Dollar Collapse, would it be that bad? Maybe it's what we need.

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Back to the original question though, would it be a bad thing or would it force us to build our country back up?

That's hard to say.

Ultimately, if the dollar fails then the 'world currency' option will take front stage and we will be really screwed by manipulating idiots that want to subjugate US citizens to a world government. It will never ever be the same again.

If if the dollar just gets devalued to the point that America can't be relied on to police the planet, support a third of their population in government handouts, pay foriegn labor to produce everything, import everything and export virtually nothing then maybe.....just maybe, after a few decades of hard work we will be back in a decent position.

The problem is that a good portion of Americans live with their hands out crying for their entitlements and the politicians are promising more in return for votes. They won't want to put forth the effort it will take to turn this mess around.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


You bring up valid points but, first off i do not want this to happen. Let me be clear on that.

To answer your other questions well..... (I dont know how to qoute on ATS so i am working off memory) The first few seemed to be dependant on borrowing. If there is no money their is nothing to borrow and kids not going to school will not be behind they will be the norm. And (from my memory the second half had to do with niceties not necesities? The nicesties got us into this as a people. IMO

reply to post by anotherdad


A dollar collapse means less cocky and entitled Americans traveling abroad. So yes to dollar collapse.

reply to post by johnny2127


Wow, my thoughts exactly. You could add that fuel, as an import, would sky rocket and........ well any way I think you pretty much covered the basics!

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by anotherdad

 

A dollar collapse means less cocky and entitled Americans traveling abroad. So yes to dollar collapse.

Wow, you are such an anti American Bitch / bastard, what ever the case may be. I have lived abroad and yes, Americans are not represented well, cant argue that, but I have noticed your comments in other threads so....Wow, you are such an anti American Bitch / bastard, what ever the case may be!

reply to post by badgerprints


Now your hitting at the points i was wanting to be explored, Thanks.

I have the same fear of a "world currency' but with my OP I wanted that left out as it is not in place as of now.

I agree with that if the dollar gets devalued the world can no longer put their hand out to us for help. IMO about time for someone else to step up. echo, echo, echo......

I also agree with the fact that to many americans live with their hand out But......What if there was nothing else to give? Politicians can no longer promise and even if they do no one will recieve.

I disagree that this would take a few decades, maybe one, even two, but wouldn't our children then be better off? Most of us say we would do anything for them.

reply to post by liveandletlive


Freakin awesome!!!!!!!! off topic but awesome! Notice she is not brave enough to even identify her country.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by badgerprints
When the dollar reaches a point where it is cheaper to hire Americans than Mexicans, Indians, Chinese, Indonesians, Malasians and so forth to produce goods then the American companies that have exported all of our jobs might actually start producing in the states again.

They will fight it tooth and nail though.

And this is precisely why I hate capitalism.

Everythng is based around the employer, rather than the employee. It is based on greed and exploitation, the world over. Then we have the president talking tough on immigration as though it matters....what baloney!

Try communism genius. Everything is based on...... my god, and I thought I was negative. You utopians, when you figure out your stupid and you shouldnt have supported socialist ideas, guess what, too late, your someones bitch! What are you, twelve?

reply to post by anotherdad


Sorry OP, forgive me. I got cought off guard by a couple of comments. Please carry on. I will contribute from here on out!

reply to post by anotherdad


Yes the US oil monopoly is the key to understanding the current collapse of the US dollar.
And it has absolutely everything to do with this thread.

Up until very recently, oil could be bought and sold in only two places on the entire planet, London and New York. Terms of trade are VERY STRICTLY US dollars only.

If Japan wants to buy Arabian oil, US dollars only.
If China wanted to buy Iraqi oil, US dollars only.
If France wanted to buy oil from Iran, or Venezuela, US dollars only.

Get the picture ?

Every other nation has to work hard and supply real goods and materials to America in exchange for US dollars, before it can buy any oil. America just creates US dollars out of nothing.

Any nation that tried to break this US dollar monopoly was threatened in various ways, but mostly militarily.

That monopoly has now been totally broken.
For instance China and Russia (now the largest world oil producer) have agreed to trade in their own currencies.

en.rian.ru...

www.independent.co.uk...

The US administration is now absolutely frantic, because bully boy threats of surgical strikes, and threats of invasions no longer frighten other countries as they once did..


While America was able to bully individual countries that threatened the oil monopoly, it cannot now threaten every nation on Earth with military strike, because they are "funding terrorism" or "have weapons of mass destruction" other irrelevant cooked up excuses.

The cat is now out of the bag, and most major nations are now making arrangements to totally abandon the US dollar for international trade.

reply to post by Silver Shadow


A. Off topic.
B. Then can we drill our own oil? We would like to. Please!
c. does drilling for our own supplies make us "evil"?
D. I am off topic too, sorry!

reply to post by liveandletlive


Thanks, and i hope you do. I want honest answers to my OP.

2 line post.

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

You bring up valid points but, first off i do not want this to happen. Let me be clear on that.

To answer your other questions well..... (I dont know how to qoute on ATS so i am working off memory) The first few seemed to be dependant on borrowing. If there is no money their is nothing to borrow and kids not going to school will not be behind they will be the norm. And (from my memory the second half had to do with niceties not necesities? The nicesties got us into this as a people. IMO

Wanting to live a nice healthy life is a priveledge? I am sorry but I totally disagree with you there. Sure a few extras can be cut out of the budget but at the end of the day we are all humans and need a little entertainment, whatever that may be.

Borrowing money from banks is not the problem. The problem is that everyone has been living way beyond their means of existance and thus accumulating more and more debt. Instead of reducing the principle they are paying compounded interest on their out-of-control balance.

reply to post by anotherdad


Well the topic of this thread is "Global dollar collapse".

And the fundamental reason for that collapse is hardly off topic.

America has been plundering the world at gun point for sixty years.
Those days are now over.
And the world will be a much better place for it.

We will actually have free trade between nations, without being taxed at gun point by America.

Originally posted by liveandletlive

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by badgerprints
When the dollar reaches a point where it is cheaper to hire Americans than Mexicans, Indians, Chinese, Indonesians, Malasians and so forth to produce goods then the American companies that have exported all of our jobs might actually start producing in the states again.

They will fight it tooth and nail though.

And this is precisely why I hate capitalism.

Everythng is based around the employer, rather than the employee. It is based on greed and exploitation, the world over. Then we have the president talking tough on immigration as though it matters....what baloney!

Try communism genius. Everything is based on...... my god, and I thought I was negative. You utopians, when you figure out your stupid and you shouldnt have supported socialist ideas, guess what, too late, your someones bitch! What are you, twelve?

I'll support socialism and you can support fascism. Is that ok with you?

Id wager your one of those dumb sheeple who actually think that bailing out banks and corporations is socialism. Nothing could be further from the truth!

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Back to the original question though, would it be a bad thing or would it force us to build our country back up?

That's hard to say.

Ultimately, if the dollar fails then the 'world currency' option will take front stage and we will be really screwed by manipulating idiots that want to subjugate US citizens to a world government. It will never ever be the same again.

If if the dollar just gets devalued to the point that America can't be relied on to police the planet, support a third of their population in government handouts, pay foriegn labor to produce everything, import everything and export virtually nothing then maybe.....just maybe, after a few decades of hard work we will be back in a decent position.

The problem is that a good portion of Americans live with their hands out crying for their entitlements and the politicians are promising more in return for votes. They won't want to put forth the effort it will take to turn this mess around.

You are right and you are wrong.
You have your finger on it as in "Right now Today".
But, where I believe you are wrong is the turn around. The Govt. with the help of over greedy Corps. have left it so that there is nothing to build.

Most Americans would work very hard, if they had something to work at.
Not that it would be easy, but if it did go, and we are left to make it ourselves. That is where the opportunity would come back to start here again with the factories making things for us again.

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by johnny2127

 

First off, no need to apolagize for disagreeing. I'm a big boy and for it. I do however want to bring up that my question was not short sighted you interpreted it that way( I think). I am asking whether or not in the long term it would be better. I agree with all/most of your points short term.

Inflation: because we produce so much off shores: Yes short term would be a huge issue but long term when forced to buy locally would it benefit us?

Layoofs/unemployment: We are almost there now with no solution to the problem.

Food shortages: Yes initially, but see #1.

Int rates rise: If nobody is borrowing and nobody wants to borring and nobody is lending what is the issue. I see short term it stagnates growth but, the question again is long term. To me Borrowing got us into this mess so a reprieve from that would help get us out.

Housing collapse: It will and is going to further collapse. Without jobs people cant pay their mortgage nor can they buy new homes. Don't let the recent spike fool you.

Credit collapse: See above, it's happening. OBTW new employers are also starting to look at credits reports to choose between applicants.

Civil unrest: I agree but hopefully it is issolated to those places who take instead of give. I still believe in the people as a whole to come together and help one another.

And with your last comments, I believe their is a very large population of the U.S. who does not (Have) to have money to be happy they would just alter their spending behavior and shift there priorities. I also have a "knowledge" of macro-economics and i disagree we do have the people, factories, and willingness to work along with the natural supplies to be self sufficent. The fact that we import (to me) is not because we can't provide for ourselfs it's that we try and provide so much to others. If America had to stand on it's own it could and has!

And you are right it would be ugly........................short term.

Well I guess it depends on your definition of 'better off' long term. If all these things happened, millions would die in the US. Yes you are right that many people do not need money to be happy. But these people do need food, clothes, and a roof over their heads.

What you aren't getting is that if this happens, we are in a worse position than we were during the Great Depression. At least during the Depression we manufactured most of our own good. That is not the case now.

So yes, there is the willingness on the part of the American people to work hard. But what you aren't understanding is that the country's manufacturing base and financial picture is so bad, that is not just good old fashioned elbow grease that can fix things if the dollar collapses. In the last it would have been painful, but we could have been self sufficient. But we are completely reliant on other nations now.

Here are some things that we NEED to live that we import the majority of:

- Gas
- Beef
- Wheat
- Refined oil
- Flour
- Linen
- Cotton
- Corn
- White and brown rice
- Steel
- Aluminum
- Etc

Some of those many surprising to you, but even our US corporations that make these raw materials get most of the cheaply overseas before reselling them.

So lets say the dollar collapses, and these things happen. The country is then exceptionally weak. And to rebuild our manufacturing base, build the factories, equip them, train and hire the employees would take decades. What happens if during that time there is a war that needs to be fought? What if there is a terrorist act? What if there is a trade war? What if there is a war for natural resources? We would be so weak at that point we couldn't fight back much. The best example is Germany before WWI. They were one of the largest economies in the world and within a decade were ruined. It was this economic desolation that gave rise to the Nazi party as people were desperate for solutions and someone to blame.

So would it be good long term for the US for the dollar to collapse? Helllllll no. We do need to change our reliance on our nations for goods and borrowing money from them. But we need to do that with the dollar in place. If the dollar collapses, the US would then be like a wounded cow in the woods. Where people want to admit it or not, we have tons of wolves that would love nothing more than the US to be in that position so they could attack in one form or another. The fact the US has let itself get into this situation is both sad and infuriating.

Yes, you are quite right.

All the enemies that America has made will be very pleased to just stand back and watch America self destruct.
And all the very worst damage will be done to Americans by other Americans.

You cannot blame Muslim terrorists, or foreigners for the corruption on Wall street, in the board rooms of American companies, in Congress, in the White House, and in the Law Courts.
It will not be foreigners that round you up in the middle of the night, confiscate your guns, and throw you into a FEMA concentration camp.

The collapse of the US dollar is going to be the least of your problems.

Complete breakdown of law and order, and never ending urban violence is what you should fear more.







[edit on 23/10/2009 by Silver Shadow]

Dollar collapse = Dollars buy a lot less oil = Economy goes tits-up until we can get the oil our economy is built which makes it harder for the dollar to go back up.

There is the
outside possibility that the American businessmen/elites/executiveAristocracy will visit the guillotene as did the Rich-&-Famous during the French Revolution, which was immediately after the USAs Independence movement (with 25% of the people in support)


in the lead up to Revolution, the Colonists in America built their own infrastructure and did not rely on the Empire's Sovereign money or coins...

so too the modern day, dirversified spectrum of 'Americans'
can trade & commerce between ourselves, as did the colonists back then,--- And the manufacturing parts of the economy puzzle will reappear
(without the need of Venture Capitalists demanding Usery)


'Grass Roots' economy building requires that Predator Capitalists "KEEP OUT'


~smile~