushed out of their comfort zone.

Originally posted by ArMaPThat's why we have the "Alert" button at the bottom of each post, for when people start to cross the barrier of what is admissible in a civilised discussion.

Yes, but as I said at the beginning, the issue is not just about overtly abusive posts, but completely pointless ones, given the topic of this forum. For instance, if there was a member who in every thread simply replied: "You people need to wake up and give yourself to Jesus. He is the Lord and your interest in Aliens is just flirting with demonism.", then I doubt you'd be impressed. Their posts aren't abusive, but they have no real place here. And if there were enough such members posting things like that then ATS would be rendered unviable as a forum for reasonable discussion.

Similarly, if all a member contributes is closed minded denial of the very possibility of ET life and it's connection with UFO's then they aren't contributing anything either. If such pointless posts are accompanied by snarky sarcasm and constant jibes (even if not quite 'alert' worthy) and there are enough members constantly posting them, then other members are required to have the patience of saints to put up with this and to try to continue a discussion despite it. And why should they have to put up with this?

Anyone can learn, you just have to speak (write) to them in the right way to make them reach a point where they start doubting their own ideas, that's when the need for more knowledge appears in them. And I guarantee that it works, I have done it some times, about UFOs and other subjects. PS: but you have to be patient, people do not like to be rushed out of their comfort zone.

I admire your desire for tolerance of such members who relish being disruptive and rude but I can't help but think of Dr Lawrence's endless tolerance for the antics of Anne, no matter how troublesome to those around her. (Make sure to watch at least from 0:55 which illustrates the point nicely, I think. Plus it's hilarious)



[edit on 24-10-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by ziggystar60
But that does not mean that I will take any grainy photo, blurred YouTube video or tall tale as a proof of UFOs and aliens visiting us. I still have the right to question any material presented, and I also have every right to say so if I think there is a very mundane explanation for a strange light in the sky. Does that make me a skeptic?

DOES that make a skeptic? Since I won't just take that as a prove either. Are you sure that's what Malcram was talking about though?

In ATS, believing in the existence of ET is the norm. ATS itself is the skeptic of the mainstream. Since the norm of the mainstream is ET doesn't exist. Hence if you go to ATS, you might not believe the norm but don't attack the actual norm and ridicule it.

Originally posted by Malcram
For instance, if there was a member who in every thread simply replied: "You people need to wake up and give yourself to Jesus. He is the Lord and your interest in Aliens is just flirting with demonism.", then I doubt you'd be impressed. Their posts aren't abusive, but they have no real place here.

That would be off-topic, so the staff should be alerted to them.

Similarly, if all a member contributes is closed minded denial of the very possibility of ET life and it's connection with UFO's then they aren't contributing anything either.

They may contribute, their posts may become noticeable as a disruption even to people that started out by agreeing with them, but their actions will show how they really are and the "extremists" may loose some of their "audience" because of that.

Just give them enough rope...

If such pointless posts are accompanied by snarky sarcasm and constant jibes (even if not quite 'alert' worthy) and there are enough members constantly posting them, then other members are required to have the patience of saints to put up with this and to try to continue a discussion despite it. And why should they have to put up with this?

If things turn into a distraction from the real discussion, once more, the staff should be alerted, those actions are just like radiation, they accumulate, and when they reach their critic mass they may even enough for a post ban.

I didn't meant that other members "are required to have patience", but they would gain a lot by having it, but that should not even be needed, just hit the "Alert" button, the worst thing that can happen is that it is not considered bad enough for direct action, but that rarely happens.

I admire your desire for tolerance of such members who relish being disruptive and rude but I can't help but think of Dr Lawrence's endless tolerance for the antics of Anne, no matter how troublesome to those around her.

Why didn't they phoned to Anne, it looks like the right way of communicating in this case.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
Hence if you go to ATS, you might not believe the norm but don't attack the actual norm and ridicule it.

Yes, but don't expect to be treated in a different way just because your opinion is the same as the majority or not, all people should have the same rights, only when they start abusing them should they have some restrictions, a discussion forum (or anything else) that likes to see itself as being on the "right side" should never be based in restrictions of the membership.

Double post.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by ArMaP

Hi ArMap. Thanks for your response.

It seems like you are saying that all the solutions to this problem are already in place.

So why do we still have the problem and why is it so pervasive? I know I'm not the only member who feels this way and it's obvious this forum is constantly riven with conflict and a pretty odious atmosphere. I think this forum has become incredibly unfertile ground for reasonable discussion and investigation. I also think I see what is causing this an how it could be reduced somewhat. But perhaps I am naive in hoping for improvement.

Why didn't they phoned to Anne, it looks like the right way of communicating in this case.

Yeah, I love when that happens. I think that character is hilarious. LOL

Originally posted by Malcram
It seems like you are saying that all the solutions to this problem are already in place.

I think so.

What we all should remember is that ATS is what we make of it, we have all to "police" ourselves one another to keep us from turning ATS in something we do not like and let a few spoil what many like.

But we should never be out of line, because then we do not have any moral authority to criticise other people by behaving in a bad way.

At least that's how I see it.

When the skeptic provokes dont try to convert him prove to him jump to or read the next post pass the skeptics commet .(first check if he is a regular ufo denier ) in his past posts topics.(is this against the hate bill????

I believe in ufos ive seen them 3 diff ocasions , i also seen an et on my bed.
BUT i get mad at the people swindleing and getting iconic status really they are pedlars of re released done up with frills ufo acounts --- already done to death ,buy my new book ET to land this month added cr_p also so called federation of light AND BLOSSOM CHILD.
They are supposed to be in the know???I think they know how to make money em__???..our is it the chicks at the ufo conferences and lifestyle the nce hotels beeches oh australia then to spain its a network of made up money generation i may be wrong but it dont sit well with me exopolitics--- iF ET comes i think it will be a space agency gets the breaking news deal with a president with the scientist

Tolerance and equality get in the way of progress.

Think of it like a school classroom full of both disruptive children and children who want to learn. That class is always going to be held back by the disruptive children. If you separate that class then those children who want to learn will excel.

What I’d do personally is have a separate forum for sceptics and one for believers and maybe a debate forum where the two can meet.

Originally posted by Edward 1st
Think of it like a school classroom full of both disruptive children and children who want to learn. That class is always going to be held back by the disruptive children. If you separate that class then those children who want to learn will excel.

Yes, that's true, but what was proposed was the separation before they become disruptive, based on their opinions, and that, to me, it's not the right way of doing things.

That would be punishing people for their opinions and not for their actions.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Edward 1st
Think of it like a school classroom full of both disruptive children and children who want to learn. That class is always going to be held back by the disruptive children. If you separate that class then those children who want to learn will excel.

Yes, that's true, but what was proposed was the separation before they become disruptive, based on their opinions, and that, to me, it's not the right way of doing things.

That would be punishing people for their opinions and not for their actions.

It's not about punishing people it's about separating people according to beliefs. Just like Muslims don’t go to church and Christians don’t go to mosques.

This is a problem on many forums I visit. You’ve got to wonder what the people in charge want if they just continue to just to sit and watch their disruptive classroom. Their vote is obviously for no progress.

There is an agenda at the top and this is one of the many products of that agenda.




[edit on 24-10-2009 by Edward 1st]

Hi malcram,

I see and understand what you mean however in every thread there will be people who try to boycott what others have to say.

It's not only believers vs non-believers, it's all over the web. Sometimes it even looks like people just want to post negative things to fullfil their own needs.

Maybe it's bc they are scrared of certain possibilities and they don' t even want to give things that have happened to others one single thought.

I believe that in fact this group of people only boycott their own brains till there is nothing more left then narrow minds.

However I seriously doubt that posts of so called ' boycotters' should be deleted. That wouldn't be FREE SPEECH!! And since free speech is a highly good I suggest that we keep it the way it is on ATS.

Although these negative posts do annoy people, see it as something you have to learn, a lesson of some kind and focus on the postive posts.

Luckily there are many serious debaters and many postive posts on ATS!

S&F



[edit on 10/24/2009 by Melyanna Tengwesta]

I don't pay any attention to psuedo-skeptic comments. In my view they are evidence that the debunking campaign is degenerating into nothing more than a few nasty words posted on a message board in the realms of cyberspace. They really only hurt themselves in the long run and accomplish nothing.
All the professional debunkers I've seen in recent years come off as either socially retarded (Bill Nye) or just a big fat schoolyard bully (that idiot on Larry King who tried to debunk Rendlesham forest whose name I refuse to remember). I don't think we're going to see too many new Carl Sagans coming out now.
I say let them do their thing so that at the very least we'll know who they are.
instead of big fat bullys we have nameless, faceless ones.

Originally posted by Edward 1st
It's not about punishing people it's about separating people according to beliefs.

And that, for me, is punishment, seeing that we would be limiting their free movements on ATS.

Just like Muslims don’t go to church and Christians don’t go to mosques.

But in this case it would be like not allowing Muslims or the Christians on a neutral place, like a cinema, just because the Christians or Muslims didn't want them there.

This is a problem on many forums I visit. You’ve got to wonder what the people in charge want if they just continue to just to sit and watch their disruptive classroom. Their vote is obviously for no progress.

That is why I said that we (and in that "we" I mean we, ATS members) should "police" ourselves; if there is someone disrupting a discussion just send an alert.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Yes, but don't expect to be treated in a different way just because your opinion is the same as the majority or not, all people should have the same rights, only when they start abusing them should they have some restrictions, a discussion forum (or anything else) that likes to see itself as being on the "right side" should never be based in restrictions of the membership.

Who expect to be treated in a different way?
I'm personally not proposing anything, I'm just expecting a better 'etiquette' you know. Quite a touchy subject this thread seems.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Yes, that's true, but what was proposed was the separation before they become disruptive, based on their opinions, and that, to me, it's not the right way of doing things.

That would be punishing people for their opinions and not for their actions.

Not quite, I was suggesting that when people simply post straighforward denial, as in, "There is no ET life and we are not being visited by ETs. UFO's are not ET craft. Stop wasting your time with such fantasies", then that is pointless and counterproductive to this forum and will only serve to cause conflict. The very premise of this forum is that there might be ET life and some UFO's might be ET related, and it is here to discuss and investigate that possibility. If people won't even accept that this IS A POSSIBILITY, then they simply don't belong here. I don't think people who post such things have any place in this forum. The contribute nothing positive.

It's not about 'punishment'.

I say again, I think an open mind to the possibility to ET life and ET visitation to earth shold be the minimum requirement for participation in this forum.

There is no useful purpose in posters who do not possess this open-mindedness being here.


[edit on 24-10-2009 by Malcram]

Totally agree, why post or even read the Aliens and UFO's section if you have 100% convinced yourself that they do not, never have and never will exist.

Its amazingly stupid, people should have an open mind, and an open mind doesnt mean you have to believe they do exist, just dont put down the topic before you actual research some information on it.

Same goes with any subject really.